What If? Alternate Monarchs, Presidents and Heads-of-State

Eparkhos

Well-known member
I figure it's about time that The Sietch gets one of these too, seeing how AH.com and AlternateTimelines have their own. The idea is self-explanatory: post any lists of monarchs, presidents and heads-of-state, etc., etc., here.

To start us off, here's a list from a 'WW3 in 1948' TL I'm working on.

34. Arthur Vandenberg (R-MI): 1949-1950✝
35. Harold Stassen (R-MN): 1950-1957
36. Adlai Stevenson (D-IL): 1957-1965
37. Hubert Humphrey (D-MN): 1965-1969
38. George Wallace (I-AL): 1969-1970✝
39. Robert Byrd (C-WV): 1970-1981
40. Robert Dole (C-KS): 1981-1985
41. Morris Udall (R-AZ): 1985-1993
42. Robert Kerey (R-NB): 1993-1996
43. Paul Tsongas (R-MA): 1996-1997✝
44. Patricia Schroeder (R-CO): 1997
45. Lamar Alexander (C-TN): 1997-2001
46. Arlen Specter (R-PA): 2001-2005
47. Rick Santorum (C-PA): 2005-2009
48. James Webb (R-VA): 2009-2017
49. John Kasich (C-OH): 2017--

 

WolfBear

Well-known member
"The future Kaiser Wilhelm II dies in an accident in 1880"

German Kaisers:

Wilhelm I (1797-1888), 1871-1888
Friedrich III (1831-1888), 1888, son of previous
Heinrich I (1862-1929), 1888-1929, son of previous
Friedrich IV (1889-1975), 1929-1975, son of previous
Heinrich II (1914-2001), 1975-2001, son of previous
Friedrich V (1937-2021), 2001-2021, son of previous
Heinrich III (1962-present), 2021-present, son of previous
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
"Al Gore wins in 2000"

US Presidents and US Vice Presidents:

2001-2009: Al Gore/Joe Lieberman (D)
2009-2013: George Allen/John Thune (R)
2013-2021: Barack Obama/Tim Kaine (D)
2021-present: Mitt Romney/Tom Cotton (R)
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
"Russian Tsar Nicholas II decides to try again for a son after 1904 and succeeds, this time with a non-hemophiliac son. Also, no World War I."

Russian Tsars:

Nicholas II (1868-1953), 1894-1953
Alexander IV (1908-1993), 1953-1993, son of previous
Alexander V (1935-2018), 1993-2018, son of previous
Alexander VI (1960-present), 2018-present, son of previous
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
"Italian King Victor Emmanuel III is assassinated in 1903. Also, no overthrow of the Italian monarchy due to there being no Fall of France in 1940."

Italian Kings:

Victor Emmanuel III (1869-1903), 1900-1903
Emmanuel Philibert II (1869-1931), 1903-1931, cousin of the above
Amadeus X (1898-1951), 1931-1951, son of the above
Emmanuel Philibert III (1933-2022), 1951-2022, son of the above
Amadeus XI (1959-present), 2022-present, son of the above
 

Eparkhos

Well-known member
Does he change his views on civil rights?
No. One of the contributing factors in his election is mass racial unrest (basically the Long Hot Summer every summer for 3-4 years running), and his response to this ends in his (and many others') deaths. His death provides the justification for the many unconstitutional things done during Byrd's term in office (basically an American Dirty War).
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
No. One of the contributing factors in his election is mass racial unrest (basically the Long Hot Summer every summer for 3-4 years running), and his response to this ends in his (and many others') deaths. His death provides the justification for the many unconstitutional things done during Byrd's term in office (basically an American Dirty War).

So, the US is much more hardcore on racial issues in this TL relative to real life? Does this also mean that the US's immigration laws don't get liberalized in 1965?
 

Eparkhos

Well-known member
So, the US is much more hardcore on racial issues in this TL relative to real life? Does this also mean that the US's immigration laws don't get liberalized in 1965?
Very much so. Race relation is effectively a bloody ulcer; segregation is still legal in many areas and race riots and paramilitaries are commonplace. Interracial marriage is also broadly criminalized; effective the nadir of race relations dragged out another half-century.

As for immigration, there were a number of 'emergency measures' to admit large numbers of European refugees during the 1950s, seeing as most of the continent was in anarchy or an irradiated hellscape, but other than that mass migration has been broadly limited. Demographics are ~80% White, ~12% Black, ~8% Other (Native, Asian, Latin, etc.).

The whole thing is intend to be a sort of Monkey's Paw/For All Time with the bad outweighing the good. Here it's no mass migration/social revolution of the 1960s, but the U.S. is roughly as free a society as modern China, Neo-Nazism is a relevant ideology and Alaska bears a remarkable resemblance to the Gulag Archipelago.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Very much so. Race relation is effectively a bloody ulcer; segregation is still legal in many areas and race riots and paramilitaries are commonplace. Interracial marriage is also broadly criminalized; effective the nadir of race relations dragged out another half-century.

As for immigration, there were a number of 'emergency measures' to admit large numbers of European refugees during the 1950s, seeing as most of the continent was in anarchy or an irradiated hellscape, but other than that mass migration has been broadly limited. Demographics are ~80% White, ~12% Black, ~8% Other (Native, Asian, Latin, etc.).

The whole thing is intend to be a sort of Monkey's Paw/For All Time with the bad outweighing the good. Here it's no mass migration/social revolution of the 1960s, but the U.S. is roughly as free a society as modern China, Neo-Nazism is a relevant ideology and Alaska bears a remarkable resemblance to the Gulag Archipelago.

Holy shit! Nuclear war really does fuck the US over that badly, eh? :(
 

Eparkhos

Well-known member
To be explained later:

1825 - 1829: Thomas Clayton (F-DE) / John C. Calhoun (DR-SC)
1829 - 1833: Thomas Clayton (NR-DE) / John Sergeant (NR-PA)
1833 - 1837: Andrew Jackson (D-TN) / John C. Calhoun (D-SC)
1837 - 1841: William Henry Harrison (NR-OH) / Levi Lincoln (NR-MA)
 

Eparkhos

Well-known member
To be explained later:

1825 - 1829: Thomas Clayton (F-DE) / John C. Calhoun (DR-SC)
1829 - 1833: Thomas Clayton (NR-DE) / John Sergeant (NR-PA)
1833 - 1837: Andrew Jackson (D-TN) / John C. Calhoun (D-SC)
1837 - 1841: William Henry Harrison (NR-OH) / Levi Lincoln (NR-MA)
As I mentioned in the original post, the most likely ending of a Clayton presidency is Jackson being elected in 1828, but this would reduce the significance of his presidency to essentially being a speedbump on the road to Jacksonianism. A much more interesting prospect is Clayton being reelected, which grants him a better mandate and a more interesting impact (IMO)

The higher (but not Abominable) tariffs enacted under Clayton reduce some of backlash that fueled Jackson IOTL, while ongoing infrastructure programs and expanded foreign trade increase support in the Midwest and the Eastern Coast. Clayton's choice of a running mate, John Sergeant (obscure IOTL but prominent after the Amphyctonic Affair) also helps in Sergeant's home state of Pennsylvania. Ultimately, NY splits as IOTL, while Pennsylvania, Ohio and Louisiana all swing to Clayton.

1828: Thomas Clayton (FR-DE) / John Sergeant (FR-PA) (132 EV) defeats Andrew Jackson (D-TN) / John Calhoun (D-SC) (129 EV)

The election of 1828 is also extremely controversial, as the Federal Republicans had lost the popular vote and only won the electoral vote by the narrowest of margins; there are calls, particularly among Democrats, to abolish the Electoral College but nothing comes of it. The second Clayton term is broadly similar to the first, continuing the expansion of public works in the North and Midwest, public surveys, keeping tariffs high and negotiating agreements with European and Latin American states. The spoils system emerges roughly similar to OTL, Clayton installing loyalists wherever possible. Most notable is the Indian Removal Act or lack thereof, as the federal government sides with the Cherokee, refusing to support deportation and designating the Cherokee as a 'dependant domestic nation' and opening many legal cans of worms. Southern states grow increasing resentful of both tariffs and federal intervention in Georgia, but calls for secession are limited and little comes of it--yet. Overall, the economy does well, raising the popularity of the Federal Republicans.

The Federal Republicans nominate Henry Clay as their presidential candidate, but the choice of vice-presidential candidate is disputed. Ultimately, he selects John Holmes of Maine, hoping for both geographic balance and personal loyalty. The Democrats, meanwhile, raise the same ticket as before and campaign heavily, gathering a coalition of those aggrieved or alienated by the Federal Republicans. Jackson wins.

1832: Andrew Jackson (D-TN) / John Calhoun (D-SC) (193 EV) defeats Henry Clay (FR-KY) / John Holmes (FR-ME) (88EV)
(7 EV (Vermont) for Anti-Masonic Party)

Jackson's presidency is turbulent. The central issues are tariffs and central banking, both of which turn in drawn-out fights in Congress. The Democrats want to reduce tariffs significantly but are fiercely opposed by the N-Rs and some Midwestern Democrats, ultimately ending with a garbled, if reduced tariff that pleases no-one. Disputes over the central bank also turn into a quagmire, with Jackson failing to directly kill it but weakening it to the point of near-irrelevance. This benefits the South economically, but the Northern economy begins to stagnate. Then, in 1836, two years of poor harvest and a currency crisis in Britain trigger a recession (an earlier, milder Panic of '37), causing massive spikes in grain prices in cities across America and general economic downturn, all of which are blamed on Jackson's bank and tariff policies.

Jackson runs again in 1836, now with Van Buren as a running mate in an attempt to secure the north, but is facing increasing unpopularity. The National Republicans nominate the war hero and relative moderate William Henry Harrison, with the much more ideological Daniel Webster as vice-president, hoping to balance the Northeast and Midwest.

1836: William Henry Harrison (NR-OH) / Daniel Webster (NR-MA) (159 EV) defeats Andrew Jackson (D-TN) / Martin van Buren (D-NY) (135 EV)
 

Eparkhos

Well-known member
Rather...unfortunate....scenario that occured to me yesterday


THE CLINTONING
42. Bill Clinton (D-AR) / Al Gore (D-TN) (1993-2001)
(def. Bush/Quayle 1992, Dole/Kemp 1996)

43. Al Gore (D-TN) / Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH) (2001-2009)
(def. Bush/Cheney 2000, McCain/Bush (?) 2004)

44. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) / John Edwards (D-NC) (2009-2017)
(def. Huckabee/Hunter 2008, Romney/Roemer 2012)
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Rather...unfortunate....scenario that occured to me yesterday


THE CLINTONING
42. Bill Clinton (D-AR) / Al Gore (D-TN) (1993-2001)
(def. Bush/Quayle 1992, Dole/Kemp 1996)

43. Al Gore (D-TN) / Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH) (2001-2009)
(def. Bush/Cheney 2000, McCain/Bush (?) 2004)

44. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) / John Edwards (D-NC) (2009-2017)
(def. Huckabee/Hunter 2008, Romney/Roemer 2012)

Is John Edwards forced to resign after it's discovered that he had a love child with Rielle Hunter?
 

Eparkhos

Well-known member
Revised '1948 WW3 TL'

33. Harry Truman (D-MO) - 1945-1949
34. Harold Stassen (R-MN) - 1949-1957
35. Lucius D. Clay (D-GA) - 1957-1965
36. William Knowland (R-CA) - 1965-1966[1]
37. William Scranton (R-PA) - 1966-1968[2]
38. Mark Hatfield (R-OR) - 1968-1969
39. George C. Wallace (C-AL) - 1969[3]
40. John Schmitz (C-CA) - 1969[4]
41. Carl Hayden (D-AZ) - 1969-1971[5]
42. Robert Byrd (D-WV) - 1971-1985[6]
43. George Bush (C-TX) - 1985-1989
44. Harold Stassen (R-MN) - 1989-1993

[1] Suicide; reported as aneurysm or murder before 1989
[2] Assassination by Black Liberation Army
[3] See above
[4] Death during failed autocoup
[5] Death of old age
[6] Democratic to and Conservative from 1976
 
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Sergeant Foley

Well-known member
I figure it's about time that The Sietch gets one of these too, seeing how AH.com and AlternateTimelines have their own. The idea is self-explanatory: post any lists of monarchs, presidents and heads-of-state, etc., etc., here.

To start us off, here's a list from a 'WW3 in 1948' TL I'm working on.

34. Arthur Vandenberg (R-MI): 1949-1950✝
35. Harold Stassen (R-MN): 1950-1957
36. Adlai Stevenson (D-IL): 1957-1965
37. Hubert Humphrey (D-MN): 1965-1969
38. George Wallace (I-AL): 1969-1970✝
39. Robert Byrd (C-WV): 1970-1981
40. Robert Dole (C-KS): 1981-1985
41. Morris Udall (R-AZ): 1985-1993
42. Robert Kerey (R-NB): 1993-1996
43. Paul Tsongas (R-MA): 1996-1997✝
44. Patricia Schroeder (R-CO): 1997
45. Lamar Alexander (C-TN): 1997-2001
46. Arlen Specter (R-PA): 2001-2005
47. Rick Santorum (C-PA): 2005-2009
48. James Webb (R-VA): 2009-2017
49. John Kasich (C-OH): 2017--
What's the + stand for? Died in office?
 

Sergeant Foley

Well-known member
I figure it's about time that The Sietch gets one of these too, seeing how AH.com and AlternateTimelines have their own. The idea is self-explanatory: post any lists of monarchs, presidents and heads-of-state, etc., etc., here.

To start us off, here's a list from a 'WW3 in 1948' TL I'm working on.

34. Arthur Vandenberg (R-MI): 1949-1950✝
35. Harold Stassen (R-MN): 1950-1957
36. Adlai Stevenson (D-IL): 1957-1965
37. Hubert Humphrey (D-MN): 1965-1969
38. George Wallace (I-AL): 1969-1970✝
39. Robert Byrd (C-WV): 1970-1981
40. Robert Dole (C-KS): 1981-1985
41. Morris Udall (R-AZ): 1985-1993
42. Robert Kerey (R-NB): 1993-1996
43. Paul Tsongas (R-MA): 1996-1997✝
44. Patricia Schroeder (R-CO): 1997
45. Lamar Alexander (C-TN): 1997-2001
46. Arlen Specter (R-PA): 2001-2005
47. Rick Santorum (C-PA): 2005-2009
48. James Webb (R-VA): 2009-2017
49. John Kasich (C-OH): 2017--
Or Alternate Popes 😎
 

Sergeant Foley

Well-known member
Rather...unfortunate....scenario that occured to me yesterday


THE CLINTONING
42. Bill Clinton (D-AR) / Al Gore (D-TN) (1993-2001)
(def. Bush/Quayle 1992, Dole/Kemp 1996)

43. Al Gore (D-TN) / Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH) (2001-2009)
(def. Bush/Cheney 2000, McCain/Bush (?) 2004)

44. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) / John Edwards (D-NC) (2009-2017)
(def. Huckabee/Hunter 2008, Romney/Roemer 2012)
From the American Republic timeline (which I'm working on right now: It's likely gonna be SUPER LONG)
#38 Gerald Rudolph Ford (R-MI): 38th President from August 9, 1974 to September 5, 1975: Assassinated

#39 Nelson Aldrich Rockefeller (R-NY St): 39th President from September 5, 1975 to January 26, 1979: Died in office.

#40 Linwood Holton (R-VA): 40th President from January 26, 1979 to January 20, 1981: Ascended to the Presidency upon Rockefeller's death.

******From the 11.13.83 Incident timeline
#41 Ronald Wilson Reagan (R-CA): 41st President from January 20, 1981 to November 13, 1983: Assassinated.

#42 George Herbert Walker Bush (R-TX): 42nd President from November 13, 1983 to January 20, 1993: Ascended to the Presidency upon Reagan's assassination; elected to full four-year terms in 1984 and 1988. Didn't seek reelection in 1992.

******From Eagle is Down timeline:
#43 William Jefferson Clinton (D-AR): 43rd President from January 20, 1993 to November 23, 1996: Assassinated.

#44 Albert Arnold Gore, Jr., (D-TN): 44th President from November 23, 1996 to December 4, 1997: Died following complications of stroke.

#45 Mark Wells White, Jr., (D-TX): 45th President from December 4, 1997 to January 20, 2001: Ascended to the Presidency upon Gore's death; didn't seek full four-year term in 2000.

#46 George Walker Bush (R-TX): 46th President from January 20, 2001 to January 20, 2009: Didn't seek reelection in 2008.

#47 Barack Hussein Obama, Jr., (D-IL): 47th President from January 20, 2009 to April 28, 2014: Assassinated.

#48 Joseph Robinette Biden, Jr., (D-DE): 48th President from April 28, 2014 to January 20, 2017: Ascended to the Presidency upon Obama's assassination; didn't seek full four-year term in 2016.

#49 Donald John Trump (R-NY St/FL): 49th President from January 20, 2017 to January 20, 2021.

******From Keep America Free:
#50 Andrew Mark Cuomo (D-NY St): 50th President from January 20, 2021 to August 23, 2023: Resigned in disgrace following Nursing Home Scandal and sexual assault allegations.

#51 Kamala Devi Harris (D-CA): 51st President from August 23, 2023 to January 20, 2025: Ascended to the Presidency upon Cuomo's resignation; defeated for renomination.

#52 Ronald Dion DeSantis (R-FL): 52nd President from January 20, 2025-
 

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