Here's an interesting question for you guys (@Agent23 @History Learner @stevep @Zyobot @Skallagrim et cetera): What is the largest realistic number of East Asians plus Vietnamese that a non-Communist Russia could have realistically accepted as immigrants over the last 110 years?
SlavWhank 101
- Thread starter Agent23
- Start date
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Depends, were there any worldwars and how badly did they turn out for Russia?
How much did Russian society reform towards capitalism and the rule of law/democracy/republicanism?
Because a larger, richer Russian population, with a Russia unscarred by commie stupidity and wars will inevitably need to expand and attract people from places like Korea and China will gravitate towards Russia for a better life, IMHO.
So maybe tens of millions, depending on how this all works out, maybe a lot will be Gasterbaiters.
Farmers from all over Asia, for example, can be settled in Siberia, since those regions would need to be developed further and the cities in European Russia will inevitably attract people to factory and services jobs off farms.
You can personally decide about the World Wars part. And a lot. Also, are the Gastarbeiters actually going to bea llowed to permanently stay in Russia and to eventually acquire Russian citizenship for themselves and/or their descendants?
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Ok, let us have a PoD where stuff mostly goes well for Russia in the 20th century, no Russo-Japanese war, and Russia and Japan find a way to live together, instead.
Russia somehow ditches the Serbs, possibly siding with the Bulgarians on a few issues and letting Bulgaria and Austria-Hungary split up Serbia, hence no Black Hand.
Obviously no world wars, or there are some European general wars in which Russia and its European proxies stay neutral.
That IMHO will give Russia's population a significant boost, this will also require land reform and more capitalism.
Frankly, if technology develops as it did in OTL and the deaths and forced migrations of the various wars are gone away with Russia can probably have 3x the population and industrialize about as fast as it did in the OTL, they will need to develop Siberia, and if they keep their gains from China those areas can flourish as well, and attract Chinese and Korean settlers in the process.
At present there are around 400,000–550,000 Chinese in Russia and just as many Koryo-saram scattered across the former USSR.
TBH that can go up 5-15 times, given Russia is stable and stuff goes about as bad as it did for the rest of Asia in the OTL.
We'd probably see a lot more Mongolians moving into Russia and Mongolia, too.
TheRomanSlayer
Proud Anti-Catholic Bigot
Are we just talking about Russia getting a wank? What about other Slavic states like Serbia, Poland, Bohemia, or even Bulgaria?
Russia is by far the biggest Slavic state, though.
In our times.That is why you could made Poland wank even 300 years ago,Bohemia 600 years ago,and Bulgars&Serbs 700 years ago.
Not mention Great Moravia 1150 years ago,which in my humble opinion would be most interesting.
P.S Smart Poland in 1920 made Poland wank,too - unfortunatelly,we were cursed woth Piłsudzki and his "genius"
TheRomanSlayer
Proud Anti-Catholic Bigot
True, although I do have some ideas for a Serbia and Bulgaria wank.
BULGARIA: Find a way for the First Bulgarian Empire to survive, most likely by convincing either Boris I or Simeon I to ditch the idea of conquering Constantinople, and go for Salonika. Or, Constantinople could still be conquered, but by Krum.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
My idea for that was to have Vladimir Rasate become a Catholic, then join up with the Poles and Moravians and "reform" catholicism(Pope Simeon I ftw) into something that doesn't have a problem with Slavonic rites and Cyrillic.
This alliance takes the Serbian and other Southern Slav tribes l, then the Eastern and northern Slavs, no Kievan Rus, no Rus period.
Just a massive Velikoslavian Holy Empire.
Popes have no problems,germans had.And made popes obey.
If you want cirilic catholics,you must beat germans first.
Since german emperors in that time have alliance with ERE,it mean war on two fronts.Not possible.Pity
Be a shame if some Arabs decide to take on Byzantium, then.
In what time period? Because for whatever reason, Turks were much more deadly to Byzantium than Arabs were.
TheRomanSlayer
Proud Anti-Catholic Bigot
Even better, Boris I adopts the Paulician branch of Christianity. The whole "should we follow Constantinople or Rome" thing was the main reason why the Bulgarian Orthodox Church has the longest autocephaly within the wider Orthodox world. By adopting Paulicianism, Boris I could get the independent Bulgarian Church that he wanted, without attaching himself to either Rome or Constantinople. A Paulician Bulgaria might also become an attractive option for Kyivan Rus', as either Vladimir of Kyiv or Svyatoslav himself, could embrace the Paulician Christian faith.
Why didn't Bulgaria adopt Paulician Christianity in real life?
Buba
A total creep
Heretical
TheRomanSlayer
Proud Anti-Catholic Bigot
Which was awful. I mean, imagine the possibility of a European kingdom adopting not only the Paulician branch of Christianity, but even a Nestorian one as well?
Buba
A total creep
Being a heretic was worse than being a Moslem, I believe. IMO the Bulgars chose correctly, but could had demanded Autonomy (check what that means in Orthodox context) from the onset.
Only for protestants,for them turks was better then catholics.For us,catholics - only as bad as muslims.
But,Bulgars could support pope against HRE,and get autonomy for that.If they made peace with ERE,it should worked.
This is somewhat off-topic, but why exactly did Ruthenia (Ukraine) in the proposed 1658 Polish-Lithuanian-Ruthenian Commonwealth not include Galicia?
en.wikipedia.org
Can any Poles or at least anyone here answer this question?
Polish–Lithuanian–Ruthenian Commonwealth - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Can any Poles or at least anyone here answer this question?