Best and worst magic systems in your opinion.

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Are we talking worst as in "Magic system I'd least like to be a part of" or worst as in "This magic system is totally illogical and poorly designed?"

As far as design:

Best:
Avatar the Last Airbender has a well-developed set of disciplines that are visually distinct, also distinct as to what they can do, have clear limitations and powers, and don't give the impression of being imbalanced which is kind of a key point to the original series. Altogether that means it's fairly well-plotted.

Worst:
Sword of Truth. The rules of magic have nothing to do with magic so much as being a way to sneer (The Wizard's First Rule is literally "People are stupid." The rules do not get better from there.). The villains tend to be automatically immune to everything except a single specific deus ex machina the hero will pull out in the last few pages. The actual way magic works is largely unspecified and is mainly used to pull out deus ex machinas, make the current villain utterly immune to everything except said deus ex machinas, and provide an excuse for kinky BDSM sex.

Honorable Mention:
While I'm not overly fond of Piers Anthony (Dude got steadily creepier as the years rolled by) the Phaze magic system is pretty good. It's actually a number of different magic systems, most of which will arrive at the same results but take different routes to get there (F'rex Blue Magic is cast via rhyming verse, Yellow magic via mixing a potion, and Red Magic via making a talisman). Magic itself can do anything, flat out if you can imagine it, you can do it. The catch is, you can only do it once. After a spell's been cast you can never cast it again unless you think up a new way to do it so it's quite versatile but also nicely limited.

Want to be near:

Best:
Harry Potter magic is somewhat whimsical and nonsensical but also very fun. Being fairy-tale-ish it's actually more interesting the less you know of it, which I suspect is why the world has gone downhill so hard as Rowling continued to write and elaborate on it. Still it's obscenely versatile and potent and does not follow normal rules of logic which makes it ultimately even more powerful since you can rely on science to follow a different logical basis.

Worst:
Probably Warhammer 40K. I'm not actually familiar with how it' magic works but given how the rest of the universe is I have to presume it's full of body horror, probably results in your soul being tortured/eaten, and all your suffering won't accomplish anything in the end except to perpetuate the system.

Dishonorable Mention:
Dragonball Z. There's magic in there somewhere but it's usually obscured by power level and all it seems to be good for is mostly party tricks compared to raising one's power level.
 

Val the Moofia Boss

Well-known member
I'm generally not obsessive over "hard magic systems". If it's cool and services the story, then the magic is good. In LotR and Harry Potter, the physics and rules of the magic system is not important. The characters whip out new, never before heard of spells as the plot demands. This is okay because the magic isn't really important. The plot is about the characters, and the plot is resolved by the characters deciding to make a choice, such as showing someone compassion or performing an act of self sacrifice. It never comes down to "and Gandalf defeated Sauron by casting Ultima!".

I really liked how the different jutsus/techniques/magic spells in Naruto were tied into the story. In most shounen series, you learn a superpower and that's it, but in Naruto you find out how Minato was inspired by the Nine-Tailed Fox's Bijuu bomb to invent the Rasengan. Or how Kakashi looked up to Minato, but Kakashi was frustrated that he couldn't recreate the Rasengan, so Kakashi invented the spell "Chidori". It makes those spells much more meaningful rather than just being "oh, can throw out fireballs". It becomes "Naruto is using the spell his father used, and now Naruto has altered the spell to create his own version of it!". It's rather interesting to trace the lineage of different spells/jutsus.

Best:
Avatar the Last Airbender has a well-developed set of disciplines that are visually distinct, also distinct as to what they can do, have clear limitations and powers, and don't give the impression of being imbalanced which is kind of a key point to the original series. Altogether that means it's fairly well-plotted.

I think one problem with ATLA from the hard magic standpoint is that it's not clear what the maximum range/power of the different techniques is. Can a firebender create a flamethrower that is up to 20 feet long? 50 feet long? 100 feet long? The maximum strength of the abilities seems to vary a lot. Fullmetal Alchemist was a little better in that they established you can only transmute the materials on hand, which visually dictates the maximum range/strength of many abilities, but FMA still sometimes does stuff where like in one instance, Mustang creates a small flamethrower, and then in another he snaps his fingers and a huge bomb goes off, or Alphonse creates a small earth wall in one scene, but in another scene he launches 30 huge pillars at an enemy.

Dishonorable Mention:
Dragonball Z. There's magic in there somewhere but it's usually obscured by power level and all it seems to be good for is mostly party tricks compared to raising one's power level.

On the subject of powerscaling, I feel like most anime/shounen series do this badly. By the end of the first arc of Bleach, the original band of heroes (besides Ichigo) were completely irrelevant. Naruto was really good up until the war arc, at which point the only people who mattered were Naruto, Sasuke, Madara, and the Kages. One Piece is better than average, but towards the latter half of the series, the guys from the first half start becoming irrelevant. A few months ago, MHA jumped the shark and now only a handful of characters will be relevant in the important battles going forward.

One thing I liked about HxH was how powerfu allies were allowed to be included in the party with the protagonist without breaking the story. In the Chimera Ant arc, Gon accompanies the Chairman (who is obscenely powerful compared to everyone) to fight the bad guys, but rather than the Chairman just wiping out everything for Gon, instead they have to work together. The Chairman will take on the big bad (who is too powerful for Gon to have a chance against), while Gon must fight the big bad's lieutenant, or at least keep the lieutenant distracted and prevent him from aiding the big bad in the fight against the Chairman. This also gives stakes to the conflict. We as the audience know that Gon won't die, but if Gon fails and is unable to keep the lieutenant from escaping, then the Chairman might die and the bad guys might win.
 
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Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
Super Moderator
Staff Member
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Worst:
Sword of Truth. The rules of magic have nothing to do with magic so much as being a way to sneer (The Wizard's First Rule is literally "People are stupid." The rules do not get better from there.). The villains tend to be automatically immune to everything except a single specific deus ex machina the hero will pull out in the last few pages. The actual way magic works is largely unspecified and is mainly used to pull out deus ex machinas, make the current villain utterly immune to everything except said deus ex machinas, and provide an excuse for kinky BDSM sex.
The problem isn't so much the SoT magic system as it is the fact that the main character is feted as being a supreme wizard dude and yet never once in the entire series actually becomes capable of any consistent, repeatable, magic. I mean the other wizards and the Sorcerers were fairly cool and interesting but basically everything involving Rand and him using or commenting on magic was just pure ass pull that ignored every previously established rule of magic in the series.
 

Cyan Saiyajin

Well-known member
A few months ago, MHA jumped the shark and now only a handful of characters will be relevant in the important battles going forward.

If you look at it thought that's always been true. OFA and AFO are the most powerful known quirks and their decades long fight has shaped Japan's history in the new era. Unless new things are introduced we pretty much was told that almost from the first episode when Deku said he was going to become the number 1 hero.
 

Val the Moofia Boss

Well-known member
If you look at it thought that's always been true. OFA and AFO are the most powerful known quirks and their decades long fight has shaped Japan's history in the new era. Unless new things are introduced we pretty much was told that almost from the first episode when Deku said he was going to become the number 1 hero.

Deku had OFA sure, but most fights weren't straight up "I am stronger/more durable than you, therefore I win". The other heroes with quirks that weren't straight up raw firepower or durability were able to contribute to a fight.

AFO was off the charts powerful but he was dealt with a rather self contained arc. Him having an obscenely high powerlevel wasn't going to affect the story going forward because I had presumed that he wouldn't be a bad guy who needs to be fought further on down the line, so there wouldn't have been an issue where characters with quirks that aren't raw firepower/durability/speed would be irrelevant.

But in the last arc
the main big bad is pretty much able to set off nukes that destroys everything for miles, meaning that the only characters who can stand up against him must either have super speed/teleportation to escape the nuke, or raw defense/qurik nullification to survive it. And the big bad is now ludicrously durable and has insane regeneration, to the point that you would need multiple ludicrously high firepower heroes like Endeavor, Shoto, Bakugo, and Deku railing on him at once in order to possibly kill him. This limits the characters who can possibly deal with the big bad to an extremely limited pool.
 

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