Spartan303

In Captain America we Trust!
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Osaul
See, this right here is exactly the problem! They wouldn't have been the general candidate without Trump's help, and the Republicans could have won. Trump helped just enough to fuck over everyone.


Trump was running populist candidates. The only other Republican candidate you would get aside from that are Rinos. Rinos winning is almost like voting in a Democrat. Its pointless.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
Trump passed out money like Zimbabwe during covid, directly enabling lockdowns. No, he is most definitely at fault for the lockdowns, along with the early lying from the CDC and FDA that happened under his administration.

As for the regular people, again, you can't afford to tell them to fuck off, because then you are doomed to lose. Or more accurately, you can afford to, it'll only cost you 4 more years of Biden.
Let me ask you this. If you were the President of the United States and and unknown disease that has killed a shit ton of people in China (Because Covid killed millions of people in China before it even got here) was now on US Soil. What would you do when the head of the CDC says we need to lockdown for 2 weeks. No really I see a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking but seriously what would you do when faced with the potential of millions of Americans dying. And the Disease in the home country had already killed millions of people in 2 months. Would you not lockdown in face of a potential bio disaster to an unknown disease? As to the 45% I stand by what I said. Fuck them they can't be reasoned with. They bitch and moan too much. And all they do is complain online. They are not gonna vote GOP anyway so screw them. Focus on people who have an open mind.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
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I've totally countered your points. You just fail to acknowledge them. None of the candidates who ran away from Trump won.
Kemp did.

And you haven't countered any of my points, you've just repeated the same cope again and again, while ignoring the points I am trying to make about non-GOP voters and how trump looks to them.
None of them. The Republican candidates didn't win because Ron DeSantis endorsed them. They won because of Trump. DeSantis just doesn't have the reach yet that Trump does. He is still building his Resume and powerbase by being effective in Florida, and by all accounts he's doing a magnificent job. I acknowledge DeSantis as the future leader of the party. But that day isn't today or even 2024.
Trump's candidates mostly won safe red areas, and flubbed it in areas where they actually had competitive general elections.

Again, you may not like Shapiro, but he did a wonderfully detailed breakdown of which GOP candidates won and which one's lost and what that means for the GOP.

Establishment type GOP candidates did fine, because the majority of the US populace want stability and not revolution, and I may not like it, but RINO's can get swing votes from the middle.
As for Ben Shapiro, he's buying into the MSM argument. But he's never denied being a Never Trumper NeoConservative. His big thing that he wants is a war with Iran to secure Israel. Now, I've got nothing against the Israelis, Beautiful country and wonderful people. Love em, almost married one. But the bottom line is Shapiro is a war hawk who wants to use American Military power and spill American blood to ensure Israel is safe. He wants a war. Trump was a peacemaker, and was more than willing to make peace to ensure stability the world over. He was not willing to make war with Iran to enforce an American led neo-globalist hegemony. That made him an enemy to the NeoConservative Warhawks, of which Ben Shapiro is their lead cheerleader.
Shapiro is also the head of the Daily Wire, which is doing more for the culture war than Trump is now, has the ability to look beyond the GOP base's internal propaganda, and actually look outside the GOP echochambers at what the rest of the US electorate thinks.

Doesn't matter your personal feeling about him Spartan, he's spitting facts the GOP are going to have to reckon with if they want even a chance of making gains in 2024.
Let me ask you this. If you were the President of the United States and and unknown disease that has killed a shit ton of people in China (Because Covid killed millions of people in China before it even got here) was now on US Soil. What would you do when the head of the CDC says we need to lockdown for 2 weeks. No really I see a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking but seriously what would you do when faced with the potential of millions of Americans dying. And the Disease in the home country had already killed millions of people in 2 months. Would you not lockdown in face of a potential bio disaster to an unknown disease? As to the 45% I stand by what I said. Fuck them they can't be reasoned with. They bitch and moan too much. And all they do is complain online. They are not gonna vote GOP anyway so screw them. Focus on people who have an open mind.
Again, that 45% is against Trump, not the GOP or Right as a whole.

Stop conflating two, and be willing to admit Trump's personality is enough to turn people off to him, even if they might vote R for a different GOP candidate.
 

Abhorsen

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Comrade
Osaul
Let me ask you this. If you were the President of the United States and and unknown disease that has killed a shit ton of people in China (Because Covid killed millions of people in China before it even got here) was now on US Soil. What would you do when the head of the CDC says we need to lockdown for 2 weeks. No really I see a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking but seriously what would you do when faced with the potential of millions of Americans dying. And the Disease in the home country had already killed millions of people in 2 months. Would you not lockdown in face of a potential bio disaster to an unknown disease? As to the 45% I stand by what I said. Fuck them they can't be reasoned with. They bitch and moan too much. And all they do is complain online. They are not gonna vote GOP anyway so screw them. Focus on people who have an open mind.
I'd like to say I wouldn't, but who would know. I can tell you a lot of things I wouldn't do though. I wouldn't let the CDC run rampant after they started lying. I wouldn't have allowed massive handouts letting people stay home. I would have actually stuck to telling people what their options were, not using guns to make their choices for them. I wouldn't have given billions to a drug company that paid a million dollars for my inauguration either.

The amount of failures he had is unending in 2020. I can list more and more on request.

Trump was running populist candidates. The only other Republican candidate you would get aside from that are Rinos. Rinos winning is almost like voting in a Democrat. Its pointless.
Well, congrats, you got actual democrats. And lol at thinking Oz or Bolduc aren't RINOs. Oz has been run down enough, but Bolduc is a neocon. Trump endorsed RINOs also. Actually, to be honest, the only non-RINOs you got are the pro liberty ones, otherwise they are all Neocons wearing camo.

As I see it, Trumps just trying to set up an alternate machine (just as corrupt) to the GOP's machine, with him in charge.

Ultimately, while I'd prefer DeSantis, it ain't my party. It's yours. Trump will lose in 2024. When you decide to make his loss in the general election, I'll be voting Dave Smith and will have no sympathy.
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
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Obozny
Let me ask you this. If you were the President of the United States and and unknown disease that has killed a shit ton of people in China (Because Covid killed millions of people in China before it even got here) was now on US Soil. What would you do when the head of the CDC says we need to lockdown for 2 weeks. No really I see a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking but seriously what would you do when faced with the potential of millions of Americans dying. And the Disease in the home country had already killed millions of people in 2 months. Would you not lockdown in face of a potential bio disaster to an unknown disease?

While I think Abhorsen is being a tad harsh on Trump over the closures, given how throughly so many politicians around the world bungled this, he's got a point about the CDC stuff. The second Trump got wind of this "we lied to ensure masks were available for frontline workers/racism is a public health issue" and other two faced crap from public health officials, someone should have been fired.


I wouldn't have allowed massive handouts letting people stay home.

The covix stimulus bills passed with veto-proof majorities, in fact they were nearly unanimous. You don't have the opition to not allow that.

I would have actually stuck to telling people what their options were, not using guns to make their choices for them.

I don't recall the federal government doing anything of the sort.

I wouldn't have given billions to a drug company that paid a million dollars for my inauguration either.

That's ridiculous. Inevitably a company that donated to you is going to be the best choice for something, it's a misuse of taxpayer dollars to not context to them if that happens. Particularly for something like Operation Warp Speed where almost every major and minor drug company was involved.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Trump was running populist candidates. The only other Republican candidate you would get aside from that are Rinos. Rinos winning is almost like voting in a Democrat. Its pointless.

I don't think thats nessarly fair.

The problem right now for both parties is that their self image of themselves is fundamentally wrong.


The republican party at least its leadership thinks of themselves as the establishment as the people who are perserving the system but the fact is. That's wrong, its in fact utterly delusional. The universities, media, and most of the buracracy is in the hands of the left. They simply do not have the insitutional power or cultural power to be an actual establishment.

Their lying to themselves and have been for decades fact is the american conservative movement has been effectively an semi insurgency since FDR. They are deeply uncomfortable with the idea of the republican party being the populist party because it pretty much breaks all the self delusions about their place in the world and that place is not very comforable.


For the democrats well they see themselves as the populist movement the vangaurd of the revolution but lets face facts, when your getting corperate sponsorship, when your able to silence your enemies with an alliance with big tech. When you fucking dominate the culutral insitutions and are able to get your enemies de banked for wrong think.

Your not the plucky rebels your the empire, their the establishment.


Thing is being an establishment party isn't nessarly a bad thing but there are rules to being one, you cant do crazy shit, you have to provide stability. Your not fighting against the man you are the man and you have fucking responsibilities. The democrats are deeply, deeply, deeply hate filled against the Maga crowd because they see them in a very fundamental sense as usurping their role.

Meanwhile because of their self delusions their running their insitutions into the fucking ground because of their mismanagement.


The problem for both parties is that they were prepared to play a certain role only to have the reality on the ground be the exact opasit to all of their preconceptions.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder


Really the best thing would be to get the current people running the Republican Party out of politics. I wish the founders had placed an age limit on all offices and term limits on everything. I feel at some point we became a society ruled by the geriatric. Anyone past 65 should be doing something else with their remaining life.

I don't know about the age 65 limit. But a cognitive test should be part of candidate selection after age 70. And I agree with Styxx on this. So let me make this crystal clear. Me and a lot of people who voted for Trump twice are not Republicans. We are MAGA. If the Republicans try to shaft Trump to put in another candidate. You will see yourself losing all of us. And trust me. We are far larger than that 45% you are trying to court. Consider this a warning to the GOP Republicans trying to blame Trump for everything. We are watching and we are not happy with you.
 

Abhorsen

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Osaul
The covix stimulus bills passed with veto-proof majorities, in fact they were nearly unanimous. You don't have the opition to not allow that.
If trump was against it, he could have gotten it down to a vetoable amount.

I don't recall the federal government doing anything of the sort.
Eviction moratorium anyone? Forced masks on flights? I could continue. His CDC also recommended lockdowns, and Trump went after governors who didn't do lockdowns.

That's ridiculous. Inevitably a company that donated to you is going to be the best choice for something, it's a misuse of taxpayer dollars to not context to them if that happens. Particularly for something like Operation Warp Speed where almost every major and minor drug company was involved.
It's a misuse of taxpayer dollars to have taxpayer dollars first of all, as every dollar is theft. Second, what did Warp Speed accomplish? A barely working vaccine that causes heart attack risks and needs to be retaken constantly. Basically a money pit.

I don't know about the age 65 limit. But a cognitive test should be part of candidate selection after age 70. And I agree with Styxx on this. So let me make this crystal clear. Me and a lot of people who voted for Trump twice are not Republicans. We are MAGA. If the Republicans try to shaft Trump to put in another candidate. You will see yourself losing all of us. And trust me. We are far larger than that 45% you are trying to court. Consider this a warning to the GOP Republicans trying to blame Trump for everything. We are watching and we are not happy with you.
Honestly, then leave. Make your own party. Let chaos take the GOP. Then hopefully the libertarian Party will take over. Chaos to the 2 party system only helps us.
 

Tiamat

I've seen the future...

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
75% of the population of the USA thinks the country is going in the wrong direction.
Brandon has the lowest approval rating of any president in history.
The economy is experiencing huge inflation and maybe even a recession.

You'd think that most people would be willing to elect anything but the Demorats?

How much ballot and machine shenanigans were there in stronghold Dem states?
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
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If trump was against it, he could have gotten it down to a vetoable amount.

No he couldn't have, not with that sort of support behind it, and not with an actual need for it given the state lead lockdown policies.

Eviction moratorium anyone? Forced masks on flights? I could continue. His CDC also recommended lockdowns, and Trump went after governors who didn't do lockdowns.

The moratorium was mostly BS, yes, and I said he didn't have as tight a rein on the CDC as he should have. But the FAA is entitled to set the rules for air travel. Also, they didn't take away your choice, if you didn't want to wear a mask, then don't get on a plan.

Second, what did Warp Speed accomplish? A barely working vaccine that causes heart attack risks and needs to be retaken constantly. Basically a money pit.

The vaccine massively reduces fatality rates, and needs to be retaken only slightly more often then flu shots, for similar reason of needing go keep pace with a rapidly mutating virus. That's not a money pit.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
The vaccine massively reduces fatality rates, and needs to be retaken only slightly more often then flu shots, for similar reason of needing go keep pace with a rapidly mutating virus.
The vaccines have extremely questionable efficacy rates for the healthy. Pretty well accepted that the Covid Vax has a negative impact on birth rates now.

Boosters have a negative impact on your immune system, DO NOT prevent you from catching the virus, and they DO NOT keep you from spreading the virus.

RE LOCKDOWNS: this was just stupid. Why did we quarantine the healthy? Someone please explain the benefits of this to me.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
So, yeah, I already shared my views about shenanigans in this thread and about the Big Sort and fear of change when some crap happens.

Here is another interesting take by Mr. Doom, Peter Schiff:



People will vote for whoever offers them the most free shit in an economic downturn.
 

Pocky Balboa

Well-known member
I have to admit, if you had asked me to think of reasons why someone would vote against DeSantis, "he's too environmentalist" would not have been on that list.

NIMBY principle writ small tied with a vote Blue no matter who attitude. Fuckers here will vote for whatever environmentalist crap that comes up, but as soon as it threatens their fishing holes or their jobs at the sugarcane fields and processing plants, they're all "go fuck yourselves" and then blame the nearest non-Democrat anyway for it. TBH, I do share your surprise at this. When I moved to this county, I understood it was a pretty consistent D voting block, but the last thing I expected to find was the rural parts of the county being the deepest color of libtard blue.
 

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