Important Civility Rules Enforcement

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The Preamble of the Civility Rules has been part of Rule 2 for the Entire History of the Board. Due to the escalating lack of civility on this forum, which is contrary to its principles and the interest of having a healthy community, the preamble of Rule 2 will now be regularly enforced not merely through punishment for violation of specific sub-sections under it, but for violations of the direct wording of the preamble, including but not limited to the posting of material likely to create unproductive exchanges between members, and any unproductive exchanges between members. Unproductive exchanges in this case are defined as "edgelording", "flaming", and "shitposting".
 
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Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
Now if people could actually report content that is generally detrimental to civil engagement....

If you see a post or posts that turn you off from engaging with a thread simply because either the antics of the poster or the sheer idiocy of their posts make a civil and productive response more effort than it is worth, use the report button. We (the Staff) don't see a great many posts and are to a great extent reliant on you (the poster) reporting the content that stops you from engaging with the forum in a productive manner.
 

Spartan303

In Captain America we Trust!
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
Osaul
We the Staff took a fairly hands off approach As we figured people here were rational adults and could self Moderate their behavior. To discuss ideas, politics and whatever under the sun to their hearts content in a civil manner. This was perhaps naive but we felt we had to try.

But this has clearly not been the case. And we the Staff didn't catch numerous violations of the rules as we dont actively patrol the forums looking for problems, and so much of the contentious content simply flew under our Radar. So obviously people have been taking advantage of the situation. But this also disturbs me that quite a few others have seen this, knew it was wrong and didnt report it either. So now we make a course correction and lay down the law.

Don't mistake my meaning here. We are not about to become Jackboot authoritarians. But we are not going to tolerate the flagrant violation of our rules either. The responsibility for this state of affairs lies with us and we accept that responsibility. Now we fix it.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
I think this is a good idea, as I myself have crossed some bounds and will admit it. I do think this could be taken advantage of later on down the road.

I hope each post of the civility rule is looked over by multiple mods to hopefully not allow for Bias. If possible that is. I think the number of reports should matter as well as one person perhaps angry reports could lead to abuse again.

Besides that, this is a good thing
 
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A series of graphic rules violations which were just going unreported because of our previous stance, and a general feeling that board culture was slipping away from what had been intended, and a tendency toward a cruder board culture in which insulting and flaming toward other users was the norm. We want a place where ideas can be freely exchanged, not where insults can be freely exchanged. There are plenty of places that you can insult other people on the internet. This is not supposed to be one of them, but a vocal minority of users has treated those rules and that general ethos with extreme contempt and disregard.
 

The Original Sixth

Well-known member
Founder
We the Staff took a fairly hands off approach As we figured people here were rational adults and could self Moderate their behavior. To discuss ideas, politics and whatever under the sun to their hearts content in a civil manner. This was perhaps naive but we felt we had to try.

You tend to think the best of people. That's probably a good trait to have if you need to risk your neck to save someone else's. Yes it was a bit naive, but so is the belief that you've done a bad job. The US is going through a collapse of its 80 year long political institution. The four major factions are at each other's throats (Far Right/Right/Left/Far Left). And we're going through a presidential election.

Honestly, given what I've seen on other sites, things here are going remarkably well.


But this has clearly not been the case. And we the Staff didn't catch numerous violations of the rules as we dont actively patrol the forums looking for problems, and so much of the contentious content simply flew under our Radar. So obviously people have been taking advantage of the situation. But this also disturbs me that quite a few others have seen this, knew it was wrong and didnt report it either. So now we make a course correction and lay down the law.

Your commitment to supporting the site is why you are where you are, but I would suggest that the reason why these rule violations happened without report is probably more down to people agreeing with you. Most of the members here probably don't feel the need to patrol the forums looking for problems. And unless presented with a post leveled at someone else on the forum (ie, an actual attack), most people are probably not even going to think twice about it.

You should also be aware that a lot of times, people skim posts that are too long, poorly put together, or comes from posters who they generally don't read, perhaps because they rarely have anything useful to say. So a lot of the time, people who post stupid or unhelpful things tend to get overlooked. We've seen this problem before.

Don't mistake my meaning here. We are not about to become Jackboot authoritarians. But we are not going to tolerate the flagrant violation of our rules either. The responsibility for this state of affairs lies with us and we accept that responsibility. Now we fix it.

I think the real issue is getting everyone on the same page. My guess is that most people probably won't report anything unless it's well past the line, such as directed at another site member or very explicit in their descriptions, but maybe there's some examples we could get of when we should get a moderator involved?
 

Shipmaster Sane

You have been weighed
Now if people could actually report content that is generally detrimental to civil engagement....

If you see a post or posts that turn you off from engaging with a thread simply because either the antics of the poster or the sheer idiocy of their posts make a civil and productive response more effort than it is worth, use the report button. We (the Staff) don't see a great many posts and are to a great extent reliant on you (the poster) reporting the content that stops you from engaging with the forum in a productive manner.
Yes people were having much too thick of skin and handling their conflicts themselves too frequently.

Running to teacher should be an option, not the baseline.


A series of graphic rules violations which were just going unreported because of our previous stance, and a general feeling that board culture was slipping away from what had been intended, and a tendency toward a cruder board culture in which insulting and flaming toward other users was the norm. We want a place where ideas can be freely exchanged, not where insults can be freely exchanged. There are plenty of places that you can insult other people on the internet. This is not supposed to be one of them, but a vocal minority of users has treated those rules and that general ethos with extreme contempt and disregard.
Ah, retroactive punishment based on new policy, everyone's favorite.
 
D

Deleted member 1

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Ah, retroactive punishment based on new policy, everyone's favorite.

Rule 2.0, the paragraph before the sub-sections, was intended to be enforced by the authors. So it's a case of judicial originalism for us to enforce it. You can, of course, disagree with that, but it won't be changed.
 

The Original Sixth

Well-known member
Founder
A series of graphic rules violations which were just going unreported because of our previous stance, and a general feeling that board culture was slipping away from what had been intended, and a tendency toward a cruder board culture in which insulting and flaming toward other users was the norm. We want a place where ideas can be freely exchanged, not where insults can be freely exchanged. There are plenty of places that you can insult other people on the internet. This is not supposed to be one of them, but a vocal minority of users has treated those rules and that general ethos with extreme contempt and disregard.

Can we get some more feedback on this? We can all probably guess when things are going well, but it's not always easy to tell what constitutes a failure. What sort of posts have you all this concerned? I know of one of them, but was it that bad or is this a trend?
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
Yes people were having much too thick of skin and handling their conflicts themselves too frequently.

Running to teacher should be an option, not the baseline.
We aren't interested in allowing the hecklers veto to gain favor. If you need homophobic slurs to make your point then perhaps you should rephrase. And if you think it a grand idea to defend the use of homophobic slurs under the header of "thin skin" then perhaps you should reassess your own preconceptions.
 

Shipmaster Sane

You have been weighed
I concede the point. Yes, we are doing that. New rules will not be retroactively applied, but policy on enforcement will be, in flagrante delicto. We won't be going back and hitting people for things that happened months ago.
That is a ridiculous position, but of course you are within your rights and powers to maintain a ridiculous position and theres no point in trying to do anything about it.
Say, here's a wild thought, while you're going through posts you failed to set a precedent for the punishment of, to now punish with extreme predjudice, could you, maybe, perhaps, let us see the posts that are being hit?
Or is this one of those "gut feeling" kind of seat of the pants moderation sprees where we're not talking about any specifics.



We aren't interested in allowing the hecklers veto to gain favor. If you need homophobic slurs to make your point then perhaps you should rephrase. And if you think it a grand idea to defend the use of homophobic slurs under the header of "thin skin" then perhaps you should reassess your own preconceptions.
The very concept of Homophobic slurs, slurs in general, and hate speech, are leftist shibboleths. Those unaccustomed to hearing their constant use need to do a shift on the factory floor sometime.
 
D

Deleted member 88

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I understand concerns over civility, of course, but this is supposed to be a free speech centered forum no?

It’s concerning, that the Sietch staff seem to be moving the forum in a more hug box centered direction. When the forum at least as far as I understood, wasn’t supposed to be one.

Is this going to be a shift towards a forum culture where only the most banal and mainstream ideas and beliefs are allowed to be exchanged? Simply for the sake of not upsetting or offending people?

If so, that is extremely disturbing.
 

Shipmaster Sane

You have been weighed
Threadban - Rule 2 violation, this is exactly the kind of behavior no longer tolerated.
I understand concerns over civility, of course, but this is supposed to be a free speech centered forum no?

It’s concerning, that the Sietch staff seem to be moving the forum in a more hug box centered direction. When the forum at least as far as I understood, wasn’t supposed to be one.

Is this going to be a shift towards a forum culture where only the most banal and mainstream ideas and beliefs are allowed to be exchanged? Simply for the sake of not upsetting or offending people?

If so, that is extremely disturbing.
Yeah hitler guy is right.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
I understand concerns over civility, of course, but this is supposed to be a free speech centered forum no?

It’s concerning, that the Sietch staff seem to be moving the forum in a more hug box centered direction.

Is this going to be a shift towards a forum culture where only the most banal and mainstream ideas and beliefs are allowed to be exchanged? Simply for the sake of not upsetting or offending people?

If so, that is extremely disturbing.
Or they do not want us to be like KF where we can call each other the N word, use it to make fun of people, call the LGBT people on the forum slurs even if they take offense. Would you like it if I called you a Uberrilgiuos biggot who thinks Jacen is fucking god? (I am tired and it is horrible but I am giving an example)
How about talking hate about your religion?

I mean we have seen how you react when people disagree about Jacen. Calling them stupid basically because they don't see your way,
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
The very concept of Homophobic slurs, slurs in general, and hate speech, are leftist shibboleths. Those unaccustomed to hearing their constant use need to do a shift on the factory floor sometime.
We don't give a damn about "hate speech" as a concept. Nor about what other environments allow and expect.

What we do care about is the environment that we set out to create and maintain. Think of TS as being invited to Thanksgiving at your grandmother's with the whole extended family. You can have frank, civil, and pleasant discussion about controversial topics but even if your grandmother agreed with a slur she would still smack you upside the head for polluting her home with them.

We expect polite and civil behavior.

Yeah hitler guy is right.
And Threadbanned. Here's an example of the kind of behavior that is no longer being tolerated.
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest
Or they do not want us to be like KF where we can call each other the N word, use it to make fun of people, call the LGBT people on the forum slurs even if they take offense. Would you like it if I called you a Uberrilgiuos biggot who thinks Jacen is fucking god? (I am tired and it is horrible but I am giving an example)
How about talking hate about your religion?

I mean we have seen how you react when people disagree about Jacen. Calling them stupid basically because they don't see your way,
That’s not how I reacted? Like at all?

I said I liked the character, you and one other person said you didn’t. I expressed dismay with your lack of knowledge of the material. (Such as it is).

That isn’t calling you stupid. I literally can not comprehend how that post was so easily misunderstood.
 
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