Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
I do agree on the old movies, modern movies have to be fast-paced and extreme! with little room for the slow, quiet moments that build character so well. I think it feeds into the need for endless nostalgia remakes. It's very hard to make a memorable character if you're afraid that sixty seconds of "boring" scene where they make tea and talk quietly about their lives will lose the audience. But without that scene you can't build the character, so modern creations tend to be bland. The workaround is using a nostalgia character so you can draw on the character building of previous movies and have the best of both worlds.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
I dunnow. Probably nostalgia-goggles and far too-much rememberings of EU stuff about people and places that color it, but I still think it's an identifiable change or difference in movie production. Something I might keep an eye out for going forwards, at least.
It's definitely not just nostalgia or something. As has already been noted above: films nowadays really do go for an absurdly frenetic pacing. This is not coincidental: people simply no longer learn to write properly. There's a whole bunch of "writers" out there who couldn't identify a solid character arc if you clobbered them over the head with it. That's not to mention studio micro-managing, which is on the rise again, and results in complete nitwits from over at corporate making decisions they have no business making.

The result is that there is, in many films, no attention paid to important elements. Characterisation isn't established, because people don't know how to establish it. And if they do, the studio orders the relevant moments cut, because to the studio, those moments are "useless padding". Same with world-building. These things just get left by the way-side, and you end up with an over-produced, ultimately insubstantial "spectacle" that relies on hyper-active pacing and big explosions to keep people from ever turning on their brains and realising how hollow it all is.
 
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Deleted member 88

Guest
Viewers have much lower attention spans in general. It’s a major problem arguably world wide.


Slower more introspective scenes might cause audiences to tune out, or get bored.
 

f1onagher

Well-known member
I'll take a look at it. I need a decent shooter at the moment. Uh, is Fallen Order really good? I've heard mixed opinions.
 

Laskar

Would you kindly?
Founder
It's definitely not just nostalgia or something. As has already been noted above: films nowadays really do go for an absurdly frenetic pacing. This is not coincidental: people simply no longer learn to write properly. There's a whole bunch of "writers" out there who couldn't identify a solid character arc if you clobbered them over the head with it.
I would not be the least bit surprised if that was due to studios hiring younger and younger scriptwriters. Not to shit on twenty to thirty-year-olds (I am one) but there is a certain sort of wisdom that comes from experience, and you only get that experience by meeting new people and trying new things.

When Hollywood was at its best, it was stocked with people who had actually done stuff for a living that wasn't filmmaking. Actors, writers, directors and gaffers had fought wars, flown planes, dodged bullets, and sewed wounded soldiers back together. They worked hand-in-hand with honest-to-God cowboys who either tamed the Wild West or knew the legends who did.

Now the all of the people with input into the story making have only ever made movies. Their career path is uniformly a straight shot through high school into a college where they partied their brains out in search of a soft degree, after which they hung around doing scut work and dead-end jobs in Los Angeles until they finally got their lucky break. All of the people who have actually done something for a living are technical consultants who get hired on to be ignored.

If you've ever say through a movie and been blown away by all the technical mistakes, consider that Hollywood writers make the same mistakes with characterization for the same reason that they get guns and medicine wrong.

That's not to mention studio micro-managing, which is on the rise again, and results in complete nitwits from over at corporate making decisions they have no business making.
This is a major problem too, and might even be a bigger one. In fact, a friend of mine has pointed out that video game stories turned into dogshit when video games became massively profitable, and the corporations moved in. Executives don't know storytelling, so they rely on metrics like "does this have x" or "how much of the test audience looks away from the screen in this one scene?"
 
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Deleted member 88

Guest
So has much as we bash the Denningverse around these parts, some o f us like to talk about it(some of us write fanfics about it).

Let’s go through it’s core premises and see what we can work out.

Firstly-the order after the NJO is initially listless and divided. We’ll ignore Denning’s bastardization of Vergere’s teaching for the moment and chalk this up to young Jedi running around and many Jedi that had non Jedi careers and interests.

Some of these listless young Jedi end up heeding the call of a man believed dead, and end up becoming bugs. Firstly we need to remember the Killiks aren’t evil, just very alien and incompatible basically with the rest of galactic civilization.

Lomi PLO and Welk corrupt them and they fight the Chiss.

Eventually the Jedi prevail.

Oh and also to Jacen Solo, a daughter is born.

That will be important later.

Let’s talk about Jacen, post NJO. Leaving out OOU considerations and authorial biases.

Jacen is deeply changed by the war-he has had experiences his family can’t really understand, both in Vong captivity and when he defeated Onimi.

He is thus somewhat alienated his family, further compounded by his 5 year sojourn to learn new force sects and elements of the force.

Jacen is a sage alone. The wandering sage. Lacking the peace and bliss he found for those few glorious moments. He gets back with Tenel Ka-but they can’t be together on any permanent basis because she’s queen of a virulently Anti Jedi Hapan Consortium. She won’t give this up for him, he isn’t selfish enough to ask and she cares for her duty and her people.

Allana is conceived and born a year later. Important to note Tenel Ka slowed down the pregnancy with the force and is implied to have slept with a lot of nobles in the weeks after Allana’s conception to create uncertainty as to who the father is. So she wouldn’t be killed. Think about that, that’s the sort of culture she is queen of.

At the same time, things are not well in the GFFA. The galactic alliance is demanding more of its undamaged members of which the proud corellians are central. More taxes, less autonomy. And is rapidly federalizing.

The Corellians even construct a secret fleet, clearly they believe war is on the horizon.

Now back to Jacen.

In the timeframe of Betrayal, he is a well respected Jedi, considered possibly Master skywalker’s heir. But is deeply unsatisfied with what is a mundane life. That does not demand anything of him. At a certain level, he knows, he feels he has a special destiny. So he runs into a woman named Brysha Syo.

And we’ll continue in a bit.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
I’m well aware.

My point is that the bulk of EU material is about different characters or expanding the main characters storylines.

That's actually what I liked the least about the EU -- the EU was constantly squeezing the supposedly galactic-scale New Republic down to having the same small-scale adventures with the same handful of main characters as the Rebel Alliance. The Thrawn stories were the only ones that even hinted at strategic scale operations across entire sectors, and most of the New Republic stories basically have the entire New Republic Armed Forces either holding a collection of idiot balls or just flat out vanishing in a puff of plot logic.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
Never read the X wing series i take it?

The X-Wing series were fun reads and I did enjoy them as a kid, but ranked among the very worst of the EU in terms of both fighter-wank and "handful of main characters wank". You basically had the super-hypercompetent-invincible-deathcommando-doompilots of Rogue Squadron doing everything while everyone else in the New Republic is either absent or a screaming moron who exists just to set up the Rogues for more glory.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Anyone wonder if the Disney canon as ECM stype stuff like misle scramblers or jammrs?

Well 100 percent confirmed in squadrons
 

DarthOne

☦️
It’s a joke. It’s obviously a reference to the tendency amongst SW fans to complain about whatever the latest iteration is, and see divisions produced in the fandom over it.
Which which is a best exaggerated and gets played up further by the Disney pawns. Not to mention something that's hardly unique to SW. Every franchise has people in it who won't be happy when the next movie/book/series comes out; whether its justified or not.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
Anyone wonder if the Disney canon as ECM stype stuff like misle scramblers or jammrs?

Even if Squadrons' gameplay isn't canon, the technical descriptions, characters, and overall storyline should be. . . and they're really good, even if the Starhawk is the stupidest looking capital ship ever seen in Star Wars.

It's definitely noticeable how integrated Squadrons is with the rest of the Disney Canon; just about everything in the game is a reference to other stuff, a vast improvement over the old EU stuff that pretty much had each author independently making up contradictory (and incredibly wanky) details as they pleased.
 

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