United States George Floyd Protests, Reactions and Riots

[Megadeath]

When things start burning, it is no longer a protest. When people start getting beaten, things thrown, it is no longer a protest

Again... Duh. Is that what's happening here though? I thought this was just a couple guys peacefully wandering around with assault rifles.

 

[ShieldWife]

Yes, I think that it’s safe to call a protest a riot when they start assaulting people, stealing or damaging property, preventing people from legally moving, or otherwise breaking the law. Such illegal activity should be stopped by the police, but when the police refuse to protect citizens from crime, then it becomes justified for citizens to protect themselves.

 

[Megadeath]

Yes, I think that it’s safe to call a protest a riot when they start assaulting people, stealing or damaging property, preventing people from legally moving, or otherwise breaking the law. Such illegal activity should be stopped by the police, but when the police refuse to protect citizens from crime, then it becomes justified for citizens to protect themselves.

Uh huh...

Is that what's happening here though? I thought this was just a couple guys peacefully wandering around with assault rifles.

 

[ShieldWife]

Uh huh...

Looks like they may be illegally blocking or people interfering in traffic. I’m not sure if doing that is a full fledged riot, but any law that you break while you’re brandishing a gun probably becomes a lot worse.

Though in theory carrying a gun during a protest shouldn’t be illegal, I can’t help but feel uncomfortable when a member of a group which has been part of an epidemic of violence, rioting, and terror across the USA for years is carrying a gun during a “protest.”

 

[Megadeath]

Looks like they may be illegally blocking or people interfering in traffic. I’m not sure if doing that is a full fledged riot, but any law that you break while you’re brandishing a gun probably becomes a lot worse.

Though in theory carrying a gun during a protest shouldn’t be illegal, I can’t help but feel uncomfortable when a member of a group which has been part of an epidemic of violence, rioting, and terror across the USA for years is carrying a gun during a “protest.”

Broadly agree with all that. Antifa really isn't "a group" but absolutely enough illegal activity has taken place in its name that I'd pay extra attention to anyone choosing to call themselves such.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

Antifa really isn't "a group"

Oh, so you are one of those bots. People who believe the lie that Antifa is an idea rather than an organization.

 

[Megadeath]

Oh, so you are one of those bots. People who believe the lie that Antifa is an idea rather than an organization.

There are many little groups that regularly take action who brand themselves "antifa". There's probably even a few largish groups. There are lots and lots of individuals who choose to represent themselves as antifa. Some groups undoubtedly do coordinate to some degree. There is no cohesive leadership. There is no paid, tracked or formal in anyway enrolment and equally there can be no meaningful expulsion. There is no official platform. There are no rules. There is in fact none of the things that to my mind define an organisation, or insofar as there may be, it would apply to some small subset, rather than the entire antifa branded mob.

If you have any kind of evidence that they are in fact a single cohesive and structured organisation you'll be the first person I've found with any.

 

[Rocinante]

If you have any kind of evidence that they are in fact a single cohesive and structured organisation you'll be the first person I've found with any.

NO ONE is claiming that. They are a group of smaller cells, with a larger over-arching goal/philosophy. And that is, among other things, to cause trouble, fuel a revolution, and dismantle the system.

This doesn't mean they aren't a fucking group. This is how insurgencies work.

You know this too, but you're just a liar.

 

[DarthOne]

NO ONE is claiming that. They are a group of smaller cells, with a larger over-arching goal/philosophy. And that is, among other things, to cause trouble, fuel a revolution, and dismantle the system.

This doesn't mean they aren't a fucking group. This is how insurgencies work.

You know this too, but you're just a liar.

Or just utterly clueless....

Edit: sorry mods, I’ll be good.

 

[Zachowon]

The IRA wernt a single cohesive group.

 

[Rocinante]

Or just utterly clueless....

I'm skirting the rules on the mod announcement so I'll be more vague here than I would like in the hopes that this doesn't cross over into baseless personal attacks. (The post I have in my head is far more rude)

While certain users may often be utterly clueless on a lot of things, I don't think this is one of those scenarios. He knows he's being dishonest and spinning things. No one who exists in reality really believes the stuff he said about antifa. You'd have to be delusional, and I don't think he's delusional. Just dishonest.

 

[ATP]

I'm skirting the rules on the mod announcement so I'll be more vague here than I would like in the hopes that this doesn't cross over into baseless personal attacks. (The post I have in my head is far more rude)

While certain users may often be utterly clueless on a lot of things, I don't think this is one of those scenarios. He knows he's being dishonest and spinning things. No one who exists in reality really believes the stuff he said about antifa. You'd have to be delusional, and I don't think he's delusional. Just dishonest.

Well,there are always exception.My mother was child when Stalin died,and remember,that everybody was happy but hide it.And then was some women crying for Stalin on street.Why? was she dishonest? probably,and knowing soviet secret services there were spies looking for people who condemn her.
But - she could be just stupid,too.

 

[Rocinante]

Well,there are always exception.My mother was child when Stalin died,and remember,that everybody was happy but hide it.And then was some women crying for Stalin on street.Why? was she dishonest? probably,and knowing soviet secret services there were spies looking for people who condemn her.
But - she could be just stupid,too.

I have more to say, but if I continue I will be outright breaking the rules instead of walking the line. So, I am going to refrain from here, and probably shouldn't have done the previous post either... but what's done is done.

 

[Megadeath]

NO ONE is claiming that. They are a group of smaller cells, with a larger over-arching goal/philosophy. And that is, among other things, to cause trouble, fuel a revolution, and dismantle the system.

This doesn't mean they aren't a fucking group. This is how insurgencies work.

You know this too, but you're just a liar.

Yes, it does mean they're not a group. It means they're at best a collection of many aligned groups. It's literally not an organisation, because it's not organised. It'd be just as incorrect as calling the French resistance an organisation. To be an organisation requires that it be organised. It's not. There is no person in charge of it all, there is no membership. In what sense is it an "organisation"?

The IRA wernt a single cohesive group.

No, but they were a hell of a lot more organised than antifa, and therefore closer to an organisation. They had distinct leadership, recruiting and membership, there was a hierarchical structure. The people in individual cells might not know any others, but the people above them did, and you could draw up an organisational chart for them showing the entirety down to the individuals if you had the knowledge. No matter how perfect your knowledge, you couldn't draw up such a chart for antifa, or right out their rule book. One "cell" of antifa might be a bunch of mates from school who decide to start attending protests one day, and calling themselves antifa. There's no one who'll tell them not to, no spokesman who goes on tv and takes credit for actions in antifa's name, or disavows ones they don't like.

It's as meaningless as saying Star Trek fans are an organisation, or over 60s are. There are groups of them, some of those groups get together with others, or even organise large meet ups. Some of those groups will have leaders of sorts. They're still not an organisation.

 

[Zachowon]

Yes, it does mean they're not a group. It means they're at best a collection of many aligned groups. It's literally not an organisation, because it's not organised. It'd be just as incorrect as calling the French resistance an organisation. To be an organisation requires that it be organised. It's not. There is no person in charge of it all, there is no membership. In what sense is it an "organisation"?


No, but they were a hell of a lot more organised than antifa, and therefore closer to an organisation. They had distinct leadership, recruiting and membership, there was a hierarchical structure. The people in individual cells might not know any others, but the people above them did, and you could draw up an organisational chart for them showing the entirety down to the individuals if you had the knowledge. No matter how perfect your knowledge, you couldn't draw up such a chart for antifa, or right out their rule book. One "cell" of antifa might be a bunch of mates from school who decide to start attending protests one day, and calling themselves antifa. There's no one who'll tell them not to, no spokesman who goes on tv and takes credit for actions in antifa's name, or disavows ones they don't like.

It's as meaningless as saying Star Trek fans are an organisation, or over 60s are. There are groups of them, some of those groups get together with others, or even organise large meet ups. Some of those groups will have leaders of sorts. They're still not an organisation.

ANTIFA are organized.
It is obvious by how they operate.
They are like the IRA.

You need to prove your claims when we have plenty ty of evidence from the summer

 

[Megadeath]

ANTIFA are organized.
It is obvious by how they operate.
They are like the IRA.

You need to prove your claims when we have plenty ty of evidence from the summer

Antifa are not organised. It's obvious from how they operate. They are not like the IRA.

You need to provide your purported evidence, rather than just claim it exists.

 

[Abhorsen]

We just told all of you to stop insulting users or their integrity. Now threadbans happen. @Urabrask Revealed, @Rocinante, and @Megadeath have all been given 24 hour threadbans for not doing so.

The punishments will escalate if we have to come here again.

 

[BlackDragon98]

Yes, I think that it’s safe to call a protest a riot when they start assaulting people, stealing or damaging property, preventing people from legally moving, or otherwise breaking the law. Such illegal activity should be stopped by the police, but when the police refuse to protect citizens from crime, then it becomes justified for citizens to protect themselves.

FREIKORPS FOREVER!
Und Doch!

 

[Zachowon]

Antifa are not organised. It's obvious from how they operate. They are not like the IRA.

You need to provide your purported evidence, rather than just claim it exists.

When you get back form your ban.

From the "Forming an ANTIFA Group: A Manual"

One extreme option is to function as a group but not give yourself a name, and not tell fellow activists what you are doing. Once you have a name, fascists will try to figure out “who is in the group.” Not having a public face makes your actions even more anonymous. If people are being targeted, for example after a conflict with fascists, a publicly known group will draw attention first. If there is no public presence, or no formalized organization with a name, this will complicate the process of identification and retaliation.

Consider using a cell model whenever possible, in which one member meets with others when required. For example, you might need a public face to talk to other groups, club owners to convince them to cancel Nazi bands, to meet people to receive information they don’t want to share online, orto table at events. To limit exposure, make sure one person is designated as the semi-public face, even if they never admit they are a group member. This limits how many people can be exposed.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

There are organised antifa groups.

But for the most part antifa is simply a label that can be used by nearly anyone. This is by design because Antifa is simply a front behind which operate much more powerful groups. People are focused on the methheads and pedos burning down buildings while ignoring the immense NGO structure that is actually doing the organising, funding, intelligence and legal work.