AHC: Reverse the outcome of some of history's most one-sided wars

Circle of Willis

Well-known member
History is replete not only with glorious victories and crushing defeats, but also conflicts where one side was so overwhelmingly, laughably outmatched by the other that it's very difficult (to put it charitably) to figure out how they could possibly win, and in many of these cases, it may even be difficult to determine why the inevitably defeated party thought it was a good idea to fight their war in the first place. Well, as the title of this thread suggests - this seems like a good day (😉) to try to find a way, any way (ideally in the most ASB-free way possible), to turn the following lopsided wars around. In order from (probably) least difficult to most to win:

1) The Russo-Georgian War of 2008. After mounting hostilities between the Georgians and separatist forces in South Ossetia, the Georgians launched an attack on said separatists and the Russian peacekeepers who'd been in the region since the 1990s (when ethnic conflicts resulted in the massacre or expulsion of many thousands of Georgians from SO and Abkhazia, another breakaway region). Despite having been trained and equipped by NATO after joining in both the Afghan and Iraq Wars, the Georgians were massively outnumbered (at least by 7-8 times if the Wiki figures are anything to go by) and outgunned by their adversaries, and were routed in less than two weeks while President Mikheil Saakashvili infamously ate his tie during a nervous televised address. In the face of a 1:8 disadvantage and with the risk that Russia will send ever more troops to the Caucasus in case their starting forces somehow prove insufficient, how can Georgia be made to beat the odds and reconquer one or both separatist regions?

2) The Italian invasion of Albania, 1939. In one corner, you have Fascist Italy: a modern military force which has recently avenged their humiliating past defeat in Ethiopia by conquering that country, just wrapped up a victorious intervention in the Spanish Civil War, and is now looking to annex Albania so as to not be outdone by Nazi Germany (which has just consumed Austria, the Sudetenland and the rest of Czechoslovakia in the preceding years). In the other corner you have Albania, whose totally invincible army was ironically trained by Italian officers and compromised by Italian agents who stole their ammo & disabled their artillery - 'oops' doesn't even begin to cover it. Nevertheless they managed to survive for five days (despite losing their capital and royal family, who immediately fled to Greece, on the first day of the invasion) against a little less than a quarter of the 100,000-strong army Mussolini had prepared for them. How can Albania be made to successfully throw the Italians back into the sea?

3) The Anglo-Zanzibar War, 1896. Fought in the wake of a succession crisis in Zanzibar (which gave Britain an opportunity to impose a protectorate on the island sultanate), this is famously the shortest known war in history. The British launched a 38-minute bombardment which destroyed the Zanzibari navy (consisting of one armed yacht) and palace, after which the Zanzibaris surrendered, having sustained 500 casualties to Britain's one (an officer was wounded). How can Zanzibar be made to prevail, ideally in as little or even less time than Britain did historically?

4) The German invasion of Luxembourg, 1940. While Hitler and his generals may consider the little country no more than a stop on their road to Paris, the Luxembourgers have resolved that they must not be underestimated and to actually fight against a German takeover this time, unlike in WW1. Their mighty army consists of a little over 400 soldiers and 200 gendarmes, surely that's enough for a fair fight against 50,000 Germans under Heinz Guderian's command right? Well apparently not, as they were overrun in a single day - truly astonishing, I know. Regardless, how can Luxembourg be made to withstand the Nazi onslaught for the entirety of WW2, with as little Anglo-French help as possible or even none at all? (It's not like whatever help they got historically amounted to much, anyway)
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
If ASBs can send some nukes with reliable delivery systems over to all of these underdogs, then the fight would become a bit more even. But then these wars wouldn't have been so one-sided!
 

ATP

Well-known member
History is replete not only with glorious victories and crushing defeats, but also conflicts where one side was so overwhelmingly, laughably outmatched by the other that it's very difficult (to put it charitably) to figure out how they could possibly win, and in many of these cases, it may even be difficult to determine why the inevitably defeated party thought it was a good idea to fight their war in the first place. Well, as the title of this thread suggests - this seems like a good day (😉) to try to find a way, any way (ideally in the most ASB-free way possible), to turn the following lopsided wars around. In order from (probably) least difficult to most to win:

1) The Russo-Georgian War of 2008. After mounting hostilities between the Georgians and separatist forces in South Ossetia, the Georgians launched an attack on said separatists and the Russian peacekeepers who'd been in the region since the 1990s (when ethnic conflicts resulted in the massacre or expulsion of many thousands of Georgians from SO and Abkhazia, another breakaway region). Despite having been trained and equipped by NATO after joining in both the Afghan and Iraq Wars, the Georgians were massively outnumbered (at least by 7-8 times if the Wiki figures are anything to go by) and outgunned by their adversaries, and were routed in less than two weeks while President Mikheil Saakashvili infamously ate his tie during a nervous televised address. In the face of a 1:8 disadvantage and with the risk that Russia will send ever more troops to the Caucasus in case their starting forces somehow prove insufficient, how can Georgia be made to beat the odds and reconquer one or both separatist regions?

2) The Italian invasion of Albania, 1939. In one corner, you have Fascist Italy: a modern military force which has recently avenged their humiliating past defeat in Ethiopia by conquering that country, just wrapped up a victorious intervention in the Spanish Civil War, and is now looking to annex Albania so as to not be outdone by Nazi Germany (which has just consumed Austria, the Sudetenland and the rest of Czechoslovakia in the preceding years). In the other corner you have Albania, whose totally invincible army was ironically trained by Italian officers and compromised by Italian agents who stole their ammo & disabled their artillery - 'oops' doesn't even begin to cover it. Nevertheless they managed to survive for five days (despite losing their capital and royal family, who immediately fled to Greece, on the first day of the invasion) against a little less than a quarter of the 100,000-strong army Mussolini had prepared for them. How can Albania be made to successfully throw the Italians back into the sea?

3) The Anglo-Zanzibar War, 1896. Fought in the wake of a succession crisis in Zanzibar (which gave Britain an opportunity to impose a protectorate on the island sultanate), this is famously the shortest known war in history. The British launched a 38-minute bombardment which destroyed the Zanzibari navy (consisting of one armed yacht) and palace, after which the Zanzibaris surrendered, having sustained 500 casualties to Britain's one (an officer was wounded). How can Zanzibar be made to prevail, ideally in as little or even less time than Britain did historically?

4) The German invasion of Luxembourg, 1940. While Hitler and his generals may consider the little country no more than a stop on their road to Paris, the Luxembourgers have resolved that they must not be underestimated and to actually fight against a German takeover this time, unlike in WW1. Their mighty army consists of a little over 400 soldiers and 200 gendarmes, surely that's enough for a fair fight against 50,000 Germans under Heinz Guderian's command right? Well apparently not, as they were overrun in a single day - truly astonishing, I know. Regardless, how can Luxembourg be made to withstand the Nazi onslaught for the entirety of WW2, with as little Anglo-French help as possible or even none at all? (It's not like whatever help they got historically amounted to much, anyway)

Unless you gave defeated weapons at least from Mass Effect,nothing could be done.Or turn people into saians from Dragonball.
 

bintananth

behind a desk
Or turn people into saians from Dragonball.
Then you get the likes of Vegeta and Goku.

Vegeta's an arrogant ass who hates being 2nd fiddle to Goku. Goku is lazy and doesn't do jack shit until everyone else has failed.

Why yes, I have watched DBZ Abridged. Why do you ask?
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Albania is the one I think has the best chance of pulling it off.


R.4c72a89446bbc352b54f0c30748115b1


This is a physical map of albania.

What do you see? Rather large fuck off mountains, the perfect place for resistance fighters to retreat to we know this because during world war 2 they did exactly that. Albania's problem was fundamentally one of bad leadership, change even a few things on that front and they are fully capable of kicking italies ass.
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
1) The Russo-Georgian War of 2008. After mounting hostilities between the Georgians and separatist forces in South Ossetia, the Georgians launched an attack on said separatists and the Russian peacekeepers who'd been in the region since the 1990s (when ethnic conflicts resulted in the massacre or expulsion of many thousands of Georgians from SO and Abkhazia, another breakaway region). Despite having been trained and equipped by NATO after joining in both the Afghan and Iraq Wars, the Georgians were massively outnumbered (at least by 7-8 times if the Wiki figures are anything to go by) and outgunned by their adversaries, and were routed in less than two weeks while President Mikheil Saakashvili infamously ate his tie during a nervous televised address. In the face of a 1:8 disadvantage and with the risk that Russia will send ever more troops to the Caucasus in case their starting forces somehow prove insufficient, how can Georgia be made to beat the odds and reconquer one or both separatist regions?

Have the Georgian commanders be less incompetent and actually plan for Russians to strike back. Abkhazia is a lost prospect, but Ossetia is doable, but they would need to have a task force bypass Tsinkishvali and race for Roki tunnel to block it, land some troops via helicopters at the tunnel entrance at the Ossetian side to block it off and hold it until the relieving force arrives.

With Roki tunnel blocked off the two brigades they have deployed to Ossetia can systematically clear out points of resistance throughout the enclave, despite Russian air strikes (and not race their armor through Tsinkishvali for Ossetians to pick off). Meanwhile, the other two brigades will have to hold the Abkhazi front, where Russians will launch offensive to force the Georgians to pull out of Ossetia. Their best case scenario is to fight the Russians long enough for some compromise deal to be made.

Also the numbers in the wikipedia box are meaningless, most of the fighting was done by three motorifle battalions and some VDV elements, before Georgian high command lost the nerve and ordered the retreat that turned into rout. Most Russian forces arrived only when the Georgians were already retreating.



As for Albania, the country was clusterfuck of petty tribalism and while Italians were not exactly shy about telegraphing their intentions, I think king Zog had about enough of his countrymen trying to kill him every other week (I kid, there were only something like 30-40 assassination attempts) and was more than happy to grab the treasury and fuck off to a comfy exile, where no one tried to kill him.
So let's say he discovers a new source of energy for himself and decides to give that pompus prick a fight to remember and publishes the terms of ultimatum right away and starts the mobilisation, thus the sabotage is discovered earlier and some might be remedied by the time Italians invade. Fight for the coastal cities would thereby be much harder and bloodier, as Albanians would be better organised, but Italians would ultimately prevail, due to superior firepower. Fightin would then move to the mountains, where Italians would gradually capture major towns, but guerilla warfare would continue, remaining constant drain on Italian manpower.
Now while Yugoslavia and Greece didn't particularly like the Albania, they absolutely hated the pompus prick in Rome, so Albanian fighters would have a steady source of weapons. This would enrage Mussolini greatly, so we might see even earlier invasion of Greece, that turns into even greater debacle, with Italians clinging only to Vlore and Durres, before Germans rescue them.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
Have the Georgian commanders be less incompetent and actually plan for Russians to strike back. Abkhazia is a lost prospect, but Ossetia is doable, but they would need to have a task force bypass Tsinkishvali and race for Roki tunnel to block it, land some troops via helicopters at the tunnel entrance at the Ossetian side to block it off and hold it until the relieving force arrives.

With Roki tunnel blocked off the two brigades they have deployed to Ossetia can systematically clear out points of resistance throughout the enclave, despite Russian air strikes (and not race their armor through Tsinkishvali for Ossetians to pick off). Meanwhile, the other two brigades will have to hold the Abkhazi front, where Russians will launch offensive to force the Georgians to pull out of Ossetia. Their best case scenario is to fight the Russians long enough for some compromise deal to be made.

Also the numbers in the wikipedia box are meaningless, most of the fighting was done by three motorifle battalions and some VDV elements, before Georgian high command lost the nerve and ordered the retreat that turned into rout. Most Russian forces arrived only when the Georgians were already retreating.



As for Albania, the country was clusterfuck of petty tribalism and while Italians were not exactly shy about telegraphing their intentions, I think king Zog had about enough of his countrymen trying to kill him every other week (I kid, there were only something like 30-40 assassination attempts) and was more than happy to grab the treasury and fuck off to a comfy exile, where no one tried to kill him.
So let's say he discovers a new source of energy for himself and decides to give that pompus prick a fight to remember and publishes the terms of ultimatum right away and starts the mobilisation, thus the sabotage is discovered earlier and some might be remedied by the time Italians invade. Fight for the coastal cities would thereby be much harder and bloodier, as Albanians would be better organised, but Italians would ultimately prevail, due to superior firepower. Fightin would then move to the mountains, where Italians would gradually capture major towns, but guerilla warfare would continue, remaining constant drain on Italian manpower.
Now while Yugoslavia and Greece didn't particularly like the Albania, they absolutely hated the pompus prick in Rome, so Albanian fighters would have a steady source of weapons. This would enrage Mussolini greatly, so we might see even earlier invasion of Greece, that turns into even greater debacle, with Italians clinging only to Vlore and Durres, before Germans rescue them.

I agree about Georgia - problem is,even if they did all those thongs,they would still lost.So,it is not reverse.
But Albania? if they fought in mountains and survive till Yugoslavia/Greece attacked by Italy,they could actually win.

P.S joke from commie times - communists in Albania made albanian navy 300% stronger! how? before war they have one ship,after - 3.
 

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