Russian Invasion of Ukraine 2022

[Marduk]

Seems like Ukraine political corruption didn't magically disappear on February 24, 2022 and the millions of dollars given to Kharkhiv's corruptocrats to build defenses instead went to the laundromat, hence why the Russians just walked over the border.

Ukrainian Corruption Center reports northern border defense funds were diverted to fake companies, letting Russians walk right across border in new Kharkiv offensive

It has been reported that the Russian military was able to walk into northern Ukraine due to defense systems missing this past week.

humanevents.com

Of course on the flipside the Kremlin squandered an opportunity to possibly REALLY change the course of the war from slowly taking territory in an enormously costly manner to instead being in field artillery range of Kharkhiv and thus forcing some major issues.

And the third side of it was that Ukraine technically could have prevented opening this front overall by shooting up the staging areas and logistical support of it, but "line on map" retarded restrictions prevent it to this day.

This sort of shit makes it more easier to fight Russian forces when they have some "tail" on Ukrainian territory, so that it can be hit properly.
Holding on to a defensive right on the border while the other side could have fire and logistical support from Russian territory where it can't be hit with Ukraine's best weapons is... suboptimal.

 

[paulobrito]

And the third side of it was that Ukraine technically could have prevented opening this front overall by shooting up the staging areas and logistical support of it, but "line on map" retarded restrictions prevent it to this day.

This sort of shit makes it more easier to fight Russian forces when they have some "tail" on Ukrainian territory, so that it can be hit properly.
Holding on to a defensive right on the border while the other side could have fire and logistical support from Russian territory where it can't be hit with Ukraine's best weapons is... suboptimal.

The counterpoint to that is that by these rules the massive logistical/repair of Ukrainian forces done in NATO territory can also be fair game. And we all know the consequences of that. Nobody really wants that type of escalation, only the cockroaches win that game.

 

[Marduk]

The counterpoint to that is that by these rules the massive logistical/repair of Ukrainian forces done in NATO territory can also be fair game.

Only in the heads of retarded de-escalationists.
Did Soviet Union get attacked by South Vietnam for providing weapons to North Vietnam without any such geographic restrictions?
Did PRC get bombed by USA for not just providing similar support to NK but also actively taking part in the war? That was when PRC didn't even have nukes, a B-47 could have nuked Beijing and they could have done jack shit about it.
If Russia wants to dare pick a fight with NATO by attacking its territory, excuses do not matter, a fight it is.
Conversely if they don't want to pick such a fight, there will be no fight even if those restrictions are demonstratively torn apart and set on fire on national TV.

And we all know the consequences of that.

If you "know", then i "know" too, and we know different things, so at least one of us has to be wrong.
This "knowledge" is an arbitrarily set up pseudofact, that of course Russians will support with their shovel of bullshit just because of how beneficial its existence is to them.

Nobody really wants that type of escalation, only the cockroaches win that game.

If Russia doesn't want it, then the ball would be in its court and there would be no escalation.

 

[Zachowon]

The counterpoint to that is that by these rules the massive logistical/repair of Ukrainian forces done in NATO territory can also be fair game. And we all know the consequences of that. Nobody really wants that type of escalation, only the cockroaches win that game.

Except Finland, UK, and I think even Poland said thier weapons are free to use on Russian soil.
So point moot.

 

[paulobrito]

Except Finland, UK, and I think even Poland said thier weapons are free to use on Russian soil.
So point moot.

Oh right, and then Russia says Russian weapons are free to be used in NATO territory. Same logic.
Face it - Weapons, money, planning, and intelligence (and even a growing number of soldiers) are NATO's, the only missing thing is the flags. And even that is right now in discussion by the idiots that 'govern' us. Some people really want to be nuke hit.

 

[Marduk]

Oh right, and then Russia says Russian weapons are free to be used in NATO territory. Same logic.

Did Soviet Union get bombed by every country against territory of which Soviet Union allowed its weapons to be used against?
Not the same logic because that means plain, normal war between NATO and Russia.
If Russia starts attacking NATO over this excuse, it means NATO armies attack Russia, and it will not end well for Russia.

Face it - Weapons, money, planning, and intelligence (and even a growing number of soldiers) are NATO's, the only missing thing is the flags.

So Cold War all over again, we know how it worked, why do you pretend that you don't.
This historical experience means you can get quite cheeky with support for a proxy state, yet direct war still doesn't happen, even if you don't make up retarded self-restrictions.
Stop navel gazing like certain idiots love to and look what "customary rules" were followed by the Soviet side.

Paraphrasing Vietnam, if USA wanted to be cheeky, there would be US "instructors" in Ukraine flying F-35's, and there still would be no WW3 - after all, in Vietnam there were Mig-21 pilots (very modern plane back then, less than 10 year old at the time) speaking suspiciously good Russian flying combat missions against USAF aircraft.

And even that is right now in discussion by the idiots that 'govern' us. Some people really want to be nuke hit.

Some people really want retarded doormat policy towards Russia.

 

[Bacle]

Oh right, and then Russia says Russian weapons are free to be used in NATO territory. Same logic.
Face it - Weapons, money, planning, and intelligence (and even a growing number of soldiers) are NATO's, the only missing thing is the flags. And even that is right now in discussion by the idiots that 'govern' us. Some people really want to be nuke hit.

Yes, one Mr. Putin and his circle definitely are asking to eat a pre-emptive nuke with their behavior.

If Russia wants to keep threatening nukes over Ukraine, best be prepared to eat a nuke or a dozen once the west finds it's balls and decides to make Russia actually have reason to fear the West for the rest of history.

Russia keeps forgetting the west has nukes too, and a populace of disillusioned and angry youth who know Russia is our enemy, and probably will be for the rest of time, or till the Russian Federation is broken up.

Go ahead, test us, see what happens when the west stops caring about Russian threats, and instead decides to END Russian threats.

How many embassies and consulates does Moscow have that angry westerners can target without leaving their home nations, how many Putin supporting Russian tourists could be arrested and used as leverage against Moscow they same way Moscow tries shit, how many Russian business have everything they own outside Russia confiscated and used to fund Ukraine?

Russia is far more vulnerable to the West than reverse, only cowardice in our leadership has allowed Putin's madness to continue, and punishing the Russian people for their actions in supporting Putin is going to be a generational thing. You think the shaming and humiliation we put the German's through after WW1 and WW2 was something, wait till you see what happens to Russia for the rest of the century or more.

 

[Bacle]

The US and NATO should adopt a Nuclear Warning Shot doctrine like France has, if we really want to deter Moscow and Beijing.

A few hundred kilo-ton warning shot, to try to preempt a full exchange by demonstrating that the nation in question will shoot first against an aggressor like Russia, might be the only way to keep things from escalating to a full exchange if Moscow and Beijing have definitive proof the West will fire first if they cross certain lines, or act like they think we won't fight back.

Turning Vladivostok into a crater if Russian forces decide to play fuck-fuck games in the Baltic's or Balkan's might get the people in the Kremlin to change the leadership rather rapidly, and demonstrate the west is no long afraid of Russian bluster or grey zone tactics.

 

[LordsFire]

Oh right, and then Russia says Russian weapons are free to be used in NATO territory. Same logic.
Face it - Weapons, money, planning, and intelligence (and even a growing number of soldiers) are NATO's, the only missing thing is the flags. And even that is right now in discussion by the idiots that 'govern' us. Some people really want to be nuke hit.

No, Russian weapons would not be used on NATO territory.

Russia knows it would lose that fight, so it won't start it. Back before they started getting their teeth kicked in in Ukraine, they might have thought that, but the failure to blitz Kiev made it abundantly clear that no, they cannot conduct combined arms maneuver warfare like NATO can.

The continued state of the air war over Ukraine has made it clear that they can't even establish aerospace supremacy against a 4th-rate military, much less the top 3-5 air forces in the world.

On top of all that, Russia has expended and lost huge parts of their stocks of decent weapon systems, especially missiles and SAM systems, and NATO has been watching to learn all the weaknesses

If Russia escalates, it knows that it'll lose, and lose in an utterly humiliating manner. While it's only directly at war with Ukraine, it has a chance at winning, and one they can delude themselves is much bigger than it actually is. On top of that, the worst lose state is that they get kicked out of Ukraine.

If they start a war with NATO as a whole, their best win condition is that their entire air force, navy, and AA complex in the West gets utterly wiped out, and NATO dictates terms of peace while Raptors and F-35s fly over Moscow. At worst, they're completely destroyed as a nation.

They have nothing at all to gain from starting direct conflict with NATO, and everything to lose.

 

[Zachowon]

Oh right, and then Russia says Russian weapons are free to be used in NATO territory. Same logic.
Face it - Weapons, money, planning, and intelligence (and even a growing number of soldiers) are NATO's, the only missing thing is the flags. And even that is right now in discussion by the idiots that 'govern' us. Some people really want to be nuke hit.

....except why havnt the Russians attacked Finland for allowing thier weapons to be used?
Unless @Tyzuris has been getting bombed this whole time and didn't tell us.

Or @Lord Sovereign a brit has been reliving the blitz....

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Russia knows it would lose that fight, so it won't start it.

That's the problem...Russia really doesn't know that b/c they refuse to accept that.

 

[LordsFire]

That's the problem...Russia really doesn't know that b/c they refuse to accept that.

No, their leadership at least does know. There's a reason they play all the gray zone games, '5th generation warfare,' whatever it's called.

If they really thought they could take NATO forces directly, they'd be encouraging us to feed everything we can into a proxy war, so they can chew our material up piece by piece, instead of doing everything they can to get us to stop feeding the Ukrainians.

 

[Zachowon]

Can we all accept this is a precursor to world war 3?
Or are we going to have people stuck in thier ways until the draft man comes because we didn't stop China or Russia?

 

[Lord Sovereign]

There won’t be a Third World War so to speak. A great clash of Empires in the form of America and China over Taiwan is locked in as far as I’m concerned, but Russia will play little part. They are breaking themselves in Ukraine and will continue to break themselves.

 

[Zachowon]

There won’t be a Third World War so to speak. A great clash of Empires in the form of America and China over Taiwan is locked in as far as I’m concerned, but Russia will play little part. They are breaking themselves in Ukraine and will continue to break themselves.

Thinking Taiwan will be an isolated event is laughable.
Russia still has millions of people it can throw at a problem
Iran has so many terror groups they can use it as armies against nations out there.
North Kores will probably be given the ok to invade south Korea.
Hell, Serbia may take Kosovo

 

[strunkenwhite]

Can we all accept this is a precursor to world war 3?
Or are we going to have people stuck in thier ways until the draft man comes because we didn't stop China or Russia?

If WW3 happens, it's hard to believe this won't play a part in that. But if you're saying the fact that this is happening means we are on track for WW3, that's a different claim that I'm not convinced of.

 

[Zachowon]

If WW3 happens, it's hard to believe this won't play a part in that. But if you're saying the fact that this is happening means we are on track for WW3, that's a different claim that I'm not convinced of.

When the biggest power player in the world looks weak and feeble and is allowing other nations to well, getninvaded and stop them from killing the people who want to genocide them.
This gives nations that want to capture countries plenty of ideas.
Like Taiwan, South Korea, etc.

 

[strunkenwhite]

When the biggest power player in the world looks weak and feeble and is allowing other nations to well, getninvaded and stop them from killing the people who want to genocide them.
This gives nations that want to capture countries plenty of ideas.
Like Taiwan, South Korea, etc.

China could perhaps be forgiven for thinking that, if not for the US, Taiwan could be taken by storm in short order with relatively little damage to the homeland. North Korea knows better than to think that about invading South Korea. They are crazy, but not crazy in that particular way as far as I know.

 

[Zachowon]

China could perhaps be forgiven for thinking that, if not for the US, Taiwan could be taken by storm in short order with relatively little damage to the homeland. North Korea knows better than to think that about invading South Korea. They are crazy, but not crazy in that particular way as far as I know.

The only way for an imvasionnof Taiwan to work the US has to he distracted both internally and externally.
Having Russia push out against NATO, North go South and Iran be Iran, opens up for a multifront war