United States Dystopian America

You don't even bring Teddy Roosevelt into this, because even the modern GOP cannot shit talk him in favor of Reagan.

The legacy of the Roosevelt's resonates with far more American hearts than Reagan's legacy ever will, and the GOP needs to stop treating Reagan and Friedman as almost the end all, be all of what a modern GOP should be.
Teddy wasn't perfect, but he was a decent president. FDR was a bloody socialist.

Reagan won the Cold War that FDR set us up to lose through his authoritarianism and socialist sympathies.

Until you can understand the basics of human psychology, and how that creates the foundations of economics, there's no point in trying to argue economics with you.
 
Teddy wasn't perfect, but he was a decent president. FDR was a bloody socialist.

Reagan won the Cold War that FDR set us up to lose through his authoritarianism and socialist sympathies.

Until you can understand the basics of human psychology, and how that creates the foundations of economics, there's no point in trying to argue economics with you.
Yes, yes, anyone to the left of Reagan is a socialist, we know this is the song of the tradcons and Reaganites, that they use to pretend that what happened with the USSR at the end of the war was all FDR's fault.

It's not FDR that silenced Patton after the war when he spoke out about the threat of the USSR, nor was it FDR that tied MacArthur's hands in Korea.
 
Yes, yes, anyone to the left of Reagan is a socialist, we know this is the song of the tradcons and Reaganites, that they use to pretend that what happened with the USSR at the end of the war was all FDR's fault.

It's not FDR that silenced Patton after the war when he spoke out about the threat of the USSR, nor was it FDR that tied MacArthur's hands in Korea.
Oh, many others made mistakes after FDR, and there's a long list of traitors in the Democrat party who should have been hung for their crimes, but none of this takes away the fact that FDR set the stage for the Cold War through his malfeasance.
 
FDR was doing damage control on what Wilson had done to the nation, as well as the Dust Bowl, the legacy of Prohibition, racial bullshit pushed by the descendants of ex-Confederates, and international tensions in the pre-war era.
You mean the Democrats...the same party FDR was a member of...and didn't do really anything about segregation.
FDR is why the nation was able to become the power it was in WW2, even if he didn't live to see the end of it.
You mean, he was the one that helped engineer our involvement in WW2 and making sure that we sent our children off to die in a war that could have been prevented.
And Eleanor Roosevelt did a shit load to lay the groundwork for what MLK and Malcolm X accomplished for race relations/getting the Civil Rights Act passed.
Like what?
You don't even bring Teddy Roosevelt into this, because even the modern GOP cannot shit talk him in favor of Reagan.
Yup, because Teddy did one thing really well. He grew the federal government. Just like FDR did later.
The legacy of the Roosevelt's resonates with far more American hearts than Reagan's legacy ever will, and the GOP needs to stop treating Reagan and Friedman as almost the end all, be all of what a modern GOP should be.
Yup, national parks, ie. federalizing more land in the west so those states can't control their own territory. Great job Teddy.
 
You mean the Democrats...the same party FDR was a member of...and didn't do really anything about segregation.

You mean, he was the one that helped engineer our involvement in WW2 and making sure that we sent our children off to die in a war that could have been prevented.

Like what?

Yup, because Teddy did one thing really well. He grew the federal government. Just like FDR did later.

Yup, national parks, ie. federalizing more land in the west so those states can't control their own territory. Great job Teddy.
I mean, teddy did it to prevent it from being destroyed by the people.
The national parks help maintain the great beauty if our nation.
 
I mean, teddy did it to prevent it from being destroyed by the people.
The national parks help maintain the great beauty if our nation.
Sure...and parks are wonderful. That territory should be the states though, not some Federal land. The Fed shouldn't have ANY territory except for national defense and D.C.
 
Sure...and parks are wonderful. That territory should be the states though, not some Federal land. The Fed shouldn't have ANY territory except for national defense and D.C.
Eh, I disagree, because if it us federal land, states can't make laws rather negate aspects of it
Like for instance, California would definitely destroy any national parks they have if they could to use for some bizarre thing.
It being federal land allows for states not to make changes or destroy them easier
 
Eh, I disagree, because if it us federal land, states can't make laws rather negate aspects of it
Like for instance, California would definitely destroy any national parks they have if they could to use for some bizarre thing.
It being federal land allows for states not to make changes or destroy them easier
You're missing the point, and falling for one of the Federal government's modern myths, that it is a SUPERIOR government to the State governments.

Constitutionally speaking, the Federal Government is subservient to the State governments, it exists to create a single point of contact in regards to foreign affairs, national defense, and to act as a neutral third party arbiter between the States. When it comes to land use States should have complete and final say on land use within their territory, nothing in the US Constitution grants the Federal government the power to set aside such large swaths of land.

Further, your claim that States would fail to preserve their own natural beauty and resources without the Federal government to do so is entirely bunk because, well, we actually have some solid data on that. You see, Federal Land is not distributed evenly in the county, and in fact it ranges WILDLY:
1715269715735.png

Would you say that New York and Maine have not preserved their natural regions compared to Nevada? Has Tennessee preserved less natural beauty and resources than Alaska (in proportion to the State's side obviously)? Are Iowa, Nebraska, and Kansas somehow worse off than Oregon, Idaho, and Arizona? Is Texas somehow worse off than California?

Yeah, sorry, this idea that the Federal Parks and land preservation is necessary and good just doesn't hold up with actual state level results, and it's also led to major issues with States being able to control their own economic development and in many cases allowed the Federal government to pick winners and losers by how they allow resource development to happen on Federal land, which ends up being weaponized by the Federal government to favor States that ideologically align with the administration and punish states that do not.
 
You're missing the point, and falling for one of the Federal government's modern myths, that it is a SUPERIOR government to the State governments.

Constitutionally speaking, the Federal Government is subservient to the State governments, it exists to create a single point of contact in regards to foreign affairs, national defense, and to act as a neutral third party arbiter between the States. When it comes to land use States should have complete and final say on land use within their territory, nothing in the US Constitution grants the Federal government the power to set aside such large swaths of land.

Further, your claim that States would fail to preserve their own natural beauty and resources without the Federal government to do so is entirely bunk because, well, we actually have some solid data on that. You see, Federal Land is not distributed evenly in the county, and in fact it ranges WILDLY:
View attachment 1937

Would you say that New York and Maine have not preserved their natural regions compared to Nevada? Has Tennessee preserved less natural beauty and resources than Alaska (in proportion to the State's side obviously)? Are Iowa, Nebraska, and Kansas somehow worse off than Oregon, Idaho, and Arizona? Is Texas somehow worse off than California?

Yeah, sorry, this idea that the Federal Parks and land preservation is necessary and good just doesn't hold up with actual state level results, and it's also led to major issues with States being able to control their own economic development and in many cases allowed the Federal government to pick winners and losers by how they allow resource development to happen on Federal land, which ends up being weaponized by the Federal government to favor States that ideologically align with the administration and punish states that do not.
I mean, I see your point.
Though, the Federal land aspect also includes things like the military bases and the like.
So it also can make results look heavily inflated economically as well.

State and national parks often very heavily, and some states maintaining thiers better then others.

National parks should at least be treated equally, especially due to percentage of visitation they have based upon popularity.
 
You're missing the point, and falling for one of the Federal government's modern myths, that it is a SUPERIOR government to the State governments.

Constitutionally speaking, the Federal Government is subservient to the State governments, it exists to create a single point of contact in regards to foreign affairs, national defense, and to act as a neutral third party arbiter between the States. When it comes to land use States should have complete and final say on land use within their territory, nothing in the US Constitution grants the Federal government the power to set aside such large swaths of land.

Further, your claim that States would fail to preserve their own natural beauty and resources without the Federal government to do so is entirely bunk because, well, we actually have some solid data on that. You see, Federal Land is not distributed evenly in the county, and in fact it ranges WILDLY:
View attachment 1937

Would you say that New York and Maine have not preserved their natural regions compared to Nevada? Has Tennessee preserved less natural beauty and resources than Alaska (in proportion to the State's side obviously)? Are Iowa, Nebraska, and Kansas somehow worse off than Oregon, Idaho, and Arizona? Is Texas somehow worse off than California?

Yeah, sorry, this idea that the Federal Parks and land preservation is necessary and good just doesn't hold up with actual state level results, and it's also led to major issues with States being able to control their own economic development and in many cases allowed the Federal government to pick winners and losers by how they allow resource development to happen on Federal land, which ends up being weaponized by the Federal government to favor States that ideologically align with the administration and punish states that do not.
And where the fuck are the states going to get the funds to maintain all those federal lands to the same degree?

The Feds can barely keep the funding up to necessary levels for most of the national parks, how in the world are the states going to be able to do any better with a smaller tax base to work with?
 
I mean, I see your point.
Though, the Federal land aspect also includes things like the military bases and the like.
So it also can make results look heavily inflated economically as well.

State and national parks often very heavily, and some states maintaining thiers better then others.

National parks should at least be treated equally, especially due to percentage of visitation they have based upon popularity.
Military bases are relatively small in actual land use. I mean, you can see on the map I posted even places with lots of military based like Virginia barely breech 10%.

And where the fuck are the states going to get the funds to maintain all those federal lands to the same degree?

The Feds can barely keep the funding up to necessary levels for most of the national parks, how in the world are the states going to be able to do any better with a smaller tax base to work with?
The East Coast and central US States seem to handle it just fine and maybe, just maybe, there is to much land held as parkland that can and should be privatized? Heck, much of the land in the US West has been effectively bait and switched by the Federal government, it was originally set aside as reserved meant for economic development for things like long term lumbering and strategic resource reserves MEANT to be tapped into when existing reserves ran low, and has now been turned into untouchable land thanks to the systemic ideological capture of the Federal bureaucracy by radical greens.
 
The East Coast and central US States seem to handle it just fine and maybe, just maybe, there is to much land held as parkland that can and should be privatized? Heck, much of the land in the US West has been effectively bait and switched by the Federal government, it was originally set aside as reserved meant for economic development for things like long term lumbering and strategic resource reserves MEANT to be tapped into when existing reserves ran low, and has now been turned into untouchable land thanks to the systemic ideological capture of the Federal bureaucracy by radical greens.
Have you considered that the East Coast should not be seen as an example of good environmental practices or urban development that doesn't fuck most of the local ecosystem? Have you considered the national parks and lands out west are so big because the East Coast has barely any wild spaces left, and destroyed most of the natural predators that are protected in national parks?

Have you considered that maybe we need those parks to be so big so some species and critical habitats aren't easily fucked over by people just out for another mountain lodge or timber operation in old growth forests? Or because the land is an economic engine itself to the surrounding communities, that would disappear if it could be bought out enmasse by someone like Steve Jobs or Zuckerberg?

Have you considered that much of the Federal land isn't park or even open to the public, but are military bases and installations vital for national security (supposedly), and even Indian reservations (reservations count as Federal land for those numbers)?

Your viewpoint is a farce to people who actually understand why so much land out west is Federally owned, and why it is better that way.
No country needs national parks. They are just a luxury project for leftist aristocrats.
...well, congrats on convincing me those who say you are just a troll pretending to be a strawman of the Right by staking out ridiculous positions are actually right.

I'm sorry I defended you as an honest debater instead of strawman troll.
 
..well, congrats on convincing me those who say you are just a troll pretending to be a strawman of the Right by staking out ridiculous positions are actually right.

I'm sorry I defended you as an honest debater instead of strawman troll.
Teddy Roosevelt literally created them as hunting grounds.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boone_and_Crockett_Club

I am not an ideological person, just a very practical one.
 
Teddy Roosevelt literally created them as hunting grounds.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boone_and_Crockett_Club

I am not an ideological person, just a very practical one.
Except he didn't, because the Parks came about to preserve landscapes as well.

See, I've actually been educated in the history of the National Parks, and the debates about how they came to be, and how different parks ended up being made.

I know the debates between John Muir (or Muir Woods fame) and Teddy Roosevelt, I know the history of how it was Lincoln who first got public lands issues going (even if he didn't live to see it grow).

You're a troll who's here to stake out ridiculous positions while pretending to be a Reaganite, to make the Right look even worse, and not actually debate or interact honestly.
 
Military bases are relatively small in actual land use. I mean, you can see on the map I posted even places with lots of military based like Virginia barely breech 10%.
But...the bases I'm those areas are tiny.
Now, compare that to JBER in Alaska, JBSA in Texas, Fort Bliss, Fort Moore, Fort Liberty even.

And then you have places like NTC in Cali at Fort erwin, and 29 Palms, and The Marine boot camp base out there...

Or in New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada you have all the large open ranges used for various testing.
Like White Sands, Nellis, Heachuca.
Colorado with the large amount of bases there, that take up a lot.

Most of the bases I mentioned are Army, and not including any and all federal properties for DoE, or other branches of the DoD
 
No country needs national parks. They are just a luxury project for leftist aristocrats.

So where is this guy supposed to live then?
85472d35ae3e1815d60a1bd1314b6e79--rhino-pictures-wildlife-protection.jpg


Or these?
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Or this cute creature?
lrg-2618-adult_black-backed_jackal__masai_mara__kenya.jpg


Or this big ugly one?
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Or this humble creature?
126332.jpg
 

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