AHC: Other realistic cases of countries building a giant port for themselves?

WolfBear

Well-known member
Here's a fun AHC for you: Which other realistic cases of countries building a giant port for themselves can you think of? I mean similar to Poland building Gdynia as a Baltic port for itself in the interwar years and to Russia building St. Petersburg as a Baltic port for itself during the reign of Peter the Great.
 

History Learner

Well-known member
Here's a fun AHC for you: Which other realistic cases of countries building a giant port for themselves can you think of? I mean similar to Poland building Gdynia as a Baltic port for itself in the interwar years and to Russia building St. Petersburg as a Baltic port for itself during the reign of Peter the Great.

Add Germany to this and essentially many of the Great Lake cities in the U.S. and Canada.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Add Germany to this and essentially many of the Great Lake cities in the U.S. and Canada.

For Germany, are you talking about Hamburg here? Or about some other port? And Yeah, in the US case, cities such as Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Erie, Gary, Toledo, Milwaukee, and Chicago certainly qualify for this, as possibly does Seattle.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
And Yes, in the German case, I'm well-aware of this:


2000px-Ausbreitung_der_Hanse_um_das_Jahr_1400-Droysens_28.jpg


But that League occurred way before Germany's founding, unless of course you want to consider the Holy Roman Empire to likewise be Germany.
 

edgeworthy

Well-known member
Due to overcrowding and the growing size of ships there was a plan to simply build a new naval port at Portsmouth. A completely artificial one out into the Solent. Approximately where the US Navy's Carriers anchor today.
(It was a quite serious idea at the time, the proposal can be found in the city archives)

Edit: I've found a copy of the outline.
Proposal for a new naval dockyard at Portsmouth - Imgur
 
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WolfBear

Well-known member
Due to overcrowding and the growing size of ships there was a plan to simply build a new naval port at Portsmouth. A completely artificial one out into the Solent. Approximately where the US Navy's Carriers anchor today.
(It was a quite serious idea at the time, the proposal can be found in the city archives)

Edit: I've found a copy of the outline.
Proposal for a new naval dockyard at Portsmouth - Imgur

Where was the existing naval port?
 

gral

Well-known member
I think Port Sudan kind of fits here, although IIRC it was built because there aren't any natural harbours of significance on the Sudanese littoral.
 

TheRomanSlayer

Unipolarity is for Subhuman Trogdolytes
Canada could have had a second Pacific port in Prince Rupert, if Charles Hays didn’t die on the Titanic. He had ambitious plans on developing much of Prince Rupert, but it died with him.

In addition, there were also several spots in the Baltic where the Russians could have built a port, before St. Petersburg was a thing. Ust-Luga could have been a port that would serve Russia well, without the need for St. Petersburg. Ivangorod would have also been a viable port as well, if those tradesmen led by Hans Schlitte didn’t get caught on their way there (that PoD was the basis for the TL I wrote a long time ago that eventually resulted in a more active Russian presence in the Pacific). Kola could have also been built as a viable port in the Arctic, that would have served as a western port, in the event that Russia was blocked from the Baltic. I know it may sound a bit insane, but Murmansk was built for that very purpose that I explained.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Africa is the place to watch the lack of natural ports screws them hard so as soon as they have enough money skill and stability I expect al lot more artificial ports there
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Africa is the place to watch the lack of natural ports screws them hard so as soon as they have enough money skill and stability I expect al lot more artificial ports there

They could also get Chinese help in doing this. China might be very interested in such a commercial venture.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
That is a thing with a very limited window of time demographics is going to screw china hard

China still has a lot of people. Seeing its population halved will still ensure that China will have more people than the US has, for instance.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
China still has a lot of people. Seeing its population halved will still ensure that China will have more people than the US has, for instance.

you still run into the problem of a lot of old people who need to be taken care of by a smaller group of young people, and this is on top of environmental issues, water issues, and the fact that they are the single most overleveraged country in human history. China right now is a train wreak.

Now once you get rid of the communists and the utterly rotten foundation they created then I think you can have a china thats a sustainable great power but as long as the CCP is in power well their kind of fucked.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
you still run into the problem of a lot of old people who need to be taken care of by a smaller group of young people, and this is on top of environmental issues, water issues, and the fact that they are the single most overleveraged country in human history. China right now is a train wreak.

Now once you get rid of the communists and the utterly rotten foundation they created then I think you can have a china thats a sustainable great power but as long as the CCP is in power well their kind of fucked.

Overleveraged in what way(s), exactly?

As for overthrowing the CCP, that's probably unlikely to happen anytime soon, though in the long(er)-run, who knows, right? I mean, the events of 1989-1991 were not necessarily reasonably foreseeable to a lot of people beforehand.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Overleveraged in what way(s), exactly?

As for overthrowing the CCP, that's probably unlikely to happen anytime soon, though in the long(er)-run, who knows, right? I mean, the events of 1989-1991 were not necessarily reasonably foreseeable to a lot of people beforehand.

Let me explain how the chinese economy works.

Because this modle has been used in smaller parts elsewhere.

What the chinese do is they take every ones savings and then give out loans to anyone who says they can employ people. Working business model doesn't matter skill doens't matter if you can get bodies into the factory you get your loans. So loans were and remain incredibly cheap.

This isn't only business's but local governments, provential governments and other things, essentially china throws all the money at shit just to keep people employed. Chinese people have thrown their money into property which has gotten insane ghost cities grandmas with multiple properites things like that.

This is america's property bubble on steriods this is a country ran like Enron, this is also why the CCP has been locking down all the things because they know this is going to pop off eventually and when it does there is every likelyhood we will see another chinese revolution.
 

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