Novamarines strike force at Battle of Geonosis.

[Tyzuris]

Assume a battle barge carrying three companies of Novamarines and detachments from the 1st and 10th companies totaling roughly 400 Novamarines + HQ + a few dozen specialists like Chaplains, Librarians, Apothecaries and Techmarines (and assume this is post-Primaris introduction so there are both Firstborn and Primaris Marines in this force) comes to orbit of Geonosis and replaces the Clone Troopers in the Battle of Geonosis.

They have a goal of saving the Jedi and taking out the political and military leadership of CIS before they have a chance of escaping.

And assume a bonus goal but not a necessary one which includes Novamarines capturing CIS leaders instead of eliminating them.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Hmm it's interesting. Four hundred Space Marines, but especially with the support of Librarians and Techmarines and the higher level Sergeants and Captains and the like could be a pretty credible threat to the Confederacy Leadership but I don't see them as being able to obviously win the War in the same manner that the Clone Army was. There were likely tens of thousands of battledroids on Geonosis and even four hundred Space Marines can't fight a war against all of them.

But combined with over two hundred Jedi, I think they could definitely take out the Arena and with the Jetpacks and Jedi leaping skills as well as precognition and Librarian Psyker senses, perhaps they could actually cut off and eliminate much of the CIS leadership before they can escape the immediate vicinity. Keep in mind in the original film a trio of gunships showed up to evacuate the Jedi trapped on the arena floor and then took them to the Marshaling Area.

Here, if they aren't planning on taking the surface planet, the Space Marines won't have to go to some "Marshaling Area." They'd show up in the Arena and begin smashing, not even giving time for the CIS to escape. And four hundred Space Marines plus other assets is far more firepower to bring to the Arena then three gunships with clonetroopers. Plus you still have multiple Jedi Masters including Yoda and Mace Windu along with the other named characters and Librarians/Captains who can take on Count Dooku who would be the main martial threat amongst the CIS leadership. The rest of them would likely be pushovers to capture or kill.

 

[Scooby Doo]

They can save the Jedi but they're not winning the battle even if they're a hundred times better than a Clone Commando, there were billions of battle droids in the first Battle of Geonosis, blasters WILL chip away at Spacemarine armor very quickly at those quantities.

The Spacemarines as a collective go down after killing a couple hundred thousand or so battle droids after running out of ammo and resorting to melee combat.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

The Space Marine Force absolutely smashes everything in the immediate vicinity of the Jedi, capture or kill the CIS leadership, then bug out when the millions of battle droids come calling.

You may even see dedicated HK squads go after the Droid Control ships after teleporting into them to plant charges on their power plants. Others would target points of vulnerability. Both of these actions would be done to sow confusion and prevent all droids from rallying to a single point.

 

[Buba]

1 - SM win, as they know what they are doing, unlike whatever passes as leadership among the Jedi or CIS. They will use nukes/other WMD;
2 - how long before the SM massacre the xenos unlicensed psyker freaks which are the Jedi Order?

 

[Navarro]

They can save the Jedi but they're not winning the battle even if they're a hundred times better than a Clone Commando, there were billions of battle droids in the first Battle of Geonosis, blasters WILL chip away at Spacemarine armor very quickly at those quantities.

The Spacemarines as a collective go down after killing a couple hundred thousand or so battle droids after running out of ammo and resorting to melee combat.

SM don't really do attrition tho, a mission profile like taking out the CIS leadership is their bread and butter. Orbital strikes would be used against the droid factories/staging areas if possible.

If all else fails they can take out the leadership, evacuate the Jedi and their own guys and Exterminatus the planet. Flawless victory.

 

[Scooby Doo]

SM don't really do attrition tho, a mission profile like taking out the CIS leadership is their bread and butter. Orbital strikes would be used against the droid factories/staging areas if possible.

If all else fails they can take out the leadership, evacuate the Jedi and their own guys and Exterminatus the planet. Flawless victory.

I know but it's not something they'd be able to do under their circumstances because there's literally droids everywhere (again canonically there's billions not millions, billions with a B as in boy)

And the Separatist leadership is going to split on various directions forcing the Spacemarines to also separate at least into three groups.

Dooku, Poggle, Commandships. And even with Librarian support unless I'm missing something none of them have the stamina to make a huge difference and apparently using the teleportation ability is a one time per battle sort of deal since it exhausts them to the point they can't use it again in 12 hours.


They could maybe get a few Separatist leaders but they're not getting all of them or even Poggle, the caverns in Geonosis are way too small for the Spacemarines to fit it, the caverns will collapse and they'd get buried underneath

Edit: If the Spacemarines are replacing the Clones the most they'd get is a team of ships for this composition (400) so 4 Strike Cruisers isn't going to be enough to wipe out Geonosis either.

 

[Husky_Khan]

A surgical strike and being fast is the best way to achieve mission success. I agree they might not get most of the leadership but if they can establish a cordon around the arena they should get quite a few. The arena seemed somewhat isolated from the rest of the surface forces.

I don't think the Battle Barge can take on whatever Separatist Navy Assets are in system. The Republic brought in a pretty hefty fleet.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

And the Separatist leadership is going to split on various directions forcing the Spacemarines to also separate at least into three groups.

This will not bother the SM. Single squads are often tasked to destroy a warship by demo charge.

unless I'm missing something none of them have the stamina to make a huge difference

SM can go for days if not weeks without rest.

using the teleportation ability is a one time per battle sort of deal since it exhausts them to the point they can't use it again in 12 hours.

Nope, insertion and extraction at the bare minimum. More if the techmarines are on their game, and very likely since the Warp is going to be pretty stable in SW'verse.

They could maybe get a few Separatist leaders but they're not getting all of them or even Poggle, the caverns in Geonosis are way too small for the Spacemarines to fit it, the caverns will collapse and they'd get buried underneath

Poggle is about the only one I can see getting away.

 

[Scooby Doo]

This will not bother the SM. Single squads are often tasked to destroy a warship by demo charge.

And how exactly are they getting into and out of a ship? It's not exactly a clear path towards it

SM can go for days if not weeks without rest.

The literal codex for Spacemarines say Librarians need 12 hours of rest before they can use their teleportation ability again. With only a dozen Librarian Spacemarines that's 6 teleportations tops, nowhere near enough to do this hit and run that you think they can.

Geonosis objectives are in multiple areas each hundreds of kilometers apart with millions of enemies in between.

Nope, insertion and extraction at the bare minimum.

Teleportation isn't viable and they don't have aerial superiority, are they just gonna walk their way to their objectives?

More if the techmarines are on their game, and very likely since the Warp is going to be pretty stable in SW'verse.

I'm not seeing anything in the Tech marine arsenal involving teleportation, and a dozen Librarians don't have the juice to destroy millions with their powers, at best thousands of Battle droids

Poggle is about the only one I can see getting away.

He would definitely get away there's literally no way for the Spacemarines to physically reach him. It's like saying a grown ass man can fit inside the hole of a needle.

 

[Scooby Doo]

A surgical strike and being fast is the best way to achieve mission success. I agree they might not get most of the leadership but if they can establish a cordon around the arena they should get quite a few. The arena seemed somewhat isolated from the rest of the surface forces.

I don't think the Battle Barge can take on whatever Separatist Navy Assets are in system. The Republic brought in a pretty hefty fleet.

Arena is the worse place tbh, there are droid Factories that were connected there and according to the expanded material those were producing hundreds of thousands (likely a day) they'd quickly overwhelm the Spacemarines through chip damage.


Battle Droid blasters contrary to popular belief aren't entirely ass they should be roughly on par with a las rifle or slightly stronger setting of a las rifle.


According to BFII the E5 has a fire rate of 300 rpm, according to the Clone Wars a single Separatist squad has the following composition

48 B1 Battle droids (Not counting Superbattledroids), that's gonna be roughly 205 blaster bolts a second even with 50% accuracy that's 102.

How many blaster bolts can a Spacemarine realistically take without low-balling blasters? 5 seconds, 10 seconds, a minute worth? A minute would literally be a thousand blaster bolts striking them surely that'd have compromised their armor and vital organs by then?


What about the Spacemarine weapons? The Spacemarines carry 30 rounds on their bolter, how many magazines will a Spacemarine realistically carry, 10-20 magazines?

Let's say 20 magazines x 30 bullets so 600 rounds per Spacemarines. Each individual droid factory (likely hundreds of factories) on Geonosis can build between 66 (lowest end) to 1,200 an hour (highest end) and the maximum amount of ammo the Spacemarines will realistically have (240,000 rounds) would only allow them to be able to destroy around quarter million droids before resorting to melee.


And the droids will be able to literally build faster than the Spacemarines could destroy the droids. And without aerial superiority all the drop ships are getting shot down. So the Spacemarines will have to be extremely frugile with their Librarians as they'd be their only way to leave the surface alive.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Arena is the worse place tbh, there are droid Factories that were connected there and according to the expanded material those were producing hundreds of thousands (likely a day) they'd quickly overwhelm the Spacemarines through chip damage.

The thing is, I can't watch it now but IIRC the ships landed in the arena, rescued the remaining Jedi and then flew away down a mountain to a nearby marshalling area where the Republic forces them attacked the Separatists assembling in a direction AWAY from the Arena. It then cits back to the emptied arena with little Boba having a moment.

That leads me to the implications that while what you said might be true, for whatever reason the Droids weren't flooding the arena at that moment. If they were they could've attacked the Republic forces from both sides including THE HIGH GROUND (tm).

But I could be misremembering.

 

[Scooby Doo]

The thing is, I can't watch it now but IIRC the ships landed in the arena, rescued the remaining Jedi and then flew away down a mountain to a nearby marshalling area where the Republic forces them attacked the Separatists assembling in a direction AWAY from the Arena. It then cits back to the emptied arena with little Boba having a moment.

That leads me to the implications that while what you said might be true, for whatever reason the Droids weren't flooding the arena at that moment. If they were they could've attacked the Republic forces from both sides including THE HIGH GROUND (tm).

But I could be misremembering.

Mostly correct, the difference being is that the Separatists ordered a full retreat with the droids to cover their escape because the Republic secured aerial superiority.


In this case there's 1 ship and just 400 infantry. The Separatist aren't going to panic as much because the force is so ludicrously tiny with no armored support and at best a handful of drop ships that'll get immediately swarmed. The Spacemarines wouldn't even be able to capture Dooku because the amount of available Separatist fighters will be able to shoot down the handful sent to capture Dooku.

In the Battle of Geonosis there was 1,600 LAAT gunships trying up Separatist fighters, here a Battlebarge is only gonna have at most a handful or dozen gunships total. Overall they can commit to swarming any any Jedi that tries to rush head on will die, there only option honestly is to flee immediately after saving the Jedi then exterminatus the planet, they might get lucky and capture a few minor separatist leaders but anyone major is going to be too far deep to succeed.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

They can save the Jedi but they're not winning the battle even if they're a hundred times better than a Clone Commando, there were billions of battle droids in the first Battle of Geonosis, blasters WILL chip away at Spacemarine armor very quickly at those quantities.

The Spacemarines as a collective go down after killing a couple hundred thousand or so battle droids after running out of ammo and resorting to melee combat.

Space Marine chapters regularly take on worse odds and win in cannon.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Space Marine chapters regularly take on worse odds and win in cannon.

No Spacemarine Chapters factually don't regularly win 1:1,000,000 odds without extensive Naval support and assistance from the Guard.


On their own they have won 1:100 odds pretty often when under favorable circumstances but this is usually at a great cost (Heavy casualties ranging from half their forces to most killed). Spacemarine chapters on their own have never won a million to one odds in unfavorable circumstances. This is probably the worst possible circumstances for them and they don't even have a main character helping them lol, I'm being generous enough to say they can escape.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Space Marine chapters regularly take on worse odds and win in cannon.

Mostly b/c they won't just form a British gunline and walk at the enemy across open terrain.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Mostly b/c they won't just form a British gunline and walk at the enemy across open terrain.

Vast majority of media have Spacemarine tactics being just run straight up to the enemy guns blazing (or just standing out in the open without cover and hope the enemy misses), which only works when you can outank or withstand the attrition.


British gun line tactic in this scenario trumps the stone age tactic of running towards the enemy in a broken meat waves

 

[Carrot of Truth]

I think regular battle droids might as well not even exist for this because their weapons aren't going to be able to penetrate Space Marine armor.

 

[Scooby Doo]

I think regular battle droids might as well not even exist for this because their weapons aren't going to be able to penetrate Space Marine armor.

Nah mass las rifle fire canonically has killed Chaos Marines, E-5 blasters should be comparable.

 

[Agent23]

The nova marines go through the stupid bit making locusts and their toys like a hot knife through butter.