Tucker Carlson Leaving Fox News

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Tucker is isn't lying here nor is he going through every option either its basically him leading the witness on why this is Ukraines fault.

He is right in that people shouldn't view Zelensky as a Saint but at the same time people should also realize that Ukraine is in a total war against a state that questions their very right as a culture and a nation to exist.

An example of leading the witness found during this segment is his bringing up Lindsey Graham talk with Zelensky and making his words out to be more heinous, he does it by making quick cuts with little context given with time to process or attempts at speculating to understand it

What Graham is obviously stating is that the money given to Ukraine is "well spent" is well spent in helping to keep Ukraine independent and that's that.

I like Tucker at times but on Ukraine I can't disagree with his presentation more.
 

Bacle

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Tucker is isn't lying here nor is he going through every option either its basically him leading the witness on why this is Ukraines fault.

He is right in that people shouldn't view Zelensky as a Saint but at the same time people should also realize that Ukraine is in a total war against a state that questions their very right as a culture and a nation to exist.

An example of leading the witness found during this segment is his bringing up Lindsey Graham talk with Zelensky and making his words out to be more heinous, he does it by making quick cuts with little context given with time to process or attempts at speculating to understand it

What Graham is obviously stating is that the money given to Ukraine is "well spent" is well spent in helping to keep Ukraine independent and that's that.

I like Tucker at times but on Ukraine I can't disagree with his presentation more.
Tucker is directly lying by saying everyone know Ukraine blew the Nord Stream, so of course it had to be Ukraine who did this, and that because Russia built the dam, they have no reason to blow it.

Tucker is in this for clicks and views, not accurate facts or context, and discounts most everything from the Ukrainian side, but takes Russian shit at face value 90% of the time.

Tucker is worse than useless for anything related to Ukraine.
 

ShieldWife

Marchioness
First new twitter episode is out



Edit:

I've watched it for now, so a tldr for the ten minute clip:

It's obvious Ukraine blew up the dam in Crimea

There are alien craft and hardly anyone is talking about it

Honestly, I still don’t believe in the alien stuff. I need way more evidence than this, which is close to zero evidence. Maybe it’s a deliberate distraction.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
Tucker is directly lying by saying everyone know Ukraine blew the Nord Stream, so of course it had to be Ukraine who did this, and that because Russia built the dam, they have no reason to blow it.

Tucker is in this for clicks and views, not accurate facts or context, and discounts most everything from the Ukrainian side, but takes Russian shit at face value 90% of the time.

Tucker is worse than useless for anything related to Ukraine.
Or maybe your bias is so strong in regards to the Ukraine invasion, that the only conclusion you can come to regarding someone saying something that you disagree with regarding it is that they are a malicious actor.
 

Free-Stater 101

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Tucker is directly lying by saying everyone know Ukraine blew the Nord Stream, so of course it had to be Ukraine who did this, and that because Russia built the dam, they have no reason to blow it.

Tucker is in this for clicks and views, not accurate facts or context, and discounts most everything from the Ukrainian side, but takes Russian shit at face value 90% of the time.

Tucker is worse than useless for anything related to Ukraine.
I don't see why you are biting my metaphorical head off when we are almost or in complete agreement, I agree with the unhighlighted as Carlson is a news anchor and it comes with the position but I strongly disagree on the highlighted.

Tucker's views concerning Ukraine are clouded by personal political bias, his lack of personal military experience and now lack of reputable experts and funds, the guy is using true facts to present the wrong conclusion that he himself came up with based off of his limited and biased understanding.
 

Megadeath

Well-known member
Ukrainians are not citizens of USA, that's why State Department is sacrificing them.
For, surely, without the intervention of the US State department the Ukrainians would have had no interest in fighting the reasonable and peaceful occupation of their country by Russia but would rather have sensibly greeted and submitted to their new fraternal overlords. 🙄
 

Rocinante

Russian Bot
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Tucker is directly lying by saying everyone know Ukraine blew the Nord Stream, so of course it had to be Ukraine who did this, and that because Russia built the dam, they have no reason to blow it.

Tucker is in this for clicks and views, not accurate facts or context, and discounts most everything from the Ukrainian side, but takes Russian shit at face value 90% of the time.

Tucker is worse than useless for anything related to Ukraine.
You're so pro Ukraine and anti Russia that you refuse to look at things rationally. It makes no sense whatsoever for Putin to have done this, but it makes a lot of sense for Ukraine to have done it. Same goes for nord stream.

Some of you spend so much time soaking up pro Ukraine propaganda that pretty obvious things are hard for you to process.

I don't spend a ton of time on either side's propaganda and try to look at things openly and make sense out of events. I think Ukraine doing this is the option that makes BY FAR the most sense. Especially considering that I remember this very idea being floated by Ukraine previously.

But no one wants to say anything that could possibly make Ukraine look like the bad guy. This is war. Ugly shit happens on both sides.

Russia holds Crimea. Has for a long time. I don't buy that Russia has been attacking itself with Nord Stream and this Dam. Not for a second.
 

Free-Stater 101

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You're so pro Ukraine and anti Russia that you refuse to look at things rationally. It makes no sense whatsoever for Putin to have done this, but it makes a lot of sense for Ukraine to have done it. Same goes for nord stream.

Some of you spend so much time soaking up pro Ukraine propaganda that pretty obvious things are hard for you to process.

I don't spend a ton of time on either side's propaganda and try to look at things openly and make sense out of events. I think Ukraine doing this is the option that makes BY FAR the most sense. Especially considering that I remember this very idea being floated by Ukraine previously.

But no one wants to say anything that could possibly make Ukraine look like the bad guy. This is war. Ugly shit happens on both sides.
I somewhat agree but can't we just agree that since we don't know for sure who did it that it's made things a bad situation worse and hope that whatever reason it was blown it helps end the war and suffering for better or worse ASAP?

I mean people are fixating on who to blame when the reality is we don't know and Robo-Hitler could be behind it.
 

Rocinante

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I somewhat agree but can't we just agree that since we don't know for sure who did it that it's made things a bad situation worse and hope that whatever reason it was blown it helps end the war and suffering for better or worse ASAP?

I mean people are fixating on who to blame when the reality is we don't know and Robo-Hitler could be behind it.
Yeah, this is a reasonable take. I can agree here. I lean towards Ukraine having done it, but you're right. Anyone claiming to actually know right now, can't actually know.

Edit: I accidentally said Russia the first time.
 
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Bacle

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I don't see why you are biting my metaphorical head off when we are almost or in complete agreement, I agree with the unhighlighted as Carlson is a news anchor and it comes with the position but I strongly disagree on the highlighted.

Tucker's views concerning Ukraine are clouded by personal political bias, his lack of personal military experience and now lack of reputable experts and funds, the guy is using true facts to present the wrong conclusion that he himself came up with based off of his limited and biased understanding.
I was not biting your head off, I just disagree that Tucker isn't knowingly lying about things.

Tucker only cares about the 'truth' in how it can get him clicks and how he can manipulate it to suite his own preferred narrative.

His views on Ukraine are clouded by far more than political bias; Tucker is like Trump in that he will never admit to being wrong, even when proven wrong.

Or maybe your bias is so strong in regards to the Ukraine invasion, that the only conclusion you can come to regarding someone saying something that you disagree with regarding it is that they are a malicious actor.
No, I can distinguish between bad actors who are deliberately taking what Russia says at face value because they support Russia (Agent23/Animal Noodles/Col. MacGregor), people who are suspicious of the western media/gov, and have left themselves ignorant of facts on the ground due to said suspicions, because of past actions of media/gov, but aren't openly pro-Russia (you, Roci, Rand Paul, RFK Jr.), and people who are politically unwilling to aid Ukraine enough to achieve victory, for what amounts to penny-pinching reasons (Ben Shapiro, the Mises Caucus).

You want to attack me for actually standing up for what I believe is the truth and being willing to clap back at 'friends', and for calling out your own deliberate ignorance on the matter for months.

Because that's all 'friends' here have done when I dare to say 'no, you're wrong, and here's why' in regards to Ukraine; act like they can just dismiss what I say and just listen to people like Tucker without wanting to look deeper into things that are going on or why.

You're so pro Ukraine and anti Russia that you refuse to look at things rationally.
Bullshit, and this is a direct insult for the sake on an insult.
It makes no sense whatsoever for Putin to have done this, but it makes a lot of sense for Ukraine to have done it. Same goes for nord stream.
It make's plenty of sense for Putin to have done this, and I explained why several times, and at several degrees of short term to long term consequences.

Blowing the dam means that when Ukraine cuts the land bridge to Crimea and retakes the area, they will be retaking a desert, not farmland, and there are multiple other ag canal's in sourthern Ukraine that will be dry for years or decades now.

It's a scorched earth measure, how hard is that to understand?
Some of you spend so much time soaking up pro Ukraine propaganda that pretty obvious things are hard for you to process.
And you act like listening to Tucker is the same as following multiple feeds of different types and sources, including seeing what the Russian media social media sphere itself is saying, not just what Ukraine's gov or supporters say.

Maybe if you had come by the War College thread regularly, you would understand this.
I don't spend a ton of time on either side's propaganda and try to look at things openly and make sense out of events.
So you admit you don't actually spend much time looking at details about the war, and just listen to the surface level shit from people like Tucker.

Do you even watch the Perun video or anything about Ukraine except what Tucker and his ilk says?
I think Ukraine doing this is the option that makes BY FAR the most sense. Especially considering that I remember this very idea being floated by Ukraine previously.
Ukraine did hit one of the sluice gates with a single rocket a while back, as part of their attempts to keep Russia from bringing armor across the roadway on top of the dam. That was months and months ago.

Ukraine warned that Russia had mined the dam back in October.



Also, here's some stuff translated from Russian Telegram channels, where they talk about the blowing the dam as part of scorched earth tactics:

But no one wants to say anything that could possibly make Ukraine look like the bad guy. This is war. Ugly shit happens on both sides.
Ukraine isn't the bad guy here, because they are the one being invaded, and yes, war is ugly; that does not excuse acting like Russia's claims can be trusted, or that Tucker is purposefully and willfully keeping his audience ignorant of the larger context around things that might detract from his narrative.
Russia holds Crimea. Has for a long time. I don't buy that Russia has been attacking itself with Nord Stream and this Dam. Not for a second.
Russian civies are already fleeing Crimea in droves after the Kerch bridge was hit, and have been preparing to fight battles in-depth in Crimea based on their defensive lines visible by satellite.

Also, flooding the dam means that trying to cross the river for military actions is much, much harder, and turns the low-lands into swampy messes that are not likely to fully dry for a couple years. The flooding means Russia can leave skeleton units to defend the new shoreline, while moving troops toward any Ukrainian counter-offensive, and they flood the islands near Kherson delta that have been fought over and slowing recaptured by UKR special forces.

Russia/Putin does not expect to hold Crimea in the long run anymore, and are just trying to ensure they are doing as much damage as they can before the Ukrainians retake the area.

I am trying to explain in detail why Russia and Putin gain from the flooding and chaos it's caused, so do you understand now why the idea this was Ukraine, as Tucker claims, seems ridiculous to me.

Edit: And here we have Russian's cheering for the destruction of the Kyiv dam now.
 
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Rocinante

Russian Bot
Founder
I was not biting your head off, I just disagree that Tucker isn't knowingly lying about things.

Tucker only cares about the 'truth' in how it can get him clicks and how he can manipulate it to suite his own preferred narrative.

His views on Ukraine are clouded by far more than political bias; Tucker is like Trump in that he will never admit to being wrong, even when proven wrong.


No, I can distinguish between bad actors who are deliberately taking what Russia says at face value because they support Russia (Agent23/Animal Noodles/Col. MacGregor), people who are suspicious of the western media/gov, and have left themselves ignorant of facts on the ground due to said suspicions, because of past actions of media/gov, but aren't openly pro-Russia (you, Roci, Rand Paul, RFK Jr.), and people who are politically unwilling to aid Ukraine enough to achieve victory, for what amounts to penny-pinching reasons (Ben Shapiro, the Mises Caucus).

You want to attack me for actually standing up for what I believe is the truth and being willing to clap back at 'friends', and for calling out your own deliberate ignorance on the matter for months.

Because that's all 'friends' here have done when I dare to say 'no, you're wrong, and here's why' in regards to Ukraine; act like they can just dismiss what I say and just listen to people like Tucker without wanting to look deeper into things that are going on or why.


Bullshit, and this is a direct insult for the sake on an insult.

It make's plenty of sense for Putin to have done this, and I explained why several times, and at several degrees of short term to long term consequences.

Blowing the dam means that when Ukraine cuts the land bridge to Crimea and retakes the area, they will be retaking a desert, not farmland, and there are multiple other ag canal's in sourthern Ukraine that will be dry for years or decades now.

It's a scorched earth measure, how hard is that to understand?

And you act like listening to Tucker is the same as following multiple feeds of different types and sources, including seeing what the Russian media social media sphere itself is saying, not just what Ukraine's gov or supporters say.

Maybe if you had come by the War College thread regularly, you would understand this.

So you admit you don't actually spend much time looking at details about the war, and just listen to the surface level shit from people like Tucker.

Do you even watch the Perun video or anything about Ukraine except what Tucker and his ilk says?

Ukraine did hit one of the sluice gates with a single rocket a while back, as part of their attempts to keep Russia from bringing armor across the roadway on top of the dam. That was months and months ago.

Ukraine warned that Russia had mined the dam back in October.



Also, here's some stuff translated from Russian Telegram channels, where they talk about the blowing the dam as part of scorched earth tactics:


Ukraine isn't the bad guy here, because they are the one being invaded, and yes, war is ugly; that does not excuse acting like Russia's claims can be trusted, or that Tucker is purposefully and willfully keeping his audience ignorant of the larger context around things that might detract from his narrative.

Russian civies are already fleeing Crimea in droves after the Kerch bridge was hit, and have been preparing to fight battles in-depth in Crimea based on their defensive lines visible by satellite.

Also, flooding the dam means that trying to cross the river for military actions is much, much harder, and turns the low-lands into swampy messes that are not likely to fully dry for a couple years. The flooding means Russia can leave skeleton units to defend the new shoreline, while moving troops toward any Ukrainian counter-offensive, and they flood the islands near Kherson delta that have been fought over and slowing recaptured by UKR special forces.

Russia/Putin does not expect to hold Crimea in the long run anymore, and are just trying to ensure they are doing as much damage as they can before the Ukrainians retake the area.

I am trying to explain in detail why Russia and Putin gain from the flooding and chaos it's caused, so do you understand now why the idea this was Ukraine, as Tucker claims, seems ridiculous to me.

Edit: And here we have Russian's cheering for the destruction of the Kyiv dam now.



No, Russia and Russian sources can't be trusted.

Neither can Ukraine.

It was wrong of Russia to invade Ukraine, but Zelensky is a western puppet, put into power by US meddling, and Ukraine is a corrupt money laundering operation foe the world's elite.

They arent good guys.

That doesn't mean Russia was right to invade, or that I am rooting for Russia. You want to know my honest opinion? I truly don't give a fuck about Ukraine and you can find me from the very beginning of this conflict saying that i don't think this is any of our business.

So no, I'm not rooting for Russia, but I'm not rooting for Ukraine either, and additionally, I don't trust them or their propaganda any more than I trust Russia and theirs.

I think free-starter has brought me a bit more in touch with reality and at most we can say we don't know who did it. You've provided some reasons why Russia might, there's plenty of reasons why Ukraine might have. And I still stand by us not really being able to trust propaganda from either side.


You want to know my big problem with this conflict? One of these countries has a nuclear arsenal. I'm watching an endless path of escalations from both sides, and the escalation path ends with nukes. And no one seems to fucking care.

I want this war to end. If that means Putin doesnt get everything he wants but Zelensky also loses a little bit? So be it. That's the only outcome that I see happening aside from nuclear war. In the meantime hundreds of thousands of humans are being sent into the grinder and dying.

I want this war to end, I dont give a fuck if Ukraine loses a little strip of land as an outcome of negotiations.
 

Bacle

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No, Russia and Russian sources can't be trusted.

Neither can Ukraine.
Wrong, because we can cross-check and cross-examine what happens with Ukraine; we have no such ability with Russia, or at least not to the same degree.

I know Ukraine will use disinfo op's against the Russians, and maintain OPSEC to protect troops; however that is not the same as treating Ukraine as being as untrustworthy as Russia.
It was wrong of Russia to invade Ukraine, but Zelensky is a western puppet, put into power by US meddling, and Ukraine is a corrupt money laundering operation foe the world's elite.
The corruption pre-dates Zelensky, he's hardly a western puppet anymore than someone like Macron or Abe was, and you seem to forget that I saw what happened in 2014 an sense.

Zelensky was elected by his own people partly to root out corruption, and the idea Ukraine's people have any freedom of chioce or will of their own in domestic issues seems lost on you.

And no, Ukraine is not a 'money-laundering operation' for the elite; being fed up with the previous corruption in Ukraine is part of why the people tossed out Russia's puppet in 2014, and resisted Russia's little green men for 8 years.

The Burisma stuff with Biden pre-dates Zelensky's election as well, so you cannot blame him for that.
They arent good guys.
Yes they are, even if the country had previous corruption issues.
That doesn't mean Russia was right to invade, or that I am rooting for Russia. You want to know my honest opinion? I truly don't give a fuck about Ukraine and you can find me from the very beginning of this conflict saying that i don't think this is any of our business.
If you don't give a fuck, why are you so certain that Tucker is giving you the truth of the matter on Ukraine?
So no, I'm not rooting for Russia, but I'm not rooting for Ukraine either, and additionally, I don't trust them or their propaganda any more than I trust Russia and theirs.
You seem to trust Tucker, and he trusts Russia's claims at face value; can you really say that you aren't buying Russian propaganda over what Ukraine says, in that case?

I'm not trying to insult you, and I am trying to walk you through how you have been misled by trusting Tucker on Ukraine.
I think free-starter has brought me a bit more in touch with reality and at most we can say we don't know who did it. You've provided some reasons why Russia might, there's plenty of reasons why Ukraine might have. And I still stand by us not really being able to trust propaganda from either side.
So it's just going to be 'both sides' from you, isn't it?

Let me ask, why do you trust Tucker, his known blind spots on foreign issues, and his financial incentive to keep the same audience he had at FOX, over someone like me who has nothing to gain by doing what I am doing to support Ukraine and yet still calls out the Dems abuses where I see them in domestic politics?
You want to know my big problem with this conflict? One of these countries has a nuclear arsenal. I'm watching an endless path of escalations from both sides, and the escalation path ends with nukes. And no one seems to fucking care.
Ukraine would have had nukes too, if it had not sent them back to Russia in the agreement that was supposed to guarantee it's security.

Also, people do care, they just don't take Russian nuke threats at face value anymore, because Russia keeps threatening nukes over every piece of hardware that goes to Ukraine.

Tucker is one of the very few who take Russian nuke threats seriously anymore; I mean Russia threatened nukes under Trump when he sold Ukraine Javelin missiles for the first time.

Russia also has the CCP and India to worry about, and if Putin uses a nuke, he loses the CCP and India as even slight allies. The CCP do not wants Putin to use a nuke, because that would cause Taiwan, Japan, and SK to go nuclear very fast.

The real problem here is you seem to keep taking repeated Russian nuclear bluffs, about almost everything done to aid Ukraine, at face value.
I want this war to end. If that means Putin doesnt get everything he wants but Zelensky also loses a little bit? So be it. That's the only outcome that I see happening aside from nuclear war. In the meantime hundreds of thousands of humans are being sent into the grinder and dying.
That's because you don't follow things on the ground very well, and do not pay attention to the war to the same degree I and others do.

I mean, you've straight up admitted to not paying very good attention to this conflict, so what make you think you ave a good grasp on all the possible outcomes?

Nukes would cost Russia far more than they'd gain, even with their few remaining 'allies'.
I want this war to end, I dont give a fuck if Ukraine loses a little strip of land as an outcome of negotiations.
It's not a 'little strip of land' that Russia wants, they want to push all the way to the Carpathians and into Poland; Ukraine was just the first step and if they keep any of what they have taken, Russia will just try again in the future.

This war will not end this year, or likely next year, and the Ukrainian people have decided they are not going to live under Moscow's boot any longer.

You keep acting like the Ukrainian people have no agency of their own, and like the western public are able to dictate terms to Ukraine.

Edit: Look, even Ziehan is saying this is clearly the Russians.


Edit 2: And never forget that at the end of the day, the dying could end, or at least abate (UXOs are a thing), tomorrow, and all it would take is Putin or his successor to order their troops to cease fire and withdraw behind the 1991 borders.
 
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Marduk

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You want to know my big problem with this conflict? One of these countries has a nuclear arsenal. I'm watching an endless path of escalations from both sides, and the escalation path ends with nukes. And no one seems to fucking care.
YOU DO NOT want to live in a world where it is expected of all leaders, even of NATO member countries, to back down from spoken and unspoken will of any country with nuclear weapons.
Think about it hard. How it would affect the thinking of all the nuclear countries, and many of the still non nuclear ones too.
The same people have spent over a year complaining how sending weapon type x to Ukraine will cause escalation and so on and so on, many from that list were sent, and what did happen? Jack shit.
I want this war to end. If that means Putin doesnt get everything he wants but Zelensky also loses a little bit? So be it. That's the only outcome that I see happening aside from nuclear war. In the meantime hundreds of thousands of humans are being sent into the grinder and dying.
Think 10 years ahead, not 10 months ahead. If the war ends inconclusively, there *will* be another war. Or three. I want the war to end in such a way that Russia will not be starting more wars in the next decade at least.
I want this war to end, I dont give a fuck if Ukraine loses a little strip of land as an outcome of negotiations.
Except that would in fact increase the chances of another war. Appeasement doesn't work, modern and less modern examples abound. If authoritarian countries wit ambitions can start shit and in fact get rewards from it, even if lesser rewards than they intended as a compromise, for every one who gets such a minor victory, they will take their conclusion and start more shit.
 
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LordsFire

Internet Wizard
Except that would in fact increase the chances of another war. Appeasement doesn't work, modern and less modern examples abound. If authoritarian countries wit ambitions can start shit and in fact get rewards from it, even if lesser rewards than they intended as a compromise, for every one who gets such a minor victory, they will take their conclusion and start more shit.
The more people that refuse to recognize this simple truth, the more likely an actual nuclear exchange is.

Bullies don't pick fights they know they'll lose.

But when they sense weakness, they start shit.

It's as true in international politics and war, as it is in the schoolyard.
 

49ersfootball

Well-known member
You keep saying this, but it's blatantly wrong. There are many logical reasons that I and others have mentioned.

There is plenty of motivation for Russia to have done this. Stop trying to pretend otherwise.

It doesn't mean Russia DID IT, just that they had reason to.
Putin wants to up the ante even further against NATO countries as well. Something tells me he's NOT gonna stop.
 

strunkenwhite

Well-known member
You're so pro Ukraine and anti Russia that you refuse to look at things rationally. It makes no sense whatsoever for Putin to have done this, but it makes a lot of sense for Ukraine to have done it. Same goes for nord stream.
So, real question here, are there historical examples of attackers blowing up a dam upstream of a flood zone covering a large geographical area in which they are about to be, or currently, conducting offensive operations?

I'm fairly confident there are historical examples of defenders doing this when the attacker is in that position.
 

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