If Britain would have avoided confiscating the two Ottoman dreadnoughts, would the Ottomans have still entered WWI on the CP side?

WolfBear

Well-known member
If Britain would have avoided confiscating the two Ottoman dreadnoughts (or WWI would have been delayed until the Ottomans would have actually acquired these dreadnoughts), would the Ottomans have still entered WWI on the CP side? Any thoughts on this?
 

TheRejectionist

TheRejectionist
The British confiscation of a crowd funded couple of ships was the straw that broke the camel's back and was adding insult to injury after two humiliating wars (Italo-Turkish war and Balkan War) so you might have them not join.
 

stevep

Well-known member
If Britain would have avoided confiscating the two Ottoman dreadnoughts (or WWI would have been delayed until the Ottomans would have actually acquired these dreadnoughts), would the Ottomans have still entered WWI on the CP side? Any thoughts on this?

From what I've read I think at least two of the three leaders of the government were already supporting some alliance agreement with Germany so probably didn't make a massive difference. Not sure if Britain offered the same terms as they offered Chile for the two dreadnoughts they took over that were being constructed by them. [ A payment for their use related to the time involved and either a refund for new construction or the return of the ships, after an upgrade at the end of the war].
 

bintananth

behind a desk
The four dreadnoughts the British seized from Chile and the Ottoman Empire:

- HMS Canada: 10x14" and returned to Chile after the WWI. Decomissioned in 1958 and sold for scrap in 1959.
- HMS Eagle: completed as an aircraft carrier and retained by Britain. Sunk 11 August 1942.
- HMS Erin: 10x13.5" and scrapped after WWI.
- HMS Agincourt: 14x12", originally ordered by Brazil, and scrapped after WWI.

The RN wasn't going to let four British-built dreadnoughts fall into potentially unfriendly hands in 1914 under any circumstances. Everyone knew this. The British "we're keeping these" decision didn't have much - if any - impact on the Ottoman decision to side with Germany and Austria-Hungary.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
The four dreadnoughts the British seized from Chile and the Ottoman Empire:

- HMS Canada: 10x14" and returned to Chile after the WWI. Decomissioned in 1958 and sold for scrap in 1959.
- HMS Eagle: completed as an aircraft carrier and retained by Britain. Sunk 11 August 1942.
- HMS Erin: 10x13.5" and scrapped after WWI.
- HMS Agincourt: 14x12", originally ordered by Brazil, and scrapped after WWI.

The RN wasn't going to let four British-built dreadnoughts fall into potentially unfriendly hands in 1914 under any circumstances. Everyone knew this. The British "we're keeping these" decision didn't have much - if any - impact on the Ottoman decision to side with Germany and Austria-Hungary.

FWIW, weren't these ships built by a private British company?
 

bintananth

behind a desk
FWIW, weren't these ships built by a private British company?
Yes.

Most warships aren't built in government owned shipyards. This has been true for quite some time and still is.

Buying a brand new battleship built to your specs back then was sorta analagous to having a custom mansion built today: a whole lot of stuff needs to be outsourced.

With those, the design work was outsourced too.
 

edgeworthy

Well-known member
FWIW, weren't these ships built by a private British company?
There would however have been a clause in the contract allowing their requisition by the Royal Navy. All contracts for warships ordered by foreign powers built in a British yard did.
It had happened in the past without there being an actual war.
 

bintananth

behind a desk
There would however have been a clause in the contract allowing their requisition by the Royal Navy. All contracts for warships ordered by foreign powers built in a British yard did.
It had happened in the past without there being an actual war.
In 2014-2015 France did that to Russia with a pair of Mistral-class ships Russia ordered.

End result: the Russians got a refund followed by the French selling the ships to Egypt.
 
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