Movies Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Husky_Khan]

Interesting Behind the Scenes Story Regarding the Filming of Dr. Strange 2 and the Illuminati Scene with all of the Different Actors. This is from an Anson Mount interview, the actor who portrayed Black Bolt in the scene and stars in the Star Trek franchise when asked if he met fellow Star Trek actor Patrick Stewart.

"No, he was actually not there! [Laughs] He was shooting Picard. That was a very interesting shoot because my role came up in the reshoots. As you can imagine, several of the actors were quite busy. Patrick was not there. Chiwetel [Ejiofor] was not there. Krasinski's contract wasn't even done. He wasn't there. We had actors playing those roles, knowing that they were going to either be substituting their shots or transplanting faces. I've never done anything quite like that, and I was in disbelief of how well it cut together."
​

Apparently, most of the Illuminati wasn't even there. Or at least half of them. Which is kinda crazy but the scene was very well edited regardless since it didn't even occur to me. This might explain why some of the Heroes got fragged while others got a more prolonged fight scene perhaps...

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/anson-mount-discusses-scene-doctor-152200563.html

 

[Husky_Khan]

Saw Thor Love and Thunder and it wasn't bad, but it was probably the most generic MCU film so far. It was like Taika took what was novel with Thor: Ragnarok and decided to just double down on his goofy humor and blending dark topics with his satire and whimsical comedy that worked out well with Thor Ragnarok (and his other films like the amazing JoJo Rabbit) and what we got was... this.

This movie was filled with jokes and humor and jokes and humor that all of the potentially interesting emotional plot and character moments were diluted by that sort of MCU brand humor that Taika Watiti has perfected to the point of making this film basically an overdeveloped superhero dramedy. Usually most MCU films have some strong emotional beats and moments that can resonate with me and while there was potential for it here, it all fell flat due to the casual humor and lifeheartedness constantly thrown into the film that it dulled and blunted any emotional impact it might've had.

Also the movie was a CGI fest, and I don't rail against CGI in general but here it was just blah. There's a literal City of the Gods and all of the designs are just boring and uninteresting whether the locales or the divine entities. The plot was pretty blah. It started off somewhat interesting exploring the origins of Gorr the God Butcher and then you had another interesting plot regarding Jane Foster and the origins of the female Thor/Mighty Thor and both Christian Bale and Natalie Portman did a good job, but their talents were wasted on this dramedy and their stories and character arcs were just vehicles for more humor.

By the end, I realized this was basically a Kids Movie. Any appeal for the adults is strictly superficial. The Kids I was with enjoyed it and liked it alot and I can see why. It's not a 'Dumb' movie but the Humor makes it feel very Kids Friendly to the point its just blah entertainment for adults. And that detracts from the film because there are supposed to be plot points which appeal to adults more but all of them fall flat due to the Humor washing it all out.

I think this movie is like peak Taika Watiti and I'm leery of anything James Gunn might release in the future by association since his style is pretty similar to that of Taika with the usually entertaining offbeat humor. And James Gunn will be directed Guardians of the Galaxy 3 after all so we'll see if that's just as watered down as this movie.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

So I saw the recent trailer for she hulk, the CGI has improved a bit but something about it still feels off. The actress doesn't really feel like jen Walters too me so much as someone trying to pretend to be her. And I'm sorry, but I fall squarely into the category of she needs to be muscular, not as jacked as she is in current comics but I've seen pictures of swimmers and gymnast with more developed muscles. Right now she hulk feels less like "The Jade Amazon" and more like "tall green lady." And I'm sorry I let out a groan when it showed a closeup of her feet, and why are we doing forth wall breaks in the MCU? Wasn't the design philosophy supposed to be "what if the marvel universe took place in our world?"

I don't know I just don't trust the MCU to be of high quality anymore. And honestly, giving people's visceral gut reactions to female action heroes thanks to the left and the internet. It makes me worried for those of us who just want to make fun female superheroes.

Now I'm worried the reaction is going to be "dude why did you have to go woke and make your hero a woman? Why couldn't they be male?"

 

[Husky_Khan]

HUGE NEWS For PHASE FIVE (and Six) OF THE MCU!!!!!!!!!11111!!!!1!1!!

The San Diego Comic Con revealed approximately.... *starts counting then gives up* five hundred or so new projects in the pipeline for the next two PHASES of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.... the MULTIVERSE SAGA!

Announced up to now at the SDCC by Marvel includes:

Ant-Man & Wasp: Quantumania
Guardians of the Galaxy: Volume Three
The Marvels
Blade
Captain America: New World Order
Thunderbolts
Avengers: Kang Dynasty
Avengers: Secret Wars

But that's just the movies. On Disney Plus us loyal fans will also be rewarded with!

She-Hulk
Secret Invasion
What If? Season Two!
Echo
Loki: Season Two!
Ironheart
Agatha: Coven of Chaos
DareDevil: Born Again

Wow... the Thunderbolts... and She-Hulk... I don't know how I can get more excited for this exciting characters. Oh and Blade... I can't wait to see him in a movie.

Plus in addition we're getting Falcon as the new Captain America. And big name characters like Echo... and Ironheart... and uhh Agatha Harkness... who all totally weren't just supporting characters in other Disney Television series. Oh and Disney Plus is bringing back DareDevil... the R Rated TV series... on the family friendly Disney Plus. Joy...

BUT WAIT FANS there's more! I just heard about this HUGE announcement from the Hollywood Reporter that I was so excited about I forgot about it for a few days and then dug it up again.

https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/avengers-5-has-landed-the-best-marvel-phase-4-director

That's Right the Director of SHANG CHI, perhaps the (second... maybe third) Greatest Marvel Movie of All Time (in Phase Four) Daniel Destin-Crettin might become the Director of the Avengers movies in these next two phases as Marvel explores the MULTIVERSE and culminating with a confrontation with the greatest Avengers villain of all time, Black Kang.

I mean Kang... the Conqueror. Apparently he was in Loki. I don't remember him. *looks at a picture* Ohhhhhh that guy. He's going to be the main villain? I mean... HE'S GOING TO BE THE MAIN VILLAIN!!!!!1

What's even more exciting then a Director who never directed a big budget movie before Shang Chi taking the helm of the largest film franchise in history is that it won't stop with Avengers: Kang Dynasty (release date sometime in 2025) but he'll be helming other productions as well including even MORE Disney Plus series as well as SHANG CHI 2, the sequel to the (second... maybe third) Greatest Marvel Movie of All Time (in Phase Four)!

If The Hollywood Reporter's claim is correct, it'll be a busy few years for Cretton. As well as Shang-Chi 2, the 44-year-old is believed to be developing a Disney Plus series based on another underrated Marvel superhero in Wonder Man.

Meanwhile, a Shang-Chi spin-off show starring Meng'er Zhang's Xu Xialing – aka Shang-Chi's sister – is also in the works for Disney Plus.

If you thought the MCU couldn't outdo itself with Agatha Harkness and Echo television series, they're making one on Wonder Man (who is kinda cool) and Shang Chi's sister whose name I already forgot even though I just posted the article excerpt. She's going to bring back Marvel's big bad organization the Ten Rings or something.

Yay...

 

[Zachowon]

I am actually wondering how they will do the Thunderbolts.
Same actor for Daredevil so that's nice.
I am just wondering if they will make Thunderbolts not so family friendly

 

[Skallagrim]

Wow, it's almost as if RazorFist was totally right about all of this:




The Capeshit era is functionally over. They're just milking it now, so it's a zombie genre now.

 

[Zachowon]

If it was it wouldn't be making millions still.

 

[Skallagrim]

If it was it wouldn't be making millions still.

Did you actually watch the video? His whole point is that it'll still make money, which is why more of it will be made for years to come, but that the creative impulse has run out, so it's entirely (or almost entirely) dreck being pumped out for the soy-fed masses, with ever-diminishing returns as more and more of the audience tunes out. Until, eventually, the genre becomes unprofitable.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Yeah I still like a lot of the MCU content and CONSOOM a fair bit of it. But it's hard to deny the quality hasn't dropped off and the overall creativity and vision of it all seems to be lacking in this latest phase.

I liked Shang Chi as much as anyone and thought it was better then I expected it to be for example, but it wasn't anything comparable to the best movies in previous phases still. And most of the Disney Plus shows have been lukewarm at best. Ms. Marvel was like a good Superhero Teen Comedy like the kind of stuff you'd see on the actual Disney Channel. Moon Knight was good but had almost nothing to do with the rest of the MCU, which might've been a good thing. And Hawkeye was great but it was good because the show recognized its limitations in budget and fit that scope of being a fun team up story whose main antagonists were local crime lords.

Loki, Falcon & the Winter Soldier and Wandavision had some really big ambition and kinda undersold it.But now we're getting spinoff TV series involving secondary characters from Wandavision and Hawkeye in the form of Agatha Harkness and Echo getting their own show? And maybe Shang Chi's sister as well? Kinda scraping the barrel for streaming content.

And mocking the idea of shows for folks like She-Hulk, Wonder Man or the Thunderbolts can be taken separately from whether you think the comic book characters are (or were) cool.

 

[Zachowon]

I think movies that are more standalone but in the same universe are what they should thrive for.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Saw the first episode of She-Hulk. It was pretty blah. Like the most boring origin story ever. Don't get me wrong, it was 'funny' and the characters were quirky and enjoyable and I don't think the FEMINISM was as cringey as most of the internet critics had it, but it was still pretty bland as an episode overall.

I think the Anklebiters liked it more then I did actually. Found the various training exercises and the struggles She-Hulk had with her own powers and dealing with her cousin Bruce Banner more amusing and entertaining I suppose. I was wondering if they'd even be interested in watching She-Hulk since it marketed itself as a 'legal comedy' which isn't a particularly kid friendly genre.

The main flaws with the show, beyond it being essentially bland, was that there was this ongoing "joke" about Captain America being a virgin and it wasn't funny. Maybe the biggest crime was the shows irreverent style of humor. The main character is funny but only in the things happening to her and how she reacts to them, so the humor is situational, not because the actress herself is comedic or funny or humorous. Also Titania was cringe as fuck.

And yes, I am a fan of niche Marvel villains like Titania, especially female ones from prior eras. They replaced that beautiful Redheaded bodybuilder from Secret Wars/Colorado with some South Asian chick with a red wig and a terrible looking, cheap ass costume who SPOILERS gets knocked out in like one hit in an almost utterly random scene.

She-Hulk breaking the fourth wall is distracting as well. She's not Deadpool... did she ever break the fourth wall this habitually in comics? Regardless, its a poor narrative device. The entire first episode was kind of a poor narrative device.

Anyways... back to Titania. I will rant about this.

This is Titania...

This... is not Titania.

Spoiler

This is someone Indian chick in a wig with skinny arms who went shopping at Spirit Halloween and got what she could on clearance because it was cheap.

The Ginger Genocide has claimed another victim.

 

[MrBirthday]

She's not Deadpool... did she ever break the fourth wall this habitually in comics?

Yep. In fact, the Sensational She-Hulk run written by John Byrne long predates Deadpool in that regard.

 

[Zachowon]

Saw the first episode of She-Hulk. It was pretty blah. Like the most boring origin story ever. Don't get me wrong, it was 'funny' and the characters were quirky and enjoyable and I don't think the FEMINISM was as cringey as most of the internet critics had it, but it was still pretty bland as an episode overall.

I think the Anklebiters liked it more then I did actually. Found the various training exercises and the struggles She-Hulk had with her own powers and dealing with her cousin Bruce Banner more amusing and entertaining I suppose. I was wondering if they'd even be interested in watching She-Hulk since it marketed itself as a 'legal comedy' which isn't a particularly kid friendly genre.

The main flaws with the show, beyond it being essentially bland, was that there was this ongoing "joke" about Captain America being a virgin and it wasn't funny. Maybe the biggest crime was the shows irreverent style of humor. The main character is funny but only in the things happening to her and how she reacts to them, so the humor is situational, not because the actress herself is comedic or funny or humorous. Also Titania was cringe as fuck.

And yes, I am a fan of niche Marvel villains like Titania, especially female ones from prior eras. They replaced that beautiful Redheaded bodybuilder from Secret Wars/Colorado with some South Asian chick with a red wig and a terrible looking, cheap ass costume who SPOILERS gets knocked out in like one hit in an almost utterly random scene.

She-Hulk breaking the fourth wall is distracting as well. She's not Deadpool... did she ever break the fourth wall this habitually in comics? Regardless, its a poor narrative device. The entire first episode was kind of a poor narrative device.

Anyways... back to Titania. I will rant about this.

This is Titania...

This... is not Titania.

Spoiler

This is someone Indian chick in a wig with skinny arms who went shopping at Spirit Halloween and got what she could on clearance because it was cheap.

The Ginger Genocide has claimed another victim.

Someone neat me to it but yeah, she breaks the 4th a lot actually.

And uh, Titania often gets her ass handed to her a lot in comics.

I mean, here's hoping thag ain't the real Titania

 

[Emperor Tippy]

Honestly, the MCU started going (steeply) down hill with Winter Soldier.

When they decided both that Captain America had to be the main character/writer/director insert and that they had to hand him and everyone associated with him the biggest idiot ball around along with massive plot armor.

Age of Ultron should have been dumped for the Shield is Hydra plotline, setting that up with CA:WS, IM 3, Thor 2, and a Widow/Hawkeye movie (or rewriting WS to include the both of them).

Have the Cap movie end with Cap and team properly discovering the situation and have Avengers 2 follow it up basically immediately with the Avengers getting together to smash Hydra. Have Wanda wield the Scepter and on a team with Pietro, Bucky, and maybe Abomination. If you insist on making Wanda a good guy instead of the mind raping terrorist she actually is then have Pietro die in front of her because of Hydra and have her rage with the Scepter and break the mind control conditioning on her team. Hell, end the whole thing with it becoming public knowledge that Mind Control is a real thing and that Hydra used it on Bucky (and by implication everyone else who plays the Imperius defense).

Instead we get, what we got. Age of Ultron was like halfway decent until, suddenly, everyone decided that Tony was the bad guy and it was a ok to totally ignore that the mind raping witch was responsible for Ultron and setting the Hulk lose on a city, and that Cap and Thor both outright attacked and tried to kill one of their teammates.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

IMO, the big problem with the whole Winter Soldier and Civil War plotline is that it directly showed Steve placing his friendship with Bucky above all other loyalties while *not* allowing anyone else to call him on it outside of the Steve/Tony conflict. Like, even before the Accords are on the table, where are the consequences for Steve literally helping Bucky cripple and maim dozens of GSG-9 police officers who were *absolutely in the right* to be using lethal force *regardless* of any mind control?

Overall, I don't care how bad the terms of the Accords are, sovereign nations *absolutely* have the authority to tell the Avengers to fuck off, especially with the Avengers showing a history of trampling international borders in a way that makes Team America World Police look responsible. Steve argues that the Avengers "need" extraterritorial authority to respond to time sensitive planet killing tier threats, but that's not a very credible argument when the vast majority of Avengers operations we've seen on screen have actually had nothing to do with such threats.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Age of Ultron was pretty weak but Captain America: Winter Soldier and Captain America: Civil War were like two of the best received films of the MCU critically and by the fandom. Saying that's where the problems began seems to make people forget how much better those films were compared to most of the MCU films released in Phase One and Phase Two that were basically establishing that entire MCU formula.

The reason those Captain America sequels were so successful was because it actually had a bit of subversion of expectations of the formula and some strong character development, intrigue, more developed and sometimes sympathetic villains and moral complexity combined with the slick action and adventure and trademark humor that all of the MCU films are well regarded for.

where are the consequences for Steve literally helping Bucky cripple and maim dozens of GSG-9 police officers who were *absolutely in the right* to be using lethal force *regardless* of any mind control?

No one fucking cares? Mooks are Mooks. I remember seeing Tomorrow Never Dies and James Bond chucked a security guard into a printing press crushing him to death, then made a quip about how they print anything these days while reams of newspaper streaked with blood was being discharged beneath him. Pretty sure that was wrong and worthy of consequences as well. So was Jason Bourne helping "cripple and maim dozens" of cops across four or five films. I'm sure one could go on but ultimately... who gives af outside of interesting trivia to discuss regarding tropes or whatever.

If we're going to bring up Mooks getting beat up as an example of how an entire film franchise is "wrong" then apply it equally.

Steve argues that the Avengers "need" extraterritorial authority to respond to time sensitive planet killing tier threats, but that's not a very credible argument when the vast majority of Avengers operations we've seen on screen have actually had nothing to do with such threats.

*checks the films for Avengers operations on screen prior to Civil War*

1. Saving New York City from an Alien Invasion.
2. Crushing HYDRA in Sokovia.
3. Preventing Ultron From Wiping out the Earth by Sokovia from Dropping onto said Earth.

Options One and Three feel pretty time sensitive though I agree only one is a "time sensitive planet killing tier threat." The other two are merely "Planet Conquered by Hostile Power" threats which I guess is fine.

And of course in the case of Case Two regarding time sensitivity, I have no idea what HYDRA's timeframe for conquest was since Captain America and Friends prevented HYDRA from killing thirty million people with the subverted backing of an international government organization which I'm sure was far less resilient to corruption then whatever General Ross and his 187 country Intergovernmental Panel was going to propose.

And of course in Captain America: Civil War you actually dealt with the ramifications of Avenger unilateralism as a theme that grew out of Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron.

The very fact that people are arguing the merits of either side of a movie called CIVIL WAR should be taken as a credit for the film, not a detraction for the franchise... but here we are whining about the inherent wrongness of mooks getting beat up by protagonists in an action movie.

We should want more big budget films like Captain America: Civil War and Winter Soldier. The issues that faced the characters in those films aren't "problems" for the film. They actually enhanced the film and the story it was telling.

 

[Skallagrim]

The very fact that people are arguing the merits of either side of a movie called CIVIL WAR should be taken as a credit for the film, not a detraction for the franchise...

If anything, the biggest problem that I see with Civil War is how obviously right Cap is, and how obiously wrong Tony is. It's why I think Winter Soldier is far and away the best MCU film, and Civil War is only pretty good.

Everything established in the preceding films makes it clear that Cap A) has incontrovertible personal obligations to always help Bucky (his closest friend, who always stood up for him, and who's been brainwashed and is as such absolutely not guilty of what he was made to do) and B) is certainly and unquestionably right about government oversight over super-powered persons or items being just too dangerous to allow. (Whereas on the other hand, Cap has demonstrated his moral character again and again, making him about the best judge of what's right in the entire setting.)

The powerful governmental oversight organisation that previously existed was actually a front for literal Nazis, and almost conquered the world. The new oversight attempt is spearheaded by General Ross, who is demonstrably a dangerous criminal (and it's frankly insane he's not in prison). This is a no-brainer. In the wake of the SHIELD-is-HYDRA reveal, the pro-regulation position is simply untenable to any reasonable person.

Which hurts Civil War, because it could only work if both sides did have about equally reasonable points, and that's just... not the case. But the film tries to make it seem like they do.

 

[Zyobot]

If anything, the biggest problem that I see with Civil War is how obviously right Cap is, and how obiously wrong Tony is. It's why I think Winter Soldier is far and away the best MCU film, and Civil War is only pretty good.

Everything established in the preceding films makes it clear that Cap A) has incontrovertible personal obligations to always help Bucky (his closest friend, who always stood up for him, and who's been brainwashed and is as such absolutely not guilty of what he was made to do) and B) is certainly and unquestionably right about government oversight over super-powered persons or items being just too dangerous to allow. (Whereas on the other hand, Cap has demonstrated his moral character again and again, making him about the best judge of what's right in the entire setting.)

The powerful governmental oversight organisation that previously existed was actually a front for literal Nazis, and almost conquered the world. The new oversight attempt is spearheaded by General Ross, who is demonstrably a dangerous criminal (and it's frankly insane he's not in prison). This is a no-brainer. In the wake of the SHIELD-is-HYDRA reveal, the pro-regulation position is simply untenable to any reasonable person.

Which hurts Civil War, because it could only work if both sides did have about equally reasonable points, and that's just... not the case. But the film tries to make it seem like they do.

The US government is also... more than a little hypocritical to insist on reigning in superheroes, when it has a long history of doing the same bad or misguided things they accuse them of doing. In fact, we don't even have to look at what they did in the MCU, seeing as they pulled their fill of truly idiotic, selfish, and just plain evil crap in real life (Iraq War, Gulf of Tonkin, Operation Northwoods, et al), all of which I believe also happened in-universe.

Really, I'm not sure it would've hurt for Cap to point that all out when arguing for the Avengers' continued autonomy, though I suppose real-world audiences wouldn't have been as "receptive" if he made a big stink about it on-screen.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

@Skallagrim @Zyobot
I think Civil War and such was all about Stark trying to find a way to NOT be responsible for his actions.

Stark has constantly chosen poorly, and I think government control was his way out of that. Which really just shows how weak Stark is morally.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Stark has constantly chosen poorly, and I think government control was his way out of that. Which really just shows how weak Stark is morally.

On the other hand, Stark is also literally the only Avenger who has *ever* shown the slightest care about 1) collateral damage, 2) actually compensating innocent bystanders for the damage the Avengers, 3) common sense.

(Remember, with Ultron about to drop the city and *no options*, Captain America literally said they were morally obligated to NOT save the rest of the world if they couldn't save everyone in the city, because "that wasn't good enough".)