Alternate History Vivat Stilicho!

stevep

Well-known member
I was more thinking on what makes the Arabs of real life one of the major civilizations of humanity, and not yet another bunch of tribal conquerors that temporarily squatted on a greater civilization before being evicted by someone else. Many tribal conquerors were "tolerant" in that they didn't really care what their tax payers did as long as they paid, and they quickly disappear after their time in the sun as they either get assimilated or scattered after eviction.

Arabs successfully overwrote many ancient civilizations dating back to the very beginning of civilization itself, something neither the Romans nor the Persians managed in their centuries of rule over the same territory. The Golden Age period of combining Greek and Persian and uniquely Islamic no doubt played a part in that. Here, maybe Arabs and Islam just become another set of conquerors of Persian civilization.

OK thanks for clarifying.
 
715-718: Laying foundations

Circle of Willis

Well-known member
715 had a grim dawn in the Holy Roman Empire, as Constantine VI had to grapple with the demand of the Africans for the extirpation of the Jews in that region as punishment for the elders of Lepcés Magna having joined forces with the Muslims. The Emperor deemed it unjust to kill or enslave all African Jews for the crimes of a few, and ordered his son Aloysius to put a stop to the pogroms which had begun to explode in African cities before they spiraled out of control (causing considerable friction with the vengeful King Yusténu of Africa, then still returning from the mountains of Hoggar, who would have welcomed the opportunity to annihilate those he now considered not only hereditary deicides but also subversive traitors and personal foes of his family), but conceded that he could no longer trust the African Jewry to not betray Roman cities to the enemy. Especially pertinent was Gradzéanu of Yunéga’s argument that since the last of the Galilean Jews were expelled by his father and mother, Roman and Christian Arab forces in Palaestina have not had to worry with Jewish betrayal there, as had befallen the Eastern Augustus Constantine IV. News that Dux Cassiodorus had been killed in an ambush by ragged Donatist partisans while returning to Roman Africa, much as a scorpion might reflexively sting its killer with its last breath, further soured the Romans’ mood despite not having anything to do with the Jews.

Ultimately, to appease the vengeful Yusténu (to whom he felt he also owed a debt for apparently finally ridding orthodox Christendom of the Donatist pestilence) and more firmly secure Holy Roman control over the southwestern coast of the Mediterranean, Constantine authorized the expulsion of Jews from the African kingdom, though not their extermination nor their mass enslavement (the courses of action preferred by the enraged Africans). Many ended up in Italy, southern Gaul and even Germania (though they conspicuously avoided Hispania, where the Visigoths were known to despise them even when they were still on friendlier terms with the Africans), flocking to the capital of the Aloysians and its environs in hope of starting a new life while anything they couldn’t carry with them was seized by the Africans (the economic downturn which resulted was a price Yusténu gladly accepted both for his revenge and to rid his realm of what he perceived to be an intransigent religious & security threat). A not-insignificant number of Jews also opted to leave the Holy Roman Empire altogether for either the Hashemite Caliphate or especially Khazaria, the only one of the three great Western Eurasian powers to not have either persecuted or betrayed them to date.

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The Jews of Carthage leaving for, hopefully, more secure & tolerant shores

With that unpleasant business concluded, the Council of Miletus could begin in earnest. Arguments over the legitimacy of the filioque seemingly dominated the proceedings over 715 and the next several years, being the highest-profile and most obviously divisive issue brought to the table at this stage. The Roman and Carthaginian bishops were in favor, arguing that a bevy of Church Fathers from Cyril of Alexandria to the Latin Fathers whose traditions they followed most closely found that the Bible supported the notion that the Holy Spirit proceeded from both the Father and the Son while their Greek counterparts were still struggling to describe the relationship between the Son and the Spirit. Meanwhile the bishops of the oriental Patriarchates insisted that the double procession of the Holy Spirit was not sound doctrine supported by the New Testament, and that the Nicene Creed’s original text must therefore remain absolutely unaltered.

While the dispute over the filioque sucked up most of the air in the basilica of Miletus, Constantine was getting work done on more practical matters in-between the most notable debates. After months of additional (though at the time largely overlooked) debate between his supporters among the Roman episcopacy and those of a strictly Italy-centric outlook he prevailed upon Pope Vitalian, the successor of the Pope Sergius who had crowned him ten years prior, and the bishops of the Roman See in general to extend the dignity of ‘cardinal’ – originally reserved for the priests of the Eternal City’s own parishes and the bishops of the seven suburbicarian dioceses (Ostia, Velletri, Porto, Albano, Tusculo, Palestrina and Sabina, as they were now called in the common speech of the Italians) – to a number of esteemed bishops from outside Italy (including one each from the Christian federate kingdoms within Rome’s jurisdiction: the Burgundians, Franks, Lombards, Thuringians, Alemanni, Bavarians and Carantanians).

These incardinated provincials would each be assigned a titular church in Rome, thereby giving them a say in the election of future Popes and enlarging the stake of the Ephesians of Gaul, Germania, etc. as well as the autonomous federates in what had up until then been a thoroughly Italian-dominated Holy See. Constantine believed this would serve as a compromise solution that both reduced the resentment of the provincial Roman Ephesians and federate subjects while also not taking away so much influence from the Italian prelates as to enrage them. Above all the Augustus hoped this measure (and the open-ended possibility of adding to the original cardinals as the faith spread among the barbaric peoples) would take all talk of splitting a Northern European ‘Treverian See’ away from Rome off the table, as he respected the legacy of Saint Peter too much to want to have to potentially go through with such a decision and thought the number seven auspicious & fitting for the number of Ephesian sees besides.

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The new Cardinals could be immediately distinguished from lesser prelates by their vestments of scarlet silk, symbolizing their willingness to die for the faith

While the Romans were trying to sort out their internal issues peacefully over a church council before said issues ballooned to interminable proportions, Islam did not seem likely to enjoy such luxury. The Caliph Abdullah thought he could relax after finally bringing his Abbasid relatives to heel, while the Alids had been weakened by infighting as well as an unforeseen and unrelated conflict with the Indo-Romans; he had nothing to do with that particular war, but found it a welcome development anyway. He scarcely got to relax in the Egyptian-built hammam[1] of the Qasr al-Qasimi (‘Qasimi Palace’), the lavish Hashemite residential complex in Kufa whose construction had begun under Qasim ibn Muhammad, before new internal problems began to emerge immediately after the Peace of Erevan – Kharijite forces were rearing their heads, and this time, they could argue much more persuasively that the Banu Hashim had become decadent disappointments to their ancestor the Prophet & thereby ought to be replaced.

The first signs of trouble were attacks on Hashemite officials, beginning with the fatal stabbing of the wali of Basra by a self-proclaimed mujahid of the Kharijites (who had leaped from a rooftop onto the governor as the latter inspected a district of Basra to accomplish his deed, and gladly accepted his own death immediately afterward at the hands of said governor’s stunned guards) and escalating to an assassination attempt on Abdullah himself. Before 715 was half out, a rebel of the Banu Taghlib tribe named Maslamah ibn Yusuf had attracted a zealous following in the Najd, who acclaimed him as a better man than Abdullah ibn Abd al-Rahman and the true Caliph in an austere ceremony at Diriyah. Many disillusioned Hashemite garrisons in the area defected to his side, such that his influence soon extended as far as Taif near the Haramayn[2], and he made his presence known by slaughtering caravans of pilgrims seeking to venerate the first Caliph (for they believed such practices to be tantamount to idolatry).

By the year’s end, Ibn Yusuf was no longer alone in rebelling against the authority of the Hashemite Caliphate. Additional Khawarij (by this time no longer referring to a specific ideology, but rather anyone who rejected Hashemite authority) had taken up arms in parts of Arabic Syria, Yaman, Persia (especially Persia in fact, where Abdullah’s displacement of their former Abbasid leaders and compromises with the local Persians alienated those Arabs who had already settled in that land) and even his central power-base of Mesopotamia. The Caliph himself no longer dared leave his palace after facing additional assassination attempts every time he exited its gates; he frantically named Nusrat al-Din the first true ‘Grand Vizier’ with emergency power to do anything they had to to suppress these uprisings at any cost, and also wrote to his Alid cousins (whose bloodying he had ironically been all but celebrating not long ago) offering them support to not only entrench their presence in al-Hind but also resume their expansion against the Hunas. If Abdullah’s contention with his own kin was the First Fitna, then there can be no doubt that all these rebellions put together amounted to a Second Fitna, disjointed though they might have been. It was unfortunate for the Romans that they had just been quite bloodied themselves in the newly-concluded war and opened a new church council, for this would otherwise have been a good opportunity to take even more land back from the Caliphate.

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Maslamah ibn Yusuf and his warband of anti-Hashemite zealots roving through the sands of Arabia

Arguments over the filioque continued to dominate the Council of Miletus throughout 716, even as the Roman bishops continued to not only discuss but also begin drafting the formal drafts which would officially provide for the non-Italian cardinals they had debated since the previous year. While the Latin bishops brought up arguments made by the Cappadocian (and therefore eastern) Church Fathers to support the pro-filioque view of Saint Augustine, the Eastern bishops now argued that the canons of the Council of Ephesus forbade any alteration to the Nicene Creed whatsoever. At their most heated, the Easterners hurled accusations of the West being cowards trying to alter dogma to appease their new Germanic and Slavic believers, thought to be more understanding of the idea of double-procession; the Westerners retorted that the position of the East reeked of crypto-Arianism in advancing the position of God the Father as an entity separate from & higher than God the Son, an exchange which resulted in the Emperor’s paladins having to step in to keep both factions’ bishops from reenacting the confrontation between Saint Nicholas and Arius.

While feuding over the filioque continued unabated, Constantine sought to move things along on a different front – building a legitimate justification for the continued existence for the Emperorship outside of the context of being the ultimate military dictator of the Roman state, so that his heirs might sit the throne he now occupied for another thousand years without the slightest legal challenge. Diocletian had done much to reform the Roman constitution and governance, shedding most of the remaining pseudo-republican trappings left from the Principate era in favor of more explicitly monarchist reforms (including openly wearing a crown and mandating that his subjects prostrate themselves in his presence) – little could be done to build on this idea while the Roman world was divided and under constant siege by barbarians, or else trying to recover from the damage they and rival Roman usurpers had inflicted, but now with Rome unified and in a strong position, Constantine believed it was time to change that. Having been first raised in the Greek East under his mother, where the concept of kingship was far more acceptable than in the Roman West (to the point that the imperial title was translated as Basileus – ‘king’ – in Greek), the Augustus naturally was inspired to build on rather than reverse Diocletian’s reforms and fix the imperial office onto a permanently, unambiguously monarchical foundation that would stand the test of time.

The problem, of course, was that the Roman citizenry of the Latin West still retained their traditional abhorrence toward the idea of a king (rex) ruling over them, instead valuing the republican traditions of old (no matter how badly they may have been marred and even trodden upon by the march of time, going back long before even the first Stilicho had been born). However, in this regard Constantine believed the federate kings provided him with an advantage. The Teutons who ruled large parts of said West as autonomous subjects of the Empire were not strangers to the concept of being ruled by monarchs, often claiming divine descent to justify their kingship (legendary origins which they retained even after converting to Christianity), and while many had picked up Roman customs such as the (Ephesian) Christian religion and local Romance languages/dialects over the centuries, an overt sentimental attachment to republicanism was not one of those – they had even proven helpful in smacking down rebellions by the ‘proper’ Romans of Italy against the Stilichians and his own father.

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Long had the Roman understanding of government been divided between the Western Latins' attachment to their republican past and the Greek East's support for absolutism (or as the former might disparagingly call it, 'oriental despotism'). The sixth Constantine believed the Teutons held the key to a compromise position that could reconcile these diverse positions & peoples, he just had to articulate it both theologically and within the confines of existing Roman institutions (such as the Senate)

They did however reject the notion of an absolutist monarchy, the leges barbarorum (Germanic laws) which they strove to reconcile with Roman civil law as part of their assimilation into Romanitas constantly allowing for popular assemblies (the Thing) and the entrenchment of rights & privileges which an autocrat could never lawfully tread upon. This Constantine accepted as part of his paternal heritage, for like his father he had taken from the Aetas Turbida crisis which had crippled the Stilichians the lesson that a sovereign should, in fact, remember he was mortal and fallible, and not rush headlong to tread upon and steal from his subjects – better to live long as a monarch with some limitations (which of course he intended to be as loose and easy to bear as possible) than to die in a hurry as an autocrat. Among the new dynasty, he was the first to really conceptualize the vision of the Roman emperorship which the Aloysians would work to establish: neither the quasi-republicanism of the Principate which the Latins still looked back upon wistfully, nor the unlimited divinely-sanctioned autocracy favored by the Greeks, but a sort of midpoint in a Europe-spanning federal monarchy justified by divine right and yet working within constraints that required it to maintain a respectful, law-and-custom-bound relationship with its vassals & subjects inspired by the Teutons.

Since he was presiding over a church council at the moment, Constantine decided to first try to articulate this theory from a religious angle, Ephesian Christianity being the theological element for the foundation of said intended position. Theologians in his employ led by Clémente (Lat.: ‘Clementius’) de Dornomage[3], aided by sympathetic prelates, began to draft additional theories to justify his plans from within the context of the Emperor already being the head of the Christian Church, as had been accepted since the days of the first Constantine four hundred years ago: if the Pope – acknowledged universally by Ephesians from England to Mesopotamia as the primus inter pares among the Heptarchs – was Saint Peter’s successor, and each of the Heptarchic Sees claimed to be the successors to another Apostle, then could it not be argued their overall head in the Augustus Imperator was the successor to Christ? Not in the sense that he was the Messiah come again, heavens no, but in the sense that he was an earthly regent for the King of Kings until he should come again at the end of days, and leading Christ's Church as Constantine I had done was one of his key responsibilities. Existing Roman governmental terminology was used as a framework so as to avoid, at any point, actually referring to the Emperor as a king: rather, as the Popes had been referred to as the Vicarius Christi (‘Vicar of Christ’), so too should the Emperor be thought of as a sort of ‘Prefect of the Earth’ – referring to the position of Praetorian prefect, the second-highest civil official to whom the provincial vicars answered but who in turn still answered to the Roman sovereigns, much as said sovereign would still answer to God.

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Acknowledging Jesus Christ as the heavenly Rex Gloriae and himself as but the former's earthly regent/prefect was instrumental to Constantine VI's attempt to institutionalize the imperial office as a kingly one while also shutting the door permanently on him or future Aloysians ever calling themselves 'kings' to appease Italian sensibilities

While Constantine was continuing to quietly work on his reforms against the backdrop of the Council of Miletus, Abdullah cowered within the Qasr al-Qasimi in an effort to not die as the flames of discontent threatened to burn down everything the past three generations of Hashemites had built up. It fell to Nusrat al-Din to restore order to the Caliphate instead: he started with the capital of Kufa, where within a bloody fortnight he and his ghilman had ruthlessly suppressed rioting and silenced dissent against his master, after which he moved out against the numerous but disunited rebels following a scattered assortment of self-proclaimed Caliphs in other parts of the Caliphate. In the first months of 716, Al-Din frantically crisscrossed Mesopotamia to put down the Kharijite uprisings of Jabir ibn Uways (operating out of Tikrit, north of Kufa), Muzaffar ad-Din (operating out of Basra, southeast of the capital) and Shaiban ibn Shaiban (operating out of al-Qarqisiyah, as the Arabs referred to the former Roman Circesium).

It was a testament to the general’s skill at arms, even when fighting other Muslims rather than foreign enemies, that he managed to put each revolt down with great speed & ferocity before they could link their forces together. With the closest threats to Kufa eliminated, Al-Din next marched into Syria and chastised the rebellious Qaysite tribes settled there – who were among the angriest at their latest failure to gain any ground in Syria & Palaestina against Constantine VI – with support from Amr al-Ansari, who had managed to retain his position in Egypt despite demonstrated incompetence in the Second Siege of Lepcés Magna by virtue of his loyalty to the Banu Hashim in this trying time. At the same time, he also had to direct operations to keep the especially brutal and fanatically anti-Hashemite rebellion of Maslamah ibn Yusuf away from the holy cities, and in general contain the damage they were doing. Such turbulence did not only affect Muslims, of course – those Jews who thought to flee Roman Africa for Dar al-Islam mostly decided they should just continue on toward Khazaria instead than risk leaping from Yusténu’s frying pan into the fires of fitna.

In his capacity as Grand Vizier, Al-Din also cultivated ever-deeper ties with the Persian nobility and agreed to help them try to revive their social class’s fortunes in exchange for their full cooperation against the rebels in Fars: including the appointment of certain Persian nobles who had accepted Islam to gubernatorial offices in that part of the Caliphate. This policy of bringing converted non-Arabs into high civil & military office (where they were collectively referred to as the Mawali or ‘servants’, singl. Mawla) in exchange for support against the various rebellions rocking the Hashemites’ casbah was also extended to the Ethiopians in Habasha, and its intra-Arab equivalent to the Yamani tribes who had previously been treated with disfavor and only granted limited concessions under Hashemite rule (on account of so many of their Qaysite rivals, previously favored by the Banu Hashim who were themselves a Qaysite clan, now becoming some of the most determined rebels against Abdullah). Whether by design – perhaps inspired by the sight of the Romans’ numerous multiethnic federates working remarkably well with their overlord and one another to bring that enemy empire victories on several fronts – or simply by accident & necessity, Nusrat al-Din thus took enormous steps to transform the Hashemite Caliphate into an empire more inclusive of its various subjects.

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Nusrat al-Din found himself having to continue bringing together Muslims from a multitude of ethnic backgrounds to prop up the Banu Hashim, making his time of prominence a transformative one for Islam whether by his own design (logical, since he was not an Arab himself) or sheer accident

Constantine’s formulation of a permanent monarchist basis for the Emperorship continued throughout 717, as did the public arguments over the filioque – although those had cooled down somewhat this year compared to the previous one, as the Augustus‘ insistence on calm, discipline and an avoidance of childish embarrassments among the bishops of the Church was heeded. It was in 717 that Clémente of Dornomage and his cohorts began to articulate the conciliar canon explicitly tying the Augustinian concept of Civitas Dei – the ‘City of God’ – to the imperial office. Devised by the African saint in the wake of Stilicho’s early victories over myriad Roman and barbarian foes in the first decades of the fifth century, this doctrine visualized the Christian Church in general as the spiritual ‘City of God’, protected by the ‘Earthly City’ – imperfect but strong and right-believing worldly rulers doing their best to protect the faithful from evil, as the Stilichians were in his lifetime – against the ‘City of the Devil’, which is to say heretics, unbelievers and dangerous threats of all stripes menacing the Church both physically and spiritually, and which would only be extinguished when Jesus returns on the Day of Judgment and the pure Kingdom of God comes to be[4]. The usefulness of this doctrine in relation to Constantine’s plan to claim the mantle of Christ’s regent and ‘Prefect of the Earth’ was obvious.

While the Emperor remained at Miletus to oversee the ongoing church council, his bloodline was further extended this year with the birth of another grandson in Trévere, baptized as John. And speaking of the Aloysian bloodline, efforts to find a legendary origin for it – one rooted in Judeo-Christian backgrounds and grander than any of the godly origins ascribed to the royal bloodlines ruling over their various Germanic federates, so as to rival the Hashemites’ descent from he who they called the ‘last Messenger of God’ – were underway as of this year: the kingly house of the ancient Chamavi Franks to which the Aloysians belonged already claimed descent from Tyr/Tiwaz, the Teutons’ one-handed god of war and especially honorable combat, but this was considered insufficient for Constantine’s undertaking. Clémente’s companion Fost (Lat.: ‘Faustus’) de Léodece[5] speculated that the imperial house was actually descended from Jesus by way of a secret marriage to Mary Magdalene, but this suggestion was immediately dismissed by Constantine, who found it blasphemous; claiming descent from one of Christ’s brothers (the Adelphoi) as advocated by Gallen (Lat.: 'Gallienus') de Feresne[6] seemed a more promising idea instead, especially since at least one (Saint Jude Thaddeus) was known to have descendants as late as the reign of Hadrian, although that brought into question just how said brothers were related to Jesus. The Eastern bishops were of the position that they were stepbrothers born of a previous marriage of Joseph’s, while the Western bishops favoring the idea that they were actually the sons of Mary of Clopas and thus Christ’s cousins. Fost’s own writings on the subject remained scant and obscure, resurfacing many centuries later as a minor historical curiosity and fodder for conspiracy theories about a ‘Jesus bloodline’.

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Until Christ should come again and purify the Earth at the Day of Judgment, the growing theory of the 'imperial regency' justified the position of Emperor as being the imperfect, ever-besieged, but still standing wall preventing barbarians & demons from devouring the faithful on the Earth

To the east, Nusrat al-Din spent 717 defeating the Syrian rebels with a combination of force and diplomacy. After killing Marwan ibn Safwan in the Battle of Tadmur, he negotiated the surrender of and amnesty for that Kharijite’s followers in Damascus, and proved persuasive enough to recruit several thousand of them to join his army. Later at the Battle of Sughar he & Amr al-Ansari cornered & crushed the rebel host of Iyad ibn Uqba, who were massacred to the last man after responding to a final entreaty to yield with arrows. Finally, he exploited the mutual hatred & tension between the rebel ‘Caliph’ Ubaydallah ibn al-Dahhak and his chief general Abu al-Judham to get the latter to assassinate the former during the Siege of Gaza, only to then be killed by a mob of the fallen Kharijite leader’s followers, leaving the defense of the city leaderless and easy to overcome. Additionally from his saddle he prevailed upon Abdullah in Kufa to dismiss most non-Muslims from his government, instead replacing them with both Arabs and non-Arab converts, so as to appear to be restoring the purity & sanctity of the Islamic government – as well as further incentivizing conversion to Islam, offering great reward to those who did convert, and (in balancing the appointment of Qaysi/Adnanite and Yamani/Qahtanite Arabs) striving to reconcile Arabs themselves with the regime and one another regardless of tribal ties, all at once.

However, one thing Al-Din could not accomplish despite his skill at arms and in diplomacy alike was to fully snuff out the alternative schools of thought beginning to emerge as coherent alternatives to Hashemite doctrine among the various Kharijite rebellions. Two of the first of these early Islamic heresies could not be more different: in the searing sands of the Nejd Maslamah ibn Yusuf articulated his austere, violently puritanical and militant dogma on the foundation first laid down by Abd al-Wahhab 30 years before, under which it was right and just to denounce Muslims who had clearly fallen short of the standards set by their faith as kafir (an unbeliever) and to kill them – this was what he had done and hoped to do in regard to the Banu Hashim after all – and to reject the hadith, tainted by association with the Hashemites, in favor of acknowledging only the laws & teachings outlined in the Quran. In contrast to these ‘al-Shurat’ or ‘exchangers’ (as Maslamah’s men boasted that they gladly exchanged their mortal lives for eternal life in Heaven with their brutal deeds), a much more merciful sect called the Murji’ites (‘postponers’, in the sense that they postponed their judgment of others) was emerging among the anti-Hashemite Arabs of Persia, whose leader Zayd ibn Muawiyat proclaimed that no man had authority to judge whether another had sinned or turned apostate, and thus that it was not right to engage in takfir (the denunciation of other Muslims as unbelievers) – that right belonged to Allah alone.

Meanwhile in Khazaria, Kundaçiq Khagan found himself spending the last few years of his reign settling the Jews exiled from Roman Africa, including those who had originally intended to settle among the Babylonian Jewry but then changed their minds due to the explosion of violence in the Hashemite Caliphate. They did not solely congregate in the capital of Atil: some were given the right to settle the sites of the ancient, long-ruined Greek ports of Hermonassa & Tanais on the shores of the Pontus Euxinus, overcoming the swampy terrain and difficult winters to revive these sites as the Khazar towns of Tamantarkhan[7] and Tana[8]. Those of a literate/numerate and mercantile disposition would help bring riches to their new home by enhancing the Khazars’ competitive edge along the middle length of the Silk Road against their Babylonian/Radhanite brethren who primarily worked for the Caliphs, and would soon enough rise in the esteem of & be rewarded with civil offices by the Khagans.

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Jewish exiles building up Tamantarkhan on the northern shores of the Black Sea under Khazar protection

718 broke up the monotony of the usual clerical battles over the filioque, as well as work on the religious foundation for Constantine’s planned governmental reforms, with the arrival of a secret diplomatic mission from Britannia in Trévere. The British high king Bedur was still interested in reconciling with the Romans on the continent, if only to spare his realm a war he knew they had no chance of winning and the consequent devastation, and believed some theological accord between Pelagianism and orthodox Ephesianism would go a long way to producing that outcome. He was already trying to move things in that direction by pushing for Semi-Pelagianism; but if the Romans were to entertain any thought of peacefully reincorporating their northernmost wayward province, they had to put in some work on their end as well. After being informed of this development by his heir, Constantine allowed his partisans among the Roman bishops to begin probing the waters around those questions central to their dispute with the Pelagians – the nature of man, salvation and free will. (In response the Augustus also briefly invited his Caesar to Miletus so that he might confide his grand designs in the latter, trusting Aloysius would carry on his work in case he died before managing to realize all that he had planned.)

The question of whether men were tainted by original sin from birth rapidly proved to be no question at all to those gathered: across all seven patriarchates the position that, yes, they certainly were and thus infant baptism was critical to ensuring their soul would be saved. On salvation and free will however, there was dissension and by extension room to begin working toward reconciliation with the Pelagians. The majority of Roman bishops were willing to agree with their counterparts in the Eastern patriarchates who advocated the position of Saint John Cassian, a mystic and monastic theologian respected in both Occident and Orient, that although the process of being saved must always start with God’s grace, humans have the free will to accept or reject the divine hand of salvation. Just as a man who’s fallen overboard and has a rope thrown to him can cling to the rope and be pulled to safety, or refuse it and drown, so too is how things are according to this ‘synergistic’ position, which was not entirely incompatible with the Semi-Pelagianism advocated by Bedur’s own partisans in Britain.

Ironically, it was the Carthaginians who objected most strongly against the synergistic doctrine of salvation, instead seeking to take the Augustinian position on man’s innate depravity to its logical conclusion. In the reckoning of the African hard-liners, man’s nature was inherently depraved and corrupted thanks to the original sin of Adam & Eve, yet still it was no match for the saving grace of God; and since God orders all things, it was only logical to assume that He predestined some souls to salvation (though they still did not hold a belief in double predestination, that is to say, the idea that God also predestined some souls to damnation), which no man could resist by will if God had decreed it for him. They were also committed to the Augustinian view that unbaptized infants were doomed to go to Hell, even if their condemnation would be extremely mild since they were not tainted by any sin save the original one – a position completely unacceptable to not only the British Pelagians, who deemed such punishment to be naked cruelty that could only have come from the mind of Satan rather than a loving God, but also the easternmost Patriarchates of the Heptarchy, where the universalist position (that all would eventually be saved and reconciled with God) had not fallen out of favor as it had elsewhere. The African rebuttal invariably was that it was prideful to do anything but accept the ineffable will of God, and that their rivals were arrogant in thinking they knew or could judge others better than God Himself, just as they themselves would be guilty of that lowest sin if they dared presume they were part of God’s elect[9].

Understanding the delicateness of the situation and the importance of the African bishops to advancing the filioque, Constantine took care to direct the council toward those areas where he thought unity was likeliest and the prospect for a favorable compromise most promising. While he pushed for the brewing discussion on soteriology to be stifled and tabled for another church council (lest it sidetrack or worse, break up the united Roman-Carthaginian front on the filioque), the Emperor led his clerical allies to understand that he wished for them to also start work on finessing a definitive Ephesian position on the ‘intermediate state’ between life and death – specifically, whether there was a place between Heaven and Hell that the likes of unbaptized infants, virtuous pagans and those believers who had died in sin but could still be purified could reside. In this endeavor his contacts among the Eastern bishops would eventually be invaluable in creating another theological bridge to his liking, just as toward 718’s end they began to sway large numbers of their brethren to the position that the ancient saints of the Occident & Orient from Cyril to Jerome to Epiphanius may have expressed their belief in the procession of the Holy Spirit in different ways, they must have shared an agreement for saints were inerrant in their faith: finally the Council of Miletus was getting somewhere on the subject of the filioque, they just had to nail down what that agreement was, and not a moment too soon in Constantine’s estimation.

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Constantine sensed the Council of Miletus was finally on track to reaching an accord over the filioque as of late 718, which was a fantastic development, for the sooner they could get that done the sooner he could get them to refocus on canonizing his theory on the imperial regency and his theologians' efforts to link the Aloysian family tree to that of Christ's adelphoi

In the east, Nusrat al-Din first mopped up remaining organized resistance in Bilad al-Sham and Islamic Filastin, no doubt thanking his lucky stars that the Khazars were still rebuilding their strength & that the Romans’ emperor was too enamored in finally getting to indulge his scholarly interests to attack again in this moment of weakness all the while. Before going off to confront the Exchangers in Arabia, he did stop at Kufa, where a few days after treating him to a lavish welcome banquet the Caliph Abdullah suddenly died. The official story was that he had just died in his sleep, but rumors lingered that his faithful right hand had him smothered with a pillow, having interpreted his command to preserve the unity of Islam and Hashemite leadership over the Ummah at all costs to also include eliminating such an obvious liability to these goals as himself – and if this were the case, then Al-Din would be proven right in such an interpretation in short order, as few mourned the third Caliph for having driven Islam to the brink of catastrophe with his folly and dreadfully misguided priorities.

Even more conveniently for the Grand Vizier, Abdullah’s son and designated successor Ibrahim died on the same night as his father. A slovenly sort who was even more of a reprobate than his father, Ibrahim had been similarly raised in the lap of luxury and was most infamous for having dared proposition at least two widows too soon after the demise of their husbands in Al-Din’s armies (thus violating the iddah period mandated by the Quran), so that he had been judged by observers as one unfit to bear the Caliphal title in peacetime, much less during a crisis like this fitna. His demise from choking on an especially large kofta meatball (during which nobody seemed particularly interested in helping him) allowed Al-Din to enthrone his son (and Abdullah’s grandson), then-thirteen-year-old Hashim, as the fourth Hashemite Caliph.

A diligent and studious lad unlike his petty, overly vindictive yet also cowardly grandfather or his indolent and unwise father, Hashim demonstrated some actual promise even at his young age: Al-Din himself wondered whether the Ummah might have found their answer to Constantine VI in him. Though all that said, those same traits which gave him a shot at greatness would doubtless also lead to friction with his overmighty regent in the future, even if he thought the latter truly totally innocent of any involvement in the extremely convenient deaths of his predecessors. These troubles, however, would only really come to the surface at a later time: for now, young Hashim could do little (nor would he have been inclined to do anything even if he had the power, given the dangerous circumstances) to keep Al-Din from executing his mission to suppress all resistance to Hashemite rule wherever he found it and by whatever means he deemed best. Toward the end of 718 that meant marching into Arabia with his young nominal liege in tow, so that Hashim might observe as he repelled the Kharijite drive on Mecca & Medina in the Battle of Ta’if.

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Caliph Hashim ibn Ibrahim, still underage as of the time he had to take up his grandfather's mantle. On his young shoulders rested the burden of ensuring the survival of the Hashemites and their continued leadership of the Ummah – a burden Nusrat al-Din seemed quite happy to 'help' him carry

====================================================================================

[1] An Arab bathhouse, originally inspired by Roman designs. In this case it would’ve had to been built with the help of Egyptian collaborators and taken inspiration from the thermae of Alexandria, what with Egypt being the largest Roman province to have been fully seized by the forces of Islam to date.

[2] ‘Two Sanctuaries’ – a collective term for Mecca & Medina.

[3] Durnomagus – Dormagen.

[4] Historically, Augustine’s Civitas Dei (written in the context of Rome having been sacked by the Visigoths, which didn’t happen ITL) instead conceptualized the City of God as the pure Catholic Church, existing in eternal opposition against but fated to eventually triumph over the Earthly City which represented worldly power, luxury and all who have chosen these things over God; both are the instrumental players in the universal war between God and Satan. There wasn’t a separate ‘City of the Devil’ since that was synonymous with the Earthly City in our Civitas Dei.

[5] Leodicum – Liège.

[6] Heerlen.

[7] Taman.

[8] Rostov-on-Don.

[9] Long story short, the Carthaginian positions expressed here stray close to but hasn’t reached the level of Calvinism (total depravity of man, irresistable grace and double predestination combined with the concept of unconditional election all being concepts most often associated with Calvinism, but which were derived by Calvin out of Augustine’s teachings more than a thousand years prior).
 

shangrila

Well-known member
How are the Patriarchates of Alexandria and Babylon working anyway? Are the Patriarchs working from ever increasingly permanent exile to eventually becoming titular Patriarchs like modern titular bishops? Or are they, effectively high officials in the Roman government given its religious/political unification, living under the domination of the Caliphate?

Hell, their bishops seem to be at the Council, are those bishops all in exile too?
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
Father and son dying of natural causes on the same day, what a coincidence.

Clémente’s companion Fost (Lat.: ‘Faustus’) de Léodece[5] speculated that the imperial house was actually descended from Jesus by way of a secret marriage to Mary Magdalene, but this suggestion was immediately dismissed by Constantine, who found it blasphemous; claiming descent from one of Christ’s brothers (the Adelphoi) as advocated by Gallen (Lat.: 'Gallienus') de Feresne[6] seemed a more promising idea instead

That's a rich pickings for this TL version of Dan Brown.

So Christianity is heading for the divine right of kings. while Islam is moving away from being a religion by Arabs for Arabs.

I reckon great influx of jews hostile to Rome, might help convince the successors of Kundaçiq Khagan to listen to their mother and turn their attention to Roman Empire.
 

Circle of Willis

Well-known member
How are the Patriarchates of Alexandria and Babylon working anyway? Are the Patriarchs working from ever increasingly permanent exile to eventually becoming titular Patriarchs like modern titular bishops? Or are they, effectively high officials in the Roman government given its religious/political unification, living under the domination of the Caliphate?

Hell, their bishops seem to be at the Council, are those bishops all in exile too?
More like the latter I'd say, even if they are naturally in decline from having come under Islamic power. The Muslims are supporting the 'heretical' strands of Christianity over the orthodox bishoprics but they haven't gotten around to coming down really hard on the latter yet, so at this point I'd say Alexandria & Babylon are like stronger versions of the RL Greek Orthodox Patriarchates of Alexandria & Jerusalem, complete with having their patriarchs still reside in their respective seats akin to the latter's after one was found to succeed Sophronius in 681. (Of course this could easily change, as you can see from this latest chapter Nusrat al-Din's beginning to turn the screws on non-Muslims even as he's trying to build support among non-Arab Muslims - God knows things won't be good if the Romans themselves run into internal problems and thus can't intervene immediately)
Father and son dying of natural causes on the same day, what a coincidence.



That's a rich pickings for this TL version of Dan Brown.

So Christianity is heading for the divine right of kings. while Islam is moving away from being a religion by Arabs for Arabs.

I reckon great influx of jews hostile to Rome, might help convince the successors of Kundaçiq Khagan to listen to their mother and turn their attention to Roman Empire.
Pretty much, yep. Per the chapter's title, while there hasn't been a lot of action (at least not for Christendom) the important foundations for a lot of future developments are being laid down now. From the ecumenical council hitting a lot of topics (at this rate it'll probably be several ecumenical councils since there's too much to try to get done in one sitting), to the Muslims' internal infighting, to the Khazars taking in Jews (also unlikely to be the last wave of exiles since the Mel Gibson level is about as friendly & tolerant as medieval Christendom will probably get re: Judaism, while the Jews in turn working with the Romans' enemies to get back at them further sets up a toxic feedback loop) - it's all planned to go places, some of those places being closer than others.
 

stevep

Well-known member
Well a lot happening there. The emperor is seeking to secure the position of himself and his dynasty - along with potential successors as directly supported by god and hence not as dependent on the churches themselves, especially the Roman popes. At the same time however his push for the assorted Germanic federals to get their own cardinals within the Roman church is likely to strengthen the bid of Rome for supremacy within the church, which could be a threat to the dynasty and the unity of the wider church in times to come. Also the African church seems to be isolating itself somewhat which could undermine its position later and further strengthen the papacy.

The Muslims are getting off lightly with such distraction inside the empire meaning the Caliphate can have its time of weakness and troubles without serious external threat. This could make them stronger against their opponents later, who might not be so luck when they have their own problems.

Glad that Constantine is showing some tolerance to the Jews being disposed and the numbers fleeing to the Khazar empire could be a factor in prompting its conversion to Judaism but that in turn is likely to weaken its alliance with Rome and make it vulnerable to attacks from its two powerful neighbours.

Hopefully some agreement with the Pelagists, although the latter are likely to have to give up a lot of their own values in terms of the importance of good lives rather than obedience to the clerical authority. I wonder if people seeking to prevent this and also the persecution that is bound to follow could decide to try heading west as well although they have no easy way to get across the Atlantic and would have to go some way south of the current Irish settlements which I think given the currents would mean somehow reaching virtually the Canaries before heading west.

Anyway another good chapter. Constantine attempts to square the circle of bickering sects and secure a stronger legal and moral position for the imperial throne but its taking up a hell of a lot of time and resources.

Of course the other question is what is happening elsewhere in the world?
 

ATP

Well-known member
More like the latter I'd say, even if they are naturally in decline from having come under Islamic power. The Muslims are supporting the 'heretical' strands of Christianity over the orthodox bishoprics but they haven't gotten around to coming down really hard on the latter yet, so at this point I'd say Alexandria & Babylon are like stronger versions of the RL Greek Orthodox Patriarchates of Alexandria & Jerusalem, complete with having their patriarchs still reside in their respective seats akin to the latter's after one was found to succeed Sophronius in 681. (Of course this could easily change, as you can see from this latest chapter Nusrat al-Din's beginning to turn the screws on non-Muslims even as he's trying to build support among non-Arab Muslims - God knows things won't be good if the Romans themselves run into internal problems and thus can't intervene immediately)

Pretty much, yep. Per the chapter's title, while there hasn't been a lot of action (at least not for Christendom) the important foundations for a lot of future developments are being laid down now. From the ecumenical council hitting a lot of topics (at this rate it'll probably be several ecumenical councils since there's too much to try to get done in one sitting), to the Muslims' internal infighting, to the Khazars taking in Jews (also unlikely to be the last wave of exiles since the Mel Gibson level is about as friendly & tolerant as medieval Christendom will probably get re: Judaism, while the Jews in turn working with the Romans' enemies to get back at them further sets up a toxic feedback loop) - it's all planned to go places, some of those places being closer than others.


1.So,we have still united Chritianity,and HRE with german traditions/thing and rights of subjects/
to be honest,it was slavic tradition,too - wiec was slavic thing,and slavic rulers must respect their subjects laws.
Certainly better then eastern approach.

2.We have cardinals to elect popes - good,no pornocracy here.Rome nobles could fuck themselves.

3.Muslims try to create multiracial empire.Arabs would not like that.When we get turkish sultans?

4.It seems,that we get assasins here.When assasin sect?

All interesting,BUT - when africans would discover searoad to Carribean,and germans searoad to Baltic sea?
Cineese should eventually discover Australia and Madagascar,and Japan Nort America,too.
 
719-721: Dueling Dragons, Part I

Circle of Willis

Well-known member
The Council of Miletus spent the first half of 719 on building atop the foundation for a common understanding of the filioque established last year. After seven months of careful deliberations the Roman cardinal-bishop Volusio Venusto (Lat.: 'Volusius Venustus') of Palestrina, the Carthaginian envoy Gradzéanu of Yunéga, Bishop Hyakinthos of Miletus itself (spearheading the conciliatory faction among the Greek bishops), the head Antiochene representative Bishop Stephen of Laodicea-in-Syria, Jerusalem's herald Bishop Theophilos of Nazareth, and the representatives sent by the lost Alexandrian & Babylonian sees (respectively Athanasios of Metelis[1] & Ephraim of Amida, the latter of whom was in the strange position of living under Roman authority while his superior the Patriarch was still stuck under Islamic rule) finally formulated a compromise position which could appease all parties involved.

The 'Per Filium' doctrine, inspired by the teachings of old African theologians such as Tertullian and Augustine as well as Saint Cyril of Alexandria, amended the relevant Nicene Creed section to read "Et in Spiritum Sanctum, Dominum et vivificantem, qui ex Patre procedit per Filium, qui cum Patre, et Filio simul adoratur et cum glorificatur" – "And in the Holy Ghost, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father through the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified". The hope of its architects was that this revision would appease both the pro-filioque Westerners by reaffirming the consubstantiality of the Trinity, while still formulated in such a manner as to conform to the sensibilities of the Easterners. A veritable mountain of evidence from the hands of the Church Fathers had been gathered to support this doctrine and indeed provide its wording in a virtually word-for-word match, including writings by Cyril of Alexandria and other Eastern Church Fathers & theologians whose bones now lay in enemy-occupied territory. Consequently, most of the assembled bishops ratified 'Per Filium' as the first canon of the Council of Miletus, one after another.

Unfortunately for all involved, a faction of 'rigorist' hard-liners from the Patriarchate of Constantinople nearly derailed the proceedings by maintaining that the formula was still too close to the unacceptable old form of the filioque, insufficiently grounded in Scripture and continued to underestimate the Holy Spirit's role in the Trinity. Led by Bishop Anastasios of Thessalonica, they refused to affix their signature onto the Per Filium, which presented a dangerous complication since church councils needed unanimous agreement to canonize dogma. In so doing they provoked the rare wrath of Constantine VI: the Emperor was still a man after all, and one whose thus-far incredible patience was not without bounds. After two weeks passed in which the rest of Christendom's gathered bishops (and in the last few days, even a direct command from Patriarch Nicholas of Constantinople) were unable to sway the rigorists in a series of increasingly heated debates, Constantine – infuriated beyond his mortal limit by the dawning realization that these holdouts might render the past five years pointless and further fracture Christianity with their obstinance – had the council locked in the basilica of Miletus and provided with naught but bread and water until they obtained a unanimous agreement, which Anastasios and his cohorts finally caved on after 39 days (no doubt filled not only with near-starvation, but also their fellow clergymen impatiently arguing with and eventually assaulting them). Had this maneuver failed, Constantine would have had to do as the first Emperor with his name did after the Council of Nicaea and exile the rigorists, running the obvious risk of at least a localized schism in Greece & Macedonia.

3tx0KlC.jpg

The 'Per Filium' doctrine outlining the Holy Spirit as proceeding from the Father in its hypostatic essence, and eternally shining (or indeed 'proceeding') through the Son unto created order, was carefully constructed to appeal to both East and West. Equally importantly it had to be canonized in an ecumenical council viewed as legitimate by the whole Church, so none could accuse it of having been laid down as a power-play by Rome or Constantinople

With 'Per Filium' unanimously ratified at last, Constantine's clerical allies could now introduce the doctrine of the 'imperial regency' and the family tree linking him through the Hadrian-era Bishop Judah Kyriakos of Jerusalem to Saint Jude (and by extension Jesus) to the Council of Miletus for yet more rounds of debate. On the latter subject, the Augustus had gone with the suggestion made by Clementé de Dornomage making the adelphoi or 'brothers' of Jesus his maternal cousins and Mary of Clopas his aunt, founded in the writings of Saint Jerome: the oddity of there being two sisters named Mary in the same family was overlooked in favor of the necessity of binding the Aloysian dynasty to the Savior of Mankind and his Holy Mother by blood, as was the logistics of a Judean family somehow making it all the way to & propagating in the barbaric wilderness that was Germania Magna at the time of the second century. Indeed that this view of the adelphoi's familial relationship accomplished that objective was why Constantine favored it over the alternative view articulated by Saint Epiphanius of Salamis, who held that they were the sons of Joseph from a previous marriage (making them stepbrothers to Jesus instead), while its preservation of the doctrine of Mary's perpetual virginity (as agreed upon by Orient and Occident alike) was why he chose it over the argument laid out by the fourth-century theologian Helvidius that they were the sons of Mary & Joseph and thus direct half-brothers of Jesus[2].

East of Rome, Nusrat al-Din marched against the Exchangers or Shurat with the young Caliph Hashim in tow, intent on removing this most offensive challenger against the Banu Hashim before finishing up the resistance of the Murji'ites in Persia. His army reinforced by the cities of the Hejaz, who were generally friendlier to the Hashemites than most even in this crisis and who had come to especially detest the Nejdis as bloodthirsty barbarians thanks to the atrocities of Maslamah ibn Yusuf, Al-Din proceeded to defeat the Exchanger forces at the Battle of al-Hinakiyah and the Battle of Unaizah this year. Slowly but surely he advanced upon Maslamah's seat of power at Diriyah, despite constant harassment by parties of fanatical Bedouin raiders in the latter's employ (including the occasional suicide attack on the Hashemite camp with the intent of assassinating both him and Hashim).

The generalissimo's maneuvers were coordinated on the larger scale with those of another one of his captains, fellow Turkic ghulam Abd al-Hafiz, who broke an attempted Shurat siege of Basra early in 719 before beginning to push against their holdings on the eastern shore of the Arabian peninsula. By the year's end, while Al-Din was getting close to Diriyah, Al-Hafiz was already pursuing the Exchangers into the hinterland and had placed their eastern oasis stronghold at Al-Hasa[3] under siege. At the same time, the remaining Alid brothers Abduljalil and 'Al-Arab were scrapping together their final preparations and awaiting help from Arabia to push into India once again, despite their myriad recent tribulations, before their old rival Buddhatala – now on the verge of victory over his hated uncle Rudrasimha – could finish reunifying the Huna state.

7rY9fNF.jpg

The Turkic ghilman of Nusrat al-Din pushing through the Arabian sands to suppress Maslamah ibn Yusuf's rebellion

Come 720, the Augustus Imperator was pleased to learn that unlike the debate over the filioque, which had dragged out for many years, the one over the theological justification for continued imperial rule over the Roman world was moving much more smoothly. In large part this was because the Emperor's authority as the head of the Roman state church was not seriously disputed either in the East or West since Constantine I called the Council of Nicaea, with all the sects throughout history which had rejected imperial headship being fringe heretics of some variety, and Constantine VI was no exception to this long tradition; in that regard proclaiming him to be the 'Prefect of the Earth' and 'Defender of the Faith' was more-so a formalization of the centuries-old status quo than any true innovation. God knows what state the Church might have been in if ever the Pope and at least one of the other Patriarchs were in a position to disagree over who the lawful Emperor was, or even if there was a lawful Emperor at all.

Constantine's agents had to put a good deal more work into finessing their efforts to tie the Domus Aloysiani to the family of Christ, which the bishops were unsurprisingly a lot more skeptical of than the doctrine of the 'imperial prefecture'. After eleven months of arguing with the prelates and refining his position, Clementé eventually managed to strike a compromise between the 'Hieronymean' position favored by himself, his master and the Western bishops on one hand, and the 'Epiphanian' one favored by the Eastern bishops. Respectively two of the adelphoi, Saints James the Less and Jude Thaddeus, were recognized as sons of Mary of Clopas (making them Jesus' maternal cousins – their father's name was acknowledged to just be an alternate spelling of Alphaeus, according to the reckoning of the Western Christians), while Joses and Simon were designated the sons of Joseph from his first wife and thus Christ's stepbrothers (in particular as 'Joses' could be regarded as an alternative form of Joseph, Clementé theorized that he was named after his father, a theory which was borne out by the Gospel of Matthew referring to him with that name).

In that same timeframe, Constantine and his partisans expended much political and financial capital on persuading Christendom's bishops to accept that the bloodline of Saint Jude (having descended into obscurity after the lifetime of Judah Kyriakos) did eventually end up in ancient Trévere after two centuries of traveling, trading and evangelizing along the Roman road network, dredging up all manner of artifacts of purported Judean origin from around the capital with Aloysius' help in the process. There the last of the direct lineage was said to have been a woman five generations removed from Jude who lived in the mid-fourth century, married the pro-Roman King of the Chamavi, and begat two sons with him: the elder being Nebigast, the penultimate ruler of that tribe and the father of the first Arbogast, and the younger being Bauto, the father of the future Eastern Roman Empress Aelia Eudoxia[4]. Arbogast would then have been the senior female-line descendant of Jude Thaddeus and Judah Kyriakos, six generations removed from the latter, and his son Count Arigius of Trévere – the first Christian Arbogasting – fittingly a seventh-generation descendant of the famed Bishop of Jerusalem. Thus the Aloysians did lay claim to being the most senior line of descent from Saint Jude, the maternal cousin of Christ. This was by far the least convoluted and most convincing explanation Clementé could construct, since the closest alternative would have been to posit that the Arbogastings were descendants of Jude in the male line; and that would have meant arguing that this Galilean family not only somehow migrated all the way from Palaestina to the Germanic frontier, but also compelled the Chamavi tribe to accept them as sacred kings supposedly descended from Teiwaz, which the theologian and his master both found to breach all bounds of plausibility.

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The hypothetical first meeting between the King of the Chamavi, grandfather of the first Arbogast, and the last descendant of Jesus Christ's cousin – if indeed it happened, as Constantine VI needed it to

Though Constantine strove mightily to push the Council of Miletus toward an accord on all the points he wished for them to agree upon, he did not forget his longstanding project to harmonize Latin religious services across the West, either. Fortunately, like the cardinal system this was a matter of organization and not doctrine, and thus could be handled entirely through the Roman See without having to expend even more time & capital on bringing the other six Patriarchates around. The Emperor persuaded Pope Vitalian to issue new ecclesiastical regulations requiring Roman speech to be brought back into line with Roman writing, meaning that priests would now have to celebrate Mass entirely in 'proper' Latin – and not even in the form which the Church Fathers would have spoken, but using the classical pronunciation & rules of the Classical Latin which, by this time, had become alien to all but the cultured Senatorial families in Rome. Vitalian's concerns that such a reform would render the Mass completely incomprehensible to the general public, even in most of Italy, were dismissed by the Emperor, who believed he could restore linguistic uniformity to the West given enough time and planned to sponsor cathedral- and monastic-schools to educate priests on how to communicate perfectly under this ancient and high standard.

Rome was not the only nation in Europe wrangling with issues of a religious and political nature at this time, of course. In Britain Constantine's decision to prioritize the filioque and other issues ahead of attempting to reconcile Ephesian theology with Pelagian theology, while arguably necessary and inarguably more helpful to his own dynasty, spelled disaster for the Pendragons – beyond private promises from Constantine & Aloysius to call another church council in the near future precisely to discuss this issue, High King Bedur had been left with no meaningful gain to demonstrate an upside to his policy of pushing Semi-Pelagianism and trying to reconcile with Rome, other than the fact that there was still no war between Britannia and the Holy Roman Empire or its English ally. While past generations would have found no news in that regard to be good news, the Britons had not had to think about such a war or its likely outcome for them in many years, and consequently lost all fear of it: they could now only think that their fool of a king was bowing to and appeasing the ancient Roman oppressor for no reason beyond cowardice, and it seemed to them that said Romans were responding to his entreaties with mocking laughter, treating him as a slave to be ignored or dismissed at will rather than a true sovereign.

Hard-line Pelagian bishops and noblemen had consequently spent the past few years planning a coup, led by the firebrand priest Malcor (Britt.: 'Maelgore') de Gadé[5]; and though they had held off not only to amass their forces and strategize their approach against the Ríodam but also out of fear that the Romans might actually move in with overwhelming force before they could finish their preparations, the apparent reality that this did not happen seemed to them a God-sent opportunity rather than a product of Bedur's prudence – they just had to choose whether to exploit it like thinking men, or cravenly sit back and do nothing after all. So in autumn of 720 the conspirators struck in spite of Bedur's plea for continued patience, assassinating the Ríodam and several of his guards during a hunt in the Sélve Andride[6] (Lat.: Silva Anderida) immediately before sweeping into Lundéne, where Bishop Guí (Lat.: 'Caius') had been simultaneously dealt with by way of poison in his nightly pottage. Proclaiming that the High King had been struck dead by God for his impiety and his persistent folly in seeking an accord with the Romans who all but laughed in his face while sharpening knives behind their backs, the Pelagian zealots went on to denounce the lawful heir and King of Dumnonia Artur (then still in Nantes) as an even more obvious Roman puppet, and intimidated those among the Council of Britain who were not already in on the conspiracy to enthrone his younger brother Madoe (Britt.: 'Madog') as the new Ríodam instead by killing the first few to object to their demands – some by defenestration, others simply by cutting their throats at the Round Table.

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A loyalist of Bedur & Artur's claim stands up to the newly enthroned Madoe and denounces him as a usurper, a brave but futile gesture that has definitely doomed him and probably also his family

Madoe arguably had no choice but to go along with the conspirators' scheme, since his refusal would almost certainly have resulted in them disposing of him and seeking out a more pliant candidate. The same was true of his first edicts, which elevated Malcor to the newly-vacated Bishopric of Lundéne and ordered the extirpation of all Ephesians living in Britannia. But whether his hand was forced or not mattered little to his victims – nearly a thousand Ephesians were massacred in the ensuing pogrom in Lundéne's streets, while the remainder who survived the initial chaos barricaded themselves in their quarter of the city in an effort to hold out until the Romans came to save them. Speaking of which, Madoe's complicity or lack thereof in this scheme similarly mattered not to the continental Augustus and his Caesar, who determined that these Britons had foolishly chosen the path of pain to reunification with their empire: Artur was persuaded to accept baptism into the Ephesian Church, and Aloysius marshaled the Treverian army for an invasion across the Channel – had their chosen claimant refused to convert, he was to invade anyway and directly annex Britain as an assortment of provinces rather than install Artur as a federate king – while Constantine called Æthelwine, King of the English, to arms so that together they might strike down the common enemy of Rome and England at long last. In any case, once crowned, Madoe could hardly back down from the brewing conflict and seemed to commit to his duties as Ríodam with a grim fervor.

In the lands of the Caliphate, while the Hashemite loyalist armies continued to concentrate against Maslamah ibn Yusuf's insurgents in the Nejd – over the course of this year Nusrat al-Din overcame fierce resistance & nonstop harassment by the latter's Bedouin followers to finally reach and begin investing Diriyah, while Abd al-Hafiz stormed Al-Hasa after thirteen months of siege and put all the defenders who hadn't already died from starvation to the sword. Almost as importantly as these struggles close to Islam's heartland however, the Alids finally attempted another invasion of India: their army was still not exactly in the best shape, to say the least, but the elimination of most of this cadet branch's brood had reduced their previously-crippling disunity of command to a manageable level and with Buddhatala on the verge of victory over Rudrasimha, Abduljalil & 'Al-Arab knew their window of opportunity to strike against the Hunas (and restore some measure of Hashemite prestige) with any success was fast closing. After bursting past the Thar Desert Abduljalil pushed straight east toward Kannauj, burning and looting whatever was still left after his first rampage through the area, while 'Al-Arab drove past the Rann of Kutch while it was still mostly dry and fought his way down the coast of Gujarat with naval support from the loyalist-held port of Muscat ('Moscha' to the Romans), though they were hindered by the onset of the monsoon season later in 720.

To the north, Kundaçiq Khagan died this year: with his passing the generation of Aloysius I, Helena Karbonopsina and Abd al-Rahman ibn Qasim was no more among Western Eurasia's leading powers. In his last days the Khagan of the Khazars had dictated the partition of his realm between his three sons Balgichi, Bulan and Kayqalagh – Balgichi was to inherit the capital of Atil and Khazar lands east of the Volga (and would also be recognized as the paramount Khagan while his brothers were mere subordinate 'Khans'), Bulan the western steppes & Caucasus, and Kayqalagh Khazar Chorasmia, Khorasan and Transoxiana to the southeast. Naturally, this arrangement collapsed within weeks of his being laid to rest under a royal kurgan, as the younger brothers rejected Balgichi's authority over them and Bulan Khan struck the opening blow in the resulting civil war by seizing Atil in a surprise attack, the speed of which had made his victory nearly bloodless – fewer than a hundred men died before the town's defenders yielded, and a few of his brother's most obstinate partisans who had been captured were executed after refusing to hail him as the new Khagan.

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Balgichi flanked by Bulan and Kayqalagh, riding together as brothers for the final time during their father's last days

Come 721, the Council of Miletus concluded its final rounds of debates and revisions just as the stormclouds of war began to pour out their crimson torrent over Britannia. The bishops gathered in this ecumenical council had given their unanimous agreement, secured one way or another, on the following canons:
  • The text of the Nicene Creed was updated to describe the Holy Spirit as proceeding from the Father through (not 'and') the Son, in line with the words of assorted Church Fathers from Basil of Caesarea and Cyril of Alexandria in the Orient to Tertullian, Jerome and Augustine in the Occident. ('Per Filium')
  • The Roman Emperor was reaffirmed in his role as overall head of the (Ephesian) Church; moreover he was further acknowledged as the earthly viceroy of Jesus Christ, the King of Kings, and thus responsible for defending the true faith against all evil until the end of days and the Second Coming. If the Pope can be said to be the Vicar of Christ, then surely the Augustus must be acknowledged as holding the one rank in government higher than that of vicarius while still being lower than that of the sovereign monarch himself – Praefectus Terrae, 'Prefect of the Earth', and also Fidei Defensor or 'Defender of the Faith'. ('Civitas Dei')
  • Further solidifying the above, the Domus Aloysiani was acknowledged as authentic descendants of Saint Jude Thaddeus, who in turn was also universally and definitively recognized as a blood-related cousin of Jesus. As the Hashemites boast of their lineage from the final Prophet of God, now the Aloysians – not to be outdone – claim that they are related to his Son the Savior of Mankind as further basis for their role as his earthly regents, although unlike their Islamic rivals their relation did not come by way of direct descent. Though the empire's proper name remained unchanged, it is little wonder that the popularity of the term Sacrum Imperium Romanum or 'Holy Roman Empire' really started to take off after this particular council. ('Genealogia Christi')
To any who still would not accept these new doctrines, this ecumenical council had the same answer that previous councils gave: anathema sit – 'let him be anathema'. The Roman See also finalized its regulations on the incardination of prominent non-Italian prelates and the exclusive use of Latin-as-written in religious services throughout its jurisdiction, which were published and put into effect around the same time as the Council of Miletus' conclusion. The former was well-received outside of Italy as expected, but as feared, the latter caused much confusion in parishes around the Occident as the masses now found their priests' sermons unintelligible, many priests themselves struggled to pronounce Classical Latin correctly, and proselytization efforts among still-heathen Germanic and Slavic populations slowed due to this disorder. Constantine was adamant that they just had to ride out the initial chaos however, and that things would improve over time as he began to sponsor schools attached to cathedrals and monasteries where the bishops could instruct their priests more effectively.

sHv4Rl3.jpg

Constantine was confident that he could get his linguistic reforms to stick (and thereby revive the popular usage of 'proper' Latin across the West), given enough time to educate the priests of the Roman See. And assuming his son didn't write the entire project off as being more trouble than it was worth after he died, of course

In any case, with the theological foundation for his planned governmental reforms set, Constantine next began to draft his plan to introduce barbarian princes into the ranks of the Senate, and to transform that ancient Roman institution into a legislative body for the entire Empire – federates included. Before any of that could be done however, there was a war to win and a lost province to reconquer. The British accurately sensed danger, and sought to make use of their more professional navy to prevent the Romans from making landfall at all: in springtime a British fleet under Edhérn (Lat.: 'Aeternus') d'Andride[7] mounted a surprise attack on the ships Aloysius Caesar had been gathering for the invasion at Étaples, burning most of the vessels in the harbor and considerably delaying the main Roman attack on Britannia.

Now this setback did not stop Constantine & Aloysius altogether, for they were determined to end the Pelagians as surely as they had done to the Donatists, and felt a victory on this front would go a long way to further enhancing their dynasty's prestige & legitimizing their claim to rule by divine right from on high; but it was still absolutely critical to the British defense plan, buying Madoe time enough to march against the Anglo-Saxon threat bearing down from the north without being immediately crushed by the Romans. Æthelwine and the English chose not to sit around in their own lands and wait for Aloysius to arrive, for fear that the British would devastate their kingdom if allowed to strike first, but instead took the initiative and marched against Britain in force straight down from Eoforwic after spring's last snows had cleared. This was a nasty surprise to Madoe, who had been hoping the English would attack southeastward from Lincylene so he could either engage them in the favorable terrain of the Fens or on the Fosse Way. In the first clash between the red dragon of Britannia and the white dragon of England, his northern marcher lords were routed before the English advance at the Battle of Mandésede[8], where three berons ('barons') were felled and Comid ('Count') Guítri (Britt.: 'Gwydre') de Venon[9] was captured. Had the Romans been able to land around mid-year, Britannia would have lost before the war could even be said to have truly begun.

The Ríodam (previously in the middle of efforts to convince the Ephesians in his capital to surrender, a task made much more difficult by Bishop Malcore's insistence that he kill them all and public exhortation of the Pelagian mobs & troops to do the same) was left with no choice but to meet the English threat on the road northwest of Lundéne, despite the positioning of Æthelwine's host having also made it impossible for his Cambrian reinforcements to link up with him in any way except by going right through them. Nevertheless, the dutiful young High King made do with his personal legions – fewer than 3,000 men, divided into approximately 1,500 knights (Bry.: cavaliers) and 1,300 royal longbowmen (Bry.: sagétars rígal) – as well as those levies of southern Britannia which he had been able to muster. In all, he brought about 9,000 men to fight 12,000 Anglo-Saxons at the Battle of Magovénde[10]. The Britons' advantages still lay in their missile troops and cavalry: their longbowmen were better shots than the Englishmen's own archers, and while their foe had developed a well-trained cavalry corps, Madoe had still brought more than twice as many horsemen to this battle than Æthelwine did (his 1,500 knights having been reinforced by an additional 700 noblemen and their retinues from southeastern Britannia, while the English fielded around 1,000 Roman-trained heavy horsemen of their own).

The English advanced in a slow but well-ordered shield-wall, the discipline to hold together under heavy British fire having been reinforced by Roman drill instructors over the preceding years. The outnumbered and largely qualitatively inferior British infantry would have been done for had it not been for Madoe managing to lead their cavalry to victory over the English horsemen in a ferocious fight to the right of the English main line, after which the Ríodam led an attack on the now-exposed flanks of the Anglo-Saxon foot formation; the great courage and leadership-by-example which he demonstrated, in spite of his youth and inexperience, inspired his troops to fight on to victory and won him much respect from them as a true Pelagian king. The English fell back slowly while maintaining said formation, still fighting bravely themselves despite having been put at a disadvantage & defiantly withstanding repeated British charges and then arrow-storms, even after Æthelwine himself was fatally injured by an arrow to the face after he lifted his helmet's mask for a drink.

z9SXPoP.jpg

The English forming a shield-wall to resist the missiles and charges of their British enemies

Nightfall marked the end of hostilities and allowed the English to retreat, too badly bloodied to push on toward Lundéne but still in good enough shape that they were able to avoid getting crushed flat between Madoe's main host and his Cambrian reinforcements. Under Æthelwine's successor Æthelstan the English continued to fight Madoe across central Britannia for much of 721, and while they were ultimately pushed off of British territory toward the end of the year, these battles & skirmishes further sapped Britannia's strength while that of the Romans across the Channel only grew. As overall commander of the invasion army, Aloysius Caesar had marshaled not just the full power of the Treverian exercitus but also contributions from every single one of the Germanic federate kingdoms and Ephesian Brittany in hopes of ending this war quickly, such that he could expect to have 40,000 men at his back by the time the weather allowed for campaigning next year; a force so formidable that Madoe's only possible hope of defeating it would be to not fight it at all, by having his admirals continue to ensure no Roman fleet could ferry these legions onto British soil.

In the east, loyalist Hashemite forces spent 721 slowly but surely grinding the resistance of the al-Shurat down to dust. Nusrat al-Din's army withstood months of relentless Exchanger harassment and an unexpected flash flood in the Wadi al-Arad[11] to first be reinforced by Abd al-Hafiz, and then breach the defenses of Diriyah so that they could take the rebel bastion over weeks of ferocious close combat, going from tent to tent and house to house. Resistance on the part of the defenders was fanatical and Maslamah ibn Yusuf refused all offers to surrender (even personally killing any among his retinue who suggested giving up), so the Hashemite troops had little choice but to kill just about everyone they encountered short of infants and very young children. Still, eventually the weight of their numbers and the superior equipment & experience of the ghilman won out over the burning zeal of the Exchangers.

Maslamah himself went down fighting, after which an exhausted Al-Din had his corpse quartered and the pieces sent out across the Caliphate so that all may witness the fate of any fool who persists in rebellion against the Prophet's family, prior to marching on to Persia next. This military defeat did not permanently suppress the teachings of the al-Shurat however, for some of Maslamah's kindred and companions had spread out well beyond Diriyah before the fortress came under siege and found receptive audiences among other Bedouin clans. It may have been crushed for now, but the movement would survive underground and resurface in future centuries, often under new names but always having some combination of the same fundamental doctrines – an extreme emphasis on austerity & puritanical conduct, militarism, intolerance in general (even by the standards of the eighth century) and a great hatred for anything resembling idolatry or the muddling of the Quran's teachings in particular, whether it be foreign influence or even just the hadiths.

Beyond the frontier, Abduljalil ibn Ali had successfully exploited the Hunas' continued fratricidal division & distraction to capture and sack Kannauj, an endeavor in which he had previously failed; once prosperous under the rule of the later Huna emperors, the city which they had called 'Mahodaya' was devastated and most of its population massacred or enslaved by the Muslims, who also leveled the many Buddhist monasteries built in & around it by the Hunas. 'Al-Arab meanwhile set just about every unfortified settlement in Kutch and Sorath to the torch and carried off his share of plunder and slaves, and also laid waste to the city of Bhillamala[12]; but he did not stick around to establish his rule in Gujarat on account of facing increasingly determined resistance by the rajputs and kshatriya of this land, most notably Karnadeva of Lāṭa – a devout Hindu who capitalized on both the weakness of the Hunas and the devastation of the Islamic invasion sparing his land, located in southeastern Gujarat, to organize the foundation of a new kingdom which would resist both the Buddhists and the Muslims. The Alid brothers instead rejoined their forces in preparation to cross over the Ganges, while Buddhatala finally cornered Rudrasimha (abandoned by his remaining partisans after his many defeats and acts of cowardice) near Pāvā[13] and had his hated uncle executed by elephant, freeing him to refocus whatever strength the Hunas had left against the interlopers.

3wWRr9c.png\

Abduljalil's handiwork in Kannauj

Among the Khazars, the warring sons of Kundaçiq had spent the winter and early spring months organizing their partisand and gathering allies. Balgichi Khagan, being the son of Kundaçiq's Khazar first wife Chichäk and lord over the parts of the Khaganate least affected by either the influx of Jews or Buddhist Tegregs & Eftals, aligned himself with traditionalist forces opposing both. Irene's elder son Bulan Khan, based in the west and now in control of Atil, had allied himself with the Jewish refugees – even recruiting one Isaac ben Judah (formerly of Utéga[14]) as his personal physician and taking the latter's daughter Rachel as a concubine, later a full wife – and counted on the learned engineers & scholars among them to provide his hordes with a technological edge, in addition to recruiting Roman and Sclaveni mercenaries from the Tauric Peninsula[15]. And finally, Irene's younger son Kayqalagh Khan relied on the Buddhists who still populated Khorasan, including numerous Tegreg descendants and refugees fleeing Islamic rule and the more recent discord within the Banu Hashim down south.

Once the snow and frost cleared, it was time for the brothers to launch into their fratricidal frenzy. Balgichi had the poor luck of being stuck in-between the sons of Irene, who naturally ganged up on him while avoiding conflict with one another for the time being. He moved against Bulan first, hoping to regain Atil, but the latter had purged the Khazar capital of his sympathizers while directing Jewish engineers to improve the city's fortifications. Consequently Atil held out against his horde while Bulan had ample time to organize his own forces, which then went on to attain victory in the Battle of the Lower Volga. It was also in this year, and in fact around the same time as that setback for the eldest of Kundaçiq 's sons, that Kayqalagh crushed the southern division of Balgichi's army as it tried to invade Chorasmia at the Battle of Aibuiir-Kala and recruited many of the survivors he found trying to hole up in that ruined fortress to his own cause.

3gvLBxJ.png

Bulan's Khazar warriors celebrating their victory over those of Balgichi under the walls of Atil

====================================================================================

[1] Fuwwah.

[2] The 'Hieronymean' view expressed by Saint Jerome is also the Catholic Church's official position on the relationship of the 'Brothers of Jesus' to Jesus & Mary. An alternative theory making Clopas Joseph's cousin, and thus eliminating the oddity of two Marys being sisters in the same family, does not appear to have emerged prior to modern times, but even if it had been around in this alt-700s Constantine would've dismissed it because it has the same problem the Orthodox-favored 'Epiphanian' theory does (not making his dynasty blood relatives of Jesus).

[3] Hofuf.

[4] This part about Flavius Bauto having a brother named Nebigast who became the King of the Chamavi, and Nebigast being Arbogast's father rather than Bauto himself (the traditional position first laid out by seventh-century historian John of Antioch), comes from the hypothesis laid out by late French historian Michel Rouche. A comparison of Arbogast's place in the Frankish royal family tree under both theories can be found on his French-language Wikipedia page.

[5] Shadwell. The Latin origin of this Brydany name would have been 'Vadis' (simply, 'shallows').

[6] The Weald.

[7] Anderitum – Pevensey.

[8] Manduessedum – Mancetter.

[9] Venonae – High Cross.

[10] Magiovintum – Fenny Stratford.

[11] Wadi Hanifa.

[12] Bhinmal.

[13] Fazilnagar.

[14] Utica.

[15] The Crimean Peninsula.

My own timeline seems to be the best place for my 1,000th post on the Sietch! :)
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
Many had reached such milestone, but I doubt anyone reached in such grand style.

had the council locked in the basilica of Miletus and provided with naught but bread and water until they obtained a unanimous agreement

What historians don't mention is that Constantine came up with this idea when he was informed of the tab these clergymen have racked up.

Vitalian's concerns that such a reform would render the Mass completely incomprehensible to the general public, even in most of Italy

As in OTL, he was completely right.
 

stevep

Well-known member
Well its been a massive waste of time but Constantine has got an agreement that holds the entire structure together for a while longer and also a fictional ancestry for him that strengthens his families hold on imperial power. It might also mean his successors have a strong enough position to stamp down on any future papacy that claims primacy over the imperial throne. However several years have been lost while he could have been strengthening the empire and pressing a weakened and divided Islam. Coupled with division in the rump Huna empire - which it seems could never get a break and is probably now in its last stages with a resurgent Hinduism as well as expansionist and brutal Islam threatening it. Then there's also the problem of the Khazar's undergoing a nasty civil war. Islam like the empire is dodging many potential disasters.

The Pelagiaic state is entering its final desperate stage with a brutal final serious of battles where overwhelming numbers will prove too much for them. The actions of their own fanatics coupled with the fanaticism of the reunified imperial church means its not going to be pleasant. Also I wonder if the Angles will find having an expansive empire on their doorstep a less than safe position.

I also think that Vitalian's concerns will prove correct, as they did OTL. Apart from anything else its too much in the interests of the assorted institutions to maintain the level of control that this splitting of the bible from the population gives them. Plus given the technology of the time and the way people will cling to their own languages and customs it would be hugely difficult even with the best of intentions to impose a standard language, especially such a distant one on the entire empire.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Chazars would unite.Hopefully under buddhist,jewish Chazars again would be boring.

Muslims would unite,too - but,not fast enough to crush Chazars and HRE.

Pelagians would fall,only question is if Britons would keep their state.If enough nobles change sides,it is possible.
But,we coud have remnants running on ships to America,and finding new heaven south.
Maybe they even found and capture some city-state? Tolteks should arleady exist.Mayans existed ,but - too far.

Church would remain united as long as HRE remain united.Till mongol invasion?
Till then,they should assimilate saxons and all slavic tribes.
Reopen Amber road,too.
Vikings should not be problem for them.

About Vikings - only safe victim for them would be irish.HRE would help and annex them as a result.
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
My guess is that while Balgich will get crushed by his brothers, but Bulan and Kayqalagh will not be strong enough to prevail over each other, so Khazars will remain divided into jewish and buddhist tribe.
 

stevep

Well-known member
My guess is that while Balgich will get crushed by his brothers, but Bulan and Kayqalagh will not be strong enough to prevail over each other, so Khazars will remain divided into jewish and buddhist tribe.

Its definitely a possibility, especially since as full brothers they could well decide that another round of civil war would be too costly for both of them and peaceful co-operation would be better.

However I get the feeling that Bulan will end up on top, whether with another round of fighting or simply because Kaygalagh's empire is too fragile and exposed, especially to further Islamic expansion.
 

ATP

Well-known member
My guess is that while Balgich will get crushed by his brothers, but Bulan and Kayqalagh will not be strong enough to prevail over each other, so Khazars will remain divided into jewish and buddhist tribe.
Certainly most interesting.

Its definitely a possibility, especially since as full brothers they could well decide that another round of civil war would be too costly for both of them and peaceful co-operation would be better.

However I get the feeling that Bulan will end up on top, whether with another round of fighting or simply because Kaygalagh's empire is too fragile and exposed, especially to further Islamic expansion.

More likely,but boring.Unless jews decide to ally with muslims becouse of their hate for christians.
Possible,considering that orthodox jews follow Talmud,which descript Jesus as magican and son of whore.

Question is,would muslims agree to alliance? for them both Jesus and Holy Mary are kind of saints.

P.S Orthodox jews follow Talmud,which is silly hate-book,but till 10th century in Spain many jews still followed Tora.And was wiped out by orthodox jews under muslim occupation.
Here,if they convert Chazars,we could have state of normal jews,which could made honest alliance with muslims.
 

shangrila

Well-known member
Maybe the English will be the first fully voluntary Federate. With Constantine giving Federates representation in the central government and Church, there may come a time when Ephesian monarchs might find Federate status more prestigious than independence, so they can sit in sessions of the Senate in Rome like the cool kids. At least the English, whose aristocracy are likely to get socially surrounded by various Federates with Britannia's federalization and the religious links with the Continental Germans.
I also think that Vitalian's concerns will prove correct, as they did OTL. Apart from anything else its too much in the interests of the assorted institutions to maintain the level of control that this splitting of the bible from the population gives them. Plus given the technology of the time and the way people will cling to their own languages and customs it would be hugely difficult even with the best of intentions to impose a standard language, especially such a distant one on the entire empire.
Well, it's not the entire empire, but just the territories of the Roman patriarchate. So the Greeks are obviously out, but so are the Romance speaking Africans and Hispanics. Not sure whether that would accelerate the separation of African or not.

We are talking essentially Italy, Gaul, and Dalmatia being affected where Latin is spoken natively. That's not impossibly large for keeping under a single dialect even in premodern times, as long as the Empire keeps the roads and seaways clear. The North China Plain is larger and more populous and historically spoke more or less the same tongue.
 

stevep

Well-known member
Maybe the English will be the first fully voluntary Federate. With Constantine giving Federates representation in the central government and Church, there may come a time when Ephesian monarchs might find Federate status more prestigious than independence, so they can sit in sessions of the Senate in Rome like the cool kids. At least the English, whose aristocracy are likely to get socially surrounded by various Federates with Britannia's federalization and the religious links with the Continental Germans.

Well, it's not the entire empire, but just the territories of the Roman patriarchate. So the Greeks are obviously out, but so are the Romance speaking Africans and Hispanics. Not sure whether that would accelerate the separation of African or not.

We are talking essentially Italy, Gaul, and Dalmatia being affected where Latin is spoken natively. That's not impossibly large for keeping under a single dialect even in premodern times, as long as the Empire keeps the roads and seaways clear. The North China Plain is larger and more populous and historically spoke more or less the same tongue.

That might be an option for the Anglo-Saxon's with both the lure of such influence within the empire and the threat that "if not expect a visit from the legions".

Ah thanks. Missed that point so its a much smaller area. Was thinking it would also include most of the rest of the western empire. Still think it would be a challenge given there are a lot of people who would have to change their primary tongue, whether because their not Latin speaking or they speak a 'vulgar' form of it.
 

stevep

Well-known member
One thing that occurred to me the other day, with the empire and clergy so tightly linked here. It could make the conquest of the rest of Europe markedly tougher and bloodier.

OTL while it had no great benefit for the masses conversion to Christianity was often attractive to rulers because the centralised nature of the clergy carried over into other political organizations. A king who could claim to rule by divine right having been anointed by the clergy might have to bow to the local clergy - albeit much of the time finding a fair amount of wiggle room - have much more control over their subjects and can more easily suppress local centres of alternative power such as traditional councils and regional right.

Here however Constantine has clearly tied the church to his dynasty. As such accepting Christianity means at least to a degree also accepting the higher authority of the imperial dynasty over the local rulers and their subjects. As such rulers might be less willing to convert, or for the more intelligent ones to oppose attempts at conversion.
 

shangrila

Well-known member
Well, it would be a matter of degrees. The historical Roman Emperors were heads of Church, considerably more than what has been formalized here for the Byzantines, which didn't stop conversions to Orthodoxy by outright mortal enemies of the Empire like the Bulgarians. As were the Holy Roman Emperors, who made very heavy use of bishoprics to control their secular vassals. Sometimes, the cultural prestige just outweighs other considerations, and that would only be higher with a mightier, more unified Ephesian empire. Fighting over the loyalty of Church officials who also are government officials would of course be a thing, which happened in Bulgaria and Russia and most famously the investiture controversy in the historical HRE.

And the historical Islamic Caliphate being an explicit theocratic monarchy never seemed to harm much the mostly voluntary (and entirely locally driven even for forced) conversion of South East Asia.
 

Circle of Willis

Well-known member
One thing that occurred to me the other day, with the empire and clergy so tightly linked here. It could make the conquest of the rest of Europe markedly tougher and bloodier.

OTL while it had no great benefit for the masses conversion to Christianity was often attractive to rulers because the centralised nature of the clergy carried over into other political organizations. A king who could claim to rule by divine right having been anointed by the clergy might have to bow to the local clergy - albeit much of the time finding a fair amount of wiggle room - have much more control over their subjects and can more easily suppress local centres of alternative power such as traditional councils and regional right.

Here however Constantine has clearly tied the church to his dynasty. As such accepting Christianity means at least to a degree also accepting the higher authority of the imperial dynasty over the local rulers and their subjects. As such rulers might be less willing to convert, or for the more intelligent ones to oppose attempts at conversion.
Yeah, Ephesian Christianity is pretty Rome-centric and Emperor-centric, being (what I hope comes across as) a logical evolution of the Christian Church as the Roman state religion after Constantine I and Theodosius I. In practical terms the Romans are unlikely to actually physically conquer up to, say, the Dnieper or Volga, but if the peoples in that region convert to this orthodox branch of Christianity they will have by default recognized the Aloysian Emperor as the ultimate head of the Christian community they just joined.

It may not be too much of a problem early on, since the surviving (H)RE still commands a lot of prestige (and also controlling most markets) as basically being the high civilization of Europe while the various peoples it's trying to convert are still disorganized tribes for the most part (and the ones who have started or already finished forming into cohesive kingdoms, like England & Poland or the federate South Slavic principalities, did so under Roman influence in the past). But as those other guys get stronger and better organized it's probable that they'll start looking for ways to get out from under the Aloysians' shadow.

I imagine such moves would take after what the Bulgarian and Rus' churches did with just seeking autonomous national churches under their own metropolitan archbishop, which was how they dealt with the also very-Emperor-centric Orthodox Church in the Middle Ages without totally breaking from Constantinople. But if anyone ever gets strong enough to claim the title of Emperor (and thereby directly challenge the Aloysian head of the Ephesian communion for that office) it would pretty much mean schisming by default, since the Ephesians recognize only one Emperor and by extension head-of-the-church.

I should also clarify that although the airs Constantine's putting on are a bit loftier than the medieval standard, the current Ephesian arrangement is actually less caesaropapistic than the RL Byzantine Orthodox Church. The Emperors have so far accepted the ecumenical council as the only body that can issue legitimate ecclesiastical edicts & new church canons, even if it takes forever for them to do so (ie. with the filioque just now), while historically Eastern Emperors as early as Zeno were unilaterally issuing decrees on church affairs (the Henotikon in his case, and it could get a lot worse than that - Constans II tried to resolve the Monothelite controversy by banning discussion of it entirely via the Type of Constans, and had Pope Martin I tortured to the point that he died soon afterward for breaching this regulation). Ironically a self-proclaimed rival 'Emperor' trying to use his own national church as a base from which to challenge the Aloysian one in Trier could easily end up becoming a more overt tyrant in this department, since they're much less likely to (and arguably can't because a majority of the Patriarchs are unlikely to recognize them as legitimate) go through the whole process of church councils when they want to change something about religious doctrine.
 

shangrila

Well-known member
Islam also gives examples of the union of religious and political authority being an attraction for monarchs far away from the Caliphs (like SEAsia or West Africa). Where they convert to Islam and get a governmental title from Baghdad. The prestige of a title from a mighty state allows them to centralize power in their own state, while the distance means they don't really face any supervision. They often then wage holy wars on their pagan neighbors loudly proclaiming that it's on behalf of the far away Caliph.

See also the spread of the title Tsar across the South and East Slavs replacing less prestigious native titles from when the Byzantines named monarchs Caesar upon conversion to Orthodoxy.
 

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