ASOIAF/GOT ASOIAF Ideas, Recs, and Discussion thread

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Facehugger seriously debated me for 20 pages on Mihawk from One Piece, Samurai Jack and Fingolfin vs US Marines because and I quote "intended portrayal matters more than feat wank"-This was an Admin venturing into Vs after he hadn't debated in vs in 13 years..solely to argue "the mere fact that a character has a sword means they're intended to be portrayed as just guys with swords and therefor autolose against guns"

God, honestly I find the idea of fantasy series easily losing out to guys with guns to be stupid AF

Same as guys who think simply being “pragmatic” will make it more-or-less easy for them to win, as if actual fighting skills and abilities don’t matter if you’re willing to “fight dirty”

Pull a gun on Baki Hanma and the arm holding it will be dislocated at the very least. Do it to Miyamoto Musashi and you and the gun will literally be cut in half before it even has the chance of killing him.
 

Hlaalu Agent

Nerevar going to let you down
Founder
Facehugger seriously debated me for 20 pages on Mihawk from One Piece, Samurai Jack and Fingolfin vs US Marines because and I quote "intended portrayal matters more than feat wank"-This was an Admin venturing into Vs after he hadn't debated in vs in 13 years..solely to argue "the mere fact that a character has a sword means they're intended to be portrayed as just guys with swords and therefor autolose against guns"

There was also Numenor vs Valyria..which had Leo1 hyperventilate and accuse anyone defending Numenoreans of being cryptofascists after he got dragged for thinking Numenoreans with their proto tac nukes couldn't smash the Freehold

Octavian was the biggest offender of it. Because he kept losing debates to myself and Mak Tau over Tolkien..so..yeah.

It became a vendetta for him.

Childish shit

Yes, feat wank is bad, but seriously he was being a moron. Low balling feats, and any of those guys would still do well or annihilate the marines. TES wank can get pretty bad, but it still mauls settings if you look at what is actual securely canon and low ball it. It makes me wonder how much people low ball this setting given the ridiculous bullshit that I have seen from it, especially the show's ridiculous AA scorpions.

Hmm, I think we should make an appropriate thread to move this discussion to, because I'd like to further discuss the hilarity of MLP and other settings being woodchippers.
 
D

Deleted member 88

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I recall I said somewhere that the Valar are portrayed within a limited scale-Arda is a planet.

Remember they fashioned Arda out of the substance Eru created.

So their power is comparable to that of archangels more than just polytheistic deities. If the silmarillion were set at a galactic or intergalactic level-the Valar would be able to smash galaxies, Morgoth would be able to blot out trillions of stars, and the Noldor would be able to build gigantic space fortresses that would put Warhammer 40K to shame.

Power in Tolkien is not scalable to the setting. It’s innate and elastic.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
I recall I said somewhere that the Valar are portrayed within a limited scale-Arda is a planet.

Remember they fashioned Arda out of the substance Eru created.

So their power is comparable to that of archangels more than just polytheistic deities. If the silmarillion were set at a galactic or intergalactic level-the Valar would be able to smash galaxies, Morgoth would be able to blot out trillions of stars, and the Noldor would be able to build gigantic space fortresses that would put Warhammer 40K to shame.

Power in Tolkien is not scalable to the setting. It’s innate and elastic.

I honestly bet that there are more worlds out there with other Valar and Maiar in-charge of shaping life and waiting for Eru to send in life
 
D

Deleted member 88

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So Red Robb and the Burning of the Riverlands.

I really really hate Strangebloke's guts.

And I was indifferent to Wounds. He isn't a bad writer though.

Anyway premise is Wut If Robb rose instead of Stoneheart.

Basically Robb is gonna come back and wreak holy hell on the Riverlands.

I'm curious as to what he aims to do with this. Thematically speaking. Plot/IU geopolitics also.

Okay Red Robb destroys the Freys, King Jon destroys the Ironborn and Boltons, the Lannisters self destruct? What then?

It says burning of the Riverlands not the Westerlands or Crownlands or Reach.

Theme wise-vengeance is bad, but understandable. Which is fairly overt in canon ASOIAF. What's the end goal here? Who is the antagonist? Strangebloke is good enough of a writer for it not to be a cathartic "let's butcher Freys and Lannisters Hellz yeah!" sort of fic, but if not what will make it different?

I'm honestly curious where he takes this, making resurrected Robb into an antagonist of his siblings who also want vengeance but retain their humanity could be intriguing. Because honestly what's the goal here? Like where does he want Jon and Arya(who appear to be the protagonists) to end up? Lyanna as Stannis' waifu was pretty obvious in Wounds.

Anyway here's the link.

 

Ganurath

Well-known member
Gave it a look. It's decent enough so far, with good character interaction in the Sandor/Arya subplot, but I dislike how the author flipped which of the Blackwood/Bracken rivals flipped for the Lannisters, or how socially perceptive Catelyn was despite her canon... blind spots. Bit confused as to the basis of your speculation regarding the geopolitics, though. I'm guessing it relates to why you hate the author of the fic?
 
D

Deleted member 88

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Strangebloke is one of the dozen or so SB ASOIAF regulars whom I have an open and irreconcilable grudge against. And trust me, they hate me just as much.

He flipped the bracken/blackwood thing just for shock. Also Strangebloke is a Catelyn stan so he makes her uber perceptive.

My speculation as to the geopolitics was entirely separate from the grudge. Robb comes back and wreaks Hades on the Riverlands as basically an unstoppable zombie warlord-cool, but where geopolitics wise does that go? A stark victory? Robb slain by Arya?

Its an interesting premise but geopolitics and thus character wise would run into problems. That is the geopolitics shape the character's.

So we have King Jon, and Zombie Robb-where does the fic go?

Where does Jon go beyond either siding with his undead brother or turning on him?

That is my question.
 

Jouaint

Well-known member
The Empire of Westeros

So I thought it might be interesting to think about a Westeros that had already been united before Aegon. Of course that leads to the question of how that happened, but I took some inspiration from Warhammer. So here is my idea for that timeline.

In the late 300 BCs Valyrian power and influence were growing closer and closer to Westeros. In this timeline one of the Kings (probably a Gardner or Durrandon due to both power and closeness) takes notice of this and comes to the conclusion that Westeros needs to unite against the Valyrians if they want to stand a chance. So they engage in diplomatic and military measures to bring the Great Houses to the table. In it they hammer out the details of what they are trying to create.

They agree to create the position of emperor whose major job (at the time) would be leading the united Westeros against any Valyrian incursions. They also created the Elector Council who would elect the Emperor when the old one died as well as discuss and vote on any matters that pertained to Westeros as a whole.

The Electors are:
  • The King in the North: House Stark
  • The King of the Rock: House Lannister
  • The Prince of Dorne: House Martell
  • The King of the Reach: House Gardner
  • The King of Mountain and Vale: House Arryn
  • The Storm King: House Durrandon
  • The King of the Iron Islands: House Hoare
  • The Emperor of Westeros


Every Elector gets one vote, though the Emperor gets the Tie-breaking vote if necessary. Votes are generally simple majority and of course abstention is allowed. Generally the Electors don’t like electing an Emperor from among their ranks for the amount of votes and power that can give them. They also hate the idea of forming an Imperial dynasty so two generations basically never happened and three or more certainly have no chance of happening.

I am having trouble deciding if an Imperial Capital should be established or if it should be a traveling capital. I could see arguments for both.

The Emperor’s primary duty on founding was to defend Westeros specifically from a Valryrian invasion; this was done by allowing them to establish an Army and Navy and in the event of war with the Freehold the Emperor was to be in charge. Of course the Electors were allowed to keep their armies as well. To fund this military the Electors were expected to provide some tax money (this could vary wildly) and the Emperor was allowed to levy some tariffs on non-Westrosi goods though a vote by the Electors could overturn this.

Armed conflict still happened between the Electors, but on a smaller scale and with less frequency. Strictly speaking the Emperor could (and on occasion even did) intervene in one of those conflicts, but the Electors didn’t like curtailments of their power so intervention basically only happened when a majority of the Electors were against a conflict.

As time passed the Imperial government gained more power and prestige as the Electors met to decide more things in unison. A bureaucracy formed, a uniform currency was established, and infrastructure was built. Not just Southrons were elected to be Emperor and not just the South benefited, the North actually prospered under the Empire, and received improvements to itself from having an Imperial government that was at times deeply interested in its wellbeing.

Despite all this war with Valyria never came. Valyria was already overextended. The Dragon Lords did not want to leave too many riders far away from the home city to break off and establish their own fiefdoms. The Upper-echelons of Valyrian society decided it was not worth the effort and risk of secession to send Dragons to conquer and occupy the continent and Westeros was never stupid enough to give them a reason to think otherwise. Eventually Danny the Dreamer had her vision, the Targaryens fled to Dragonstone and Valyria fell.

With the fall of Valyrian Freehold the Empire of Westeros was shaken. The enemy it was founded to defeat was gone and so some argued there was no point to the Empire, but at the same time there were other considerations to be made. Some realized with the Freehold gone this made the Empire the most powerful force this side of Yi-Ti, some realized they could rise farther in the Imperial government/bureaucracy than outside of it, some were even genuinely loyal to the Empire and wanted it to prosper. The Empire managed to hold on for a few decades, before in what would have been 60 BC in the OTL the War of the Three Emperors began.

Though it was called the War of the Three Emperors in reality it was more of a time when there weren't less then two Emperors for any significant period of time and where conflict was more common than the norm for the past two centuries. Many would be Emperors were backed by a variety of Electors and though at times one of the Electors would heavily “disengage” with the rest of the Empire none formally seceded from it. All hoped to gain hold of the enormous power the Empire had the potential for.

Eventually one of the Electors makes overtures with Dragonstone and its current lord Aegon Targaryen (I don’t think they had enough contact with Westeros at the time for that much to be changed). They wanted to get his support for their bid to power. Aegon however had ambitions of his own and had been stuck deciding on how he wanted to fulfill those ambitions when he decided to go after the Emperorship of Westeros.

Though the armies of Westeros were far superior to his own none could match the power of his dragons. He used that power to force the Electors to assemble and vote for him as Emperor. Shortly after he conquered the Stepstones with the might of Westeros and established the new Electorhood of the Dragon Lord of the Narrow Sea. Afterwards he focused on vastly increasing Imperial power and establishing the new de facto Imperial Targaryen dynasty.

After the end of the War of Three Emperors the Electors were:

  • The King in the North: House Stark
  • The King of the Rock: House Lannister
  • The Prince of Dorne: House Martell
  • The King of the Reach: House Gardner
  • The King of Mountain and Vale: House Arryn
  • The Storm King: House Durrandon
  • The King of the Iron Islands: House Hoare
  • The Dragon Lord of the Narrow Sea: House Targaryen
  • The Emperor of Westeros

So what do you think is it an interesting timeline/idea? What could be better/different? All thoughts are appreciated.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
@Jouaint
Honestly, I think it may take more than a Valyrian Invasion to do it, maybe if there were Valyrian Slave Raids or occasionally attempts to get tribute, sure.

But if it's merely suspicions, it'd be much more to be united against/for Valyria

As I recall regarding the Empire of Man's backstory, Sigmar saw that humanity was VERY likely to be enslaved and/or exterminated entirely by the Orks who were coming in en masse. There were also threats like Beastmen.

So, I'd say maybe for this to work, either there's more Valyrian attacks that can be felt across the continent.

Or this becomes a more fantastic AU and some OCPs pop up and the Westerosi Kingdoms decide they can't afford to squabble amongst themselves

You know, I'm still stuck playing Darkest Dungeon



Maybe something like The Estate popping up and its threats spreading across Westeros would do it, while attracting more and spreading even those, would it
 
D

Deleted member 88

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Anyway so...Red Robb.

We finally got our resurrected Robb.

And I have to say, I'm disappointed.

Firstly he's somewhat too coherent, I know his wounds were not the same as LSH's.

Also the diction Strangebloke used, "I come not to rule but to destroy", just kind of fell flat for me. A little too formal.

Like to emphasize his different nature he should have said, "I have risen by the will of R'hllor and I all I desire is blood." Or something more metal.

Like make it metal, and unearthly. Not "I have come again to destroy." Which just sounds...I dunno? Not ethereal and menacing?

Its too formal and proper, the language used should have been more venomous and opaque.

Geopolitics wise, we have Jon in the north with wildling foederati, Arya in the Eyrie, and Robb about to wreak holy hell in the riverlands. I hope Strangebloke doesn't have Jon and Red Robb align, because that's just stark stronk.

I doubt it, because Strangebloke seems allergic to the idea of intra protagonist conflict. I know I know Robb named Jon as his heir, but he's supposed to be a vengeance machine. Having Red Robb dismiss the north entirely or outright see Jon as his enemy(especially if Jeyne lives and is preggers) would make more interesting drama.

Also the Stannis the Mannis tag on A03 doesn't fill me with hope, stannis should have no support in the north-due to Jon already being king, with wildling and anti Bolton northron backing.

But he's a Stannis stan, so its not surprising.
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
So what do you think is it an interesting timeline/idea? What could be better/different? All thoughts are appreciated.

That it won't work, at all. The Andals and First Men hate each other. The closest to a unified, continent spanning, political body is the Faith of the Seven. And this is the Faith still with the Faith Militant, still with the "burn all weirwoods", still with the "death to the heritic".

There is zero chance that the North would ever ally with them, hell they are more likely to cut a deal with the dragonlords; afterall the North does have magic and they are easy to appease. Give the North religious freedom (and the Freehold didn't care what religions their subjects practiced), don't burn the Weirwoods, and largely leave them alone and they will remain compliant - especially against dragons.

Unifying the Andals runs into a very big question; who gets to rule? The Gardners rule the Reach and their mythos is that they are the direct heirs of the greatest King of the Age of Heros; they aren't going to bow. The Vale is utterly impregnable to attack from any of the other Kingdoms, at least by land. Dorne is the historical enemy of the Stormlands and Reach and is culturally significantly different from either of them; they didn't bow to dragons, they sure as hell aren't bowing to Reach lords with delusions of adequacy. The Westlands have wealth but they lack significant amounts of fertile land, have the Iron Born off their coast to worry about and constrain them as a naval power, and aren't really in a position to make a go at unification; especially not when they will inevitably become the piggy bank for every would be Emperor. The Riverlands are nothing but a battlefield and have been for thousands of years.

Aegon managed the Conquest because he had three mature dragons and the mythos of the Dragonlords of Valyria behind him; five thousand years of unbroken victory bought with fire & blood. You would bend the knee to Aegon or you would burn; your castles would melt like wax before dragonfire, your fleets would become pyres for their crews, your granaries and fields would burn, and any army you fielded would simply be incinerated without you able to do anything about it. The Faith of the Seven bent the knee to a heretic because the Most Devout were fully aware that Aegon would burn Oldtown to dust and proceed to burn every sept in the Seven Kingdoms, put every Septon and Septa to the sword, and burn the Andals from one end of Westeros to the other until they bent the knee. If the Faith refused to bend then it would burn and Aegon would just embrace the First Men instead of the Andals. You think that the North would hesitate for even a moment to come South behind three dragons on a war of extermination against the Faith? That a Valyrian dragonlord would even blink at blood sacrifices to weirwoods?

The Unification of Westeros was only really possible via dragon.
 
Stannis in Tywin 2
D

Deleted member 88

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What cruel joke have the gods played on me?

Stannis gritted his teeth, and felt his gums grow raw from the incessant grinding. The man in front of him, wasn't him, couldn't be him, but it was him all the same.

Tywin Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock and Warden of the West, or rather...he would be. Tytos Lannister was still alive and lord of the west.

The Reynes, the reynes. They've risen in revolt against House Lannister. Against Tywin's father, against...Tywin, no me.

For what reason could the Lord of Light, the Seven, the old gods, or any of them have to send me here? To this time, and into the body of this man? Should I have prayed? Should I not have accepted Melisandre into my council?


In any event, unless he was sent back, he was stuck here in the body of Lord Lannister. Perhaps the gods intended him to do something with this.

The door knocked, and Stannis gritted before replying.

"Enter".

Ser Kevan entered, his blonde air frizzled and his expression one of perplexed sourness.

"Brother, what are you waiting on, we need to meet Lord Marbrand and Crakehall, before Roger Reyne and Walderan Tarbeck summon wavering houses to their side."

Kevan looked somewhat perplexed, he was not keen on seeing his elder brother appear as indecisive as he must have here.

Breathing a moment before replying, Stannis answered.

"Let us go then, you have our knights ready?"

"Yes brother, alongside two hundred men at arms, mounted and unmounted, Lord Marbrand has one hundred men and Lord Crakehall has two hundred, Lords Lefford and Swyft have sent fifty men each."

"Good, we will meet the Reynes, and I will bring justice to Roger Reyne, Walderan Tarbeck and Lady Ellyn, and all their conspirators."

Kevan eyed him curiously, before nodding.

With that, they both left Tywin's bedchamber. And walked down the stairs of the rock, with squires and pages following them and at the stables, putting his armor on.

The armor he wore, was red and gold, resplendent in the morning sun.

The Lannisters always did value things that shined far too much.

Getting on his horse, and with the golden lion banner behind him, red cloaks clad in red lamellar armor, followed Stannis and Ser Kevan out of the rock's stables.

The penalty for treason is death, which the Lords of Reyne and Tarbeck have brought, I will bring justice, justice, not slaughter.
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
So does anyone else get annoyed with authors regularly forgetting just how utterly, absurdly, large Westeros is?

The Seven Kingdoms aren't the size of the UK, or France; they are the size of the United States or all of Europe.

Each of the Seven is individually larger than basically any individual European nation that has ever existed.

And all of this territory is connected by sea travel that has to essentially circumnavigate the entire continent and roads that are little better than animal paths.

Assuming that an army marches at twenty five miles per day (absurdly generous given the conditions) would, as the crow flies, take almost forty days to travel from Lannisport to King's Landing.

Hell, Ravens "only" travel approximately a hundred miles per day; which means a week to ten days for a raven to reach the Rock from King's Landing.

To put this in perspective, the arable land in the Vale of Arryn is somewhere on the order of a sixth the amount of the agricultural land of modern day France.

---
The only people who ever could unite the Seven Kingdoms and rule them are the Targaryens with dragons. And even then, those dragons need to be able to fly at a solid hundred plus miles per hour all day, day after day. That, at least, is enough to keep the lords mostly honest and give you time to start unifying things.

But actual, central, control without that? You need rail lines, canals, road networks, a semaphore system (if not a telegraph), a top tier spy network, a standing army, and the ability to have that army deployed (and know to deploy) across a large swath of the continent in short order. Without that, all you can do is hope your nobles decide to keep to their oaths.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
But actual, central, control without that? You need rail lines, canals, road networks, a semaphore system (if not a telegraph), a top tier spy network, a standing army, and the ability to have that army deployed (and know to deploy) across a large swath of the continent in short order. Without that, all you can do is hope your nobles decide to keep to their oaths.

Speaking or tech uplifts, have there ever been fics wherein the nobility actively resist it or hamper building those places on THEIR lands?
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
Speaking or tech uplifts, have there ever been fics wherein the nobility actively resist it or hamper building those places on THEIR lands?
One of two things are true:

1) It's the Targaryens doing it when backed by dragons. In this case resistance is the height of idiocy and will result in some Fire and Blood and the throne shows why giant, army killing, castle melting, fire breathing lizards that can fly are the ultimate argument of Kings.

2) It's someone else pushing for the uplift. In this case it will never get done on any kind of continental scale as there are simply too many noble asses that need kissing and too many factions that would make it effectively impossible. Individual projects in individual kingdoms (or maybe two, if the right Lords Paramount are cooperating)? Sure. But anything beyond that? Highly unlikely.

I mean the biggest impact project would be the Northern Canal. And you could probably get the Lannisters and Arryn's onboard with helping fund and build that simply because of what it would do for their trade. If the Ironborn have an idiot on the throne, he might even let it happen as well on the theory that it will mean increased shipping to pirate in future (in reality, that would just get the Iron Islands genocided properly and turned into someone else's territory). The thing is, the Iron Throne without Dragons (or Robert's supreme idiocy) is NEVER going to allow that project to occur. Build that canal and you drastically undercut the Thrones ability to regulate trade with Braavos and the free cities more broadly. The Reach would also oppose as it frees Westerlands -> Braavos trade from having to go South, Dorne the same and for the same reasons.

The only times you could get such a project done are when the Dragons rule (because the Iron Throne has nothing to fear from the Northern Canal or the various Lords when it still has dragons) or when Robert is sitting the throne.

---
For other projects, connecting the Trident to the Gods Eye (and making the relevant rivers navigable for barge traffic) and Blackwater Rush to Mandar would both be massive improvements but the only way that either would get done is with the Throne pushing for them.

Granted, again, the only time it could realistically be done is when the dragons were still around. Assuming the Targaryens were willing to use them as beasts of burden. I mean imagine the Black Dread digging ditches; in a matter of hours he could probably outperform a modern construction company working for a week, much less what could be done with Westeros tech. Dragon power to dig out the canal, frame it lightly in wood, have the peons fill the wood frame with gravel/crushed rock, and then have the dragon fly down the canal to be with some nice flame; dragon fire can melt stone, so fusing the loose rock into something akin to cement should be no real problem.

You could do it without dragons, it would just take a lot longer and be a lot more expensive. The other thing is; who does it benefit?

Allow a barge to go from King's Landing to the Mandar and you are also allowing the Reach to use the same route for their supply train for an army marching on the Crownlands. Connect the Trident to the God's Eye and you do the same for the North, Riverlands, and Vale.

If the North puts a blocking force on the Twins and Bloody Gate they can pin the Vale and Riverlands in place while having a straight shot across the Ruby Ford to ravage the Crownlands; give them a canal to take from the Ford down and they can easily siege King's Landing from both sides. You also have to fear them being allowed to run rampant in the Reach, bypassing the crownlands entirely.

The Vale could do much the same thing; rush a blocking force to hold the Ford, load the army on to be barged south to King's Landing while a second threatens the Crownlands proper.

For a throne without dragons to be safe while improving transport infrastructure, the throne also needs a very large royal army. And the nobility is never going to allow a King without dragons to build a proper royal army of the needed size, even assuming that the King could fund it. A king with a hundred thousand professional soldiers under arms needs to find enemies to justify the expense and is able to force his nobles to bow. The throne will quickly find excuses to essentially absorb the whole of the Riverlands into the Crownlands; because build castles to hold the Golden Tooth, Deep Den, Twins, and Rubyford and those natural chokepoints give the throne an almost unassailable base. Except then the triangle made by the Blackwater and forks of the Mandar then becomes a really juicy prize to grab off at the first opportunity.

The Lords Paramount can read maps, and none of them want a more powerful Throne. They won't allow a royal army of real size to be created simple because of what it will inevitable be used for (grabbing off their lands for the Throne). Nor will the lesser nobles be inclined to support it given that a royal army undercuts the power of the knightly houses and Knights.

The dragon backed Targaryens could have done it (and should have probably), but that would have meant generations before a Targaryen could even pretend to sit an easy throne.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
@Emperor Tippy
That use of dragons for construction sounds like the use of Titans by Eldia from Shingeki No Kyojin

Though, I think Aegon or Visenya might think of it as being demeaning to use it for more “boring” uses, like the dragons from Drifters whose leader got pissed about being used for carrying troops and supplies rather than combat
 
D

Deleted member 88

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Assuming that an army marches at twenty five miles per day (absurdly generous given the conditions) would, as the crow flies, take almost forty days to travel from Lannisport to King's Landing.
People complain about Lannister wank in the Wot5K, a lot. But this gets me so much. In RR, the Lannister army(which is mostly foot too), beats the rebels to King's Landing. Now Robert was injured and the rebels rested a little, but Tywin had to be force marching the army really damn fast. With Ned's vanguard being the main part of the rebel army on the way.

Either Tywin was marching before the outcome(which is what I believe), or he marched at an extremely unrealistic speed.

Given Aerys had enough time to evacate Rhaella, he must have been informed so...days to weeks had to pass after the trident.

For Tywin to beat the rebels, even if the whole Lannister host was horsed, would mean he'd need to be southeast of the trident by the time Ned and his vanguard departed.

Which just makes no sense at all, for either logistical reasons or time wise.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
Martin doesn't really do much to remember distances in his stories.

It would be a different matter if they had well paved roads and garrisons and barracks every say, 70 or so miles and could say, leave Casterly rock via Lannisport with 5,000 men by boat and send couriers that could run Persian/Mongol style 24/7 to get the armies moving and marching ahead of him so he could meat a fully mobilized army on the border of the crownlands or something.
 
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D

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I mean also did no one know the Lannisters were marching? Word would have come via the castles and lands in the Riverlands or maybe the Goldroad if they snaked through the northern reach.

They aren't informed of it until after the Trident is over IIRC.

"Tywin Lannister left the Golden Tooth with 12,000 men, peasants report he is riding hard east."

This information would have reached both the rebels and royalists, or rather it ought to have before the Trident was joined.

Westeros has lots of castles and maesters, and peasants who will talk.

I mean if Tywin assembled and marched say two weeks before the Trident-that would be enough time at least for Hoster Tully to be informed, or the castellan of Riverrun.

Because if Tywin just waited at the Golden Tooth and only marched after he heard word of the Trident-there is simply no way even if he was all horsed to make it to King's Landing before Ned did.
 

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