edgeworthy
Well-known member
Even if not, he can just throw him all the way back too Mount Doom!
Lord of the Rings Hulk smash Orcs!
- Thread starter Tyzuris
- Start date
Sauron or Saran could put a spell over his mind and so perhaps control him or maybe devise someway of killing him before he can hulk out or perhaps pierce him with a morgul blade and so destroy him, but Sauron is too far in the East and I doubt would risk such battle (he thought the One might be in Gondor at this time or nearing it) and Saruman is not only too far west, but much of his power was stripped from him with the sundering of his staff and being caste from his order. He would not dare to go, even if he did not fear Sauron's wrath.
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
Actually, it is pointed quite clearly that swords that hit the Nazgul break. Eowyn was only able to kill the Witch King because Merry's magical blade had cut off his spells.
Reason why fire and water harm them is, well:
1) they don't actually harm them
2) ringwraiths need cloaks to interact with the living
That being said, they do dislike both, likely because both fire and water represent cleansing.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
You're stating a piece of fanon as if it were fact here. The debate as to whether Merry's blade was actually required or not has been had a thousand times over the years and will likely continue, with both sides having their own preferred snippets of Tolkien's writing to support it.
It's also not stated that swords that hit the Nazgul break. It's very specifically limited to the Witch King.
"Look!" he cried; and stooping he lifted from the ground a black cloak that had lain hidden by the darkness. A foot above the lower hem there was a slash. "This was the stroke of Frodo's sword," he said. "The only hurt it did to his enemy, I fear: for it is unharmed, but all blades perish that pierce that dreadful King. More deadly to him was the name of Elbereth."
If you're going to go back to the books I'll note you've utterly hosed the Nazgul, they're quite weak there. To Quote Tolkien Himself in letter 210, where he was complaining about a movie script that made them too strong:
[The Black Riders'] peril is almost entirely due to the unreasoning fear which they inspire (like ghosts). They have no great physical power against the fearless; but what they have, and the fear that they inspire, is enormously increased in darkness. The Witch-king, their leader, is more powerful in all ways than the others; but he must not yet be raised to the stature of Vol. III. There, put in command by Sauron, he is given an added demonic force. But even in the Battle of the Pelennor, the darkness had only just broken.
The notion that they dislike fire due to cleansing is, again, fanon you're putting forward as fact. Heck, the Nazgul use fire themselves, not a likely action if they dislike it for its symbolic cleansing so much. It appears much more likely from the texts that they dislike fire because it makes the area around them brighter and their power is enormously increased in darkness.
"Old fool!" he said. "Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!" And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.
The idea that Nazgul fear water because of cleansing is not only false, it betrays a sad lack of actual Tolkien Knowledge.
"Now to water had that Ainu whom the Elves call Ulmo turned his thought, and of all most deeply was he instructed by Ilúvatar in music. ... Ulmo answered [Eru Ilúvatar]: 'Truly, Water is become now fairer than my heart imagined ...".
"... he governs the flowing of all waters, and the ebbing, the courses of all rivers and the replenishment of springs ... In the deep places he gives thought to music great and terrible; and the echo of that music runs through all the veins of the world in sorrow and in joy. ... thus it was by the power of Ulmo that even under the darkness of Melkor life coursed still through many secret lodes, and the Earth did not die ...".
"... at no time ever did Morgoth essay to build ships or to make war by sea. Water all his servants shunned, and to the sea none would willingly go nigh, save in dire need."
They feared water because Ulmo was governing the water, and Ulmo was the third most powerful Valar and also the friendliest to the mortal races of Middle Earth. Even Morgoth himself never dared build a ship or try to cross water because Ulmo would ruin his shit if he tried. No servant of Morgoth wanted to cross water for fear of Ulmo. It had jack to do with "cleansing."
Of course, that's mostly moot because the Hulk isn't going to use fire, water, or swords, he's going to grab the Nazgul and fold them up like origami with his bare hands. Their ability to cause fear isn't going to scare him, his rage is more likely to damage them back. That the Nazgul have some physical form and feel pain is apparent from numerous texts, they wouldn't have sinews that could be cut, as happens in-story, nor would being hit slow them down if they felt no pain. They might survive to reform but that won't actually do them any good at the moment, it just means Hulk is going to smash them again later if they don't find a hole to crawl into.
"Stupid eyeball monster throw Halloween men at Hulk...HULK RIP EYEBALL MONSTER IN HALF!"
"Hulk is master of ring now..."
edit- Sauron from the novels could probably mentally subvert movie Hulk, and I only say probably because his psyche seems to take mental intrusions as if they're steroids if how he reacted to what Wanda did is any indication.
He should have more than enough power...
Comic Hulk? LOOOOL not even Charles Xavier can fuck with that and he makes Sauron look like a rank amateur.
It probably wasn't required in the Doom of the WitchKing"/Fate sense in that Merry wasn't human and Eowyn lacked a penis. So he was pretty much boned going into that fight.
But the blade being magically empowered to fuck up ghost monsters and him specifically certainly made it easier.
At least that's how I took it.
"Hulk is master of ring now..."
edit- Sauron from the novels could probably mentally subvert movie Hulk, and I only say probably because his psyche seems to take mental intrusions as if they're steroids if how he reacted to what Wanda did is any indication.
He should have more than enough power...
Comic Hulk? LOOOOL not even Charles Xavier can fuck with that and he makes Sauron look like a rank amateur.
It probably wasn't required in the Doom of the WitchKing"/Fate sense in that Merry wasn't human and Eowyn lacked a penis. So he was pretty much boned going into that fight.
But the blade being magically empowered to fuck up ghost monsters and him specifically certainly made it easier.
At least that's how I took it.
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KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
honestly, I see a Hulk vs Sauron fight going down like this. Hulk and Sauron are about the same height.
Well, it depends on if you consider Movie Hulk resistant to telepathy or not. I personally think it's a crapshoot. But if you go that route Sauron has enough to do it to MCU Hulk.
Though not from the comics. He'd laugh off any mental assault from anything in middle Earth.
KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
I was looking at Comic Hulk. Even when he was savage hulk mental assault meant jack squat
Hulk would hit Smaug so hard. The Dragon would literally shit himself. Bowel emptying soiling we are talking about here.
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Oh no, fuck no..yeah the only reason why I give big S the win is because this is MCU Hulk. Sauron isn't doing a damn thing to Any version of the comic Hulk's mind.
Comic Hulk would fucking belt his ass so hard he'd ricochet off the hull of Vingilótë
A better match up would be Sauron from the books/silmarillion in the MCU.
As while the top tiers like Wanda, Ancient One, Strange. Odin, Hela, Surtur, Ego and Thanos would roll his ass in terms of raw power. No one in that setting quite has his patience, his mental powers and his scientific acumen and aptitude for engineering and learning unconventional shit would make him a big problem of a very different sort.
Plus someone like that learning MCU magic would be pretty damn terrifying. Granted he'd probably go the schemer route any way. But it'd be interesting because he's got that weird mix of talents, abilities and character strength to eventually punch well above his weight class.
As while the top tiers like Wanda, Ancient One, Strange. Odin, Hela, Surtur, Ego and Thanos would roll his ass in terms of raw power. No one in that setting quite has his patience, his mental powers and his scientific acumen and aptitude for engineering and learning unconventional shit would make him a big problem of a very different sort.
Plus someone like that learning MCU magic would be pretty damn terrifying. Granted he'd probably go the schemer route any way. But it'd be interesting because he's got that weird mix of talents, abilities and character strength to eventually punch well above his weight class.
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Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
In Croatian translation, text states basically that the sword "broke the sinews that bound flesh to will". Maybe Tolkien's original is different, I'll have to look it up.
Buba
A total creep
Off topic - for unintended humour do a search for "bad swedish LOTR translation". In places it is said to be "Backstroke of the West" level.
That's about it.
The debate to me was pointless because it was a combination of the magical weapon, the non human and the chick all coming together to do him in.
The blade certainly had an impact but it was one of three factors and the passage seems to make a point to stress that in the original English and in Spanish.
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Eowyn is a magical girl.
Though in the second edition I own it was less "undead sinews" which is very Robert E Howard and more "and the blade forged with the knowledge of the Westernese unmade the myriad spells that bound his unnatural body. Having fulfilled its purpose, it was consumed"
Which is interesting in that it seems to imply that while the nine rings of power were what began their descent into Wraithdom, a lot of that journey was done by the Nazgul to themselves. Compelled no doubt by the negative attributes brought out by the Rings.
Kinda fucking horrifying for a guy who thought Pulp fantasy was too blue collar for the folks.
Which is interesting in that it seems to imply that while the nine rings of power were what began their descent into Wraithdom, a lot of that journey was done by the Nazgul to themselves. Compelled no doubt by the negative attributes brought out by the Rings.
Kinda fucking horrifying for a guy who thought Pulp fantasy was too blue collar for the folks.