MGTOW, Minimalism, dating and the Establishment reaction.

[Arch Dornan]

Looking around.

Its going to be different for each country.

The middle east will probally triple down on islam. If I was a betting man Id say the west would see a resurgence of christianity as a reaction to all of the current bullshit. India will of course be hindu and there will be anti islamic pogroms. China however is the big wild card.

The comunists pretty much destroyed any spirtualism and religion in the country which has left a major void that can be filled by anything.

That's right it's different for each country that will affect their birthrate.

Out of all of them it would have to be those remote communities like the Amish that will continue natalism without much issues.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

Out of all of them it would have to be those remote communities like the Amish that will continue natalism without much issues.

The Amish also have an advantage in that they're more isolated from the rest of society.

That being said, I think that men who embrace the MGTOW idea tended to have some bit of trust issues with women.

 

[Cherico]

The Amish also have an advantage in that they're more isolated from the rest of society.

That being said, I think that men who embrace the MGTOW idea tended to have some bit of trust issues with women.

Trust is one of those things that has to be earned. Blindly trusting people will fuck your life over.

 

[Bassoe]

With biotech advancing and a number of countries that like to use rather totalitarian, technocratic solutions to problems and throwing massive amounts of resources at problems while disregarding such trivialities as ethics, decency and humanity?

Maybe the women will become unnecessary for procreation in the near future.

Bad idea. Not that it wouldn't hypothetically work, but that it'd be putting an unacceptable degree of power in the hands of unelected technocratic oligarchs, again. Suddenly, only people in the cloning vat company's good books can reproduce and their children all "accidentally" have a new heritable genetic disorder which can only be treated, not cured, merely treated, with a drug which was patented and therefore manufactured excursively by the very same cloning vat company. Ain't that an interesting coincidence.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Bad idea. Not that it wouldn't hypothetically work, but that it'd be putting an unacceptable degree of power in the hands of unelected technocratic oligarchs, again. Suddenly, only people in the cloning vat company's good books can reproduce and their children all "accidentally" have a new heritable genetic disorder which can only be treated, not cured, merely treated, with a drug which was patented and therefore manufactured excursively by the very same cloning vat company. Ain't that an interesting coincidence.

They'd love it. Worker drones, clone soldiers and all the fuckable sex slaves while the privileged few get the good shit as their children get all the good genes and best education.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

All of a sudden, we’re entering Gundam level human bioengineering if things like cloning vats and selective gene design would become the norm. What’s next, spatial awareness?

That being said, the paradox of a completely flawless enhanced human being is that it should that flawless human does end up sick, how would they cure him or her?

 

[Bassoe]

Cloning mammals is doable, including growing the resulting mammalian embryos in artificial wombs. Genetic modification to make deliberately defective animals who need regular drugs (insulin) to survive is doable. Doing all this to humans is just one mad scientist away.

 

[Zachowon]

All it takes is patience to find the right person

 

[Agent23]

Cloning mammals is doable, including growing the resulting mammalian embryos in artificial wombs. Genetic modification to make deliberately defective animals who need regular drugs (insulin) to survive is doable. Doing all this to humans is just one mad scientist away.

Well, if I can't live forever via brain uploading then at least I can raise "myself" better.
Worst case, scrape the clone's brain out and put mine in.

 

[Simonbob]

All it takes is patience to find the right person

And some good perception.

There's not as many around.

 

[bullethead]

That being said, I think that men who embrace the MGTOW idea tended to have some bit of trust issues with women.

I mean, what did people expect would happen when the kids of the 90s, who grew up on the Monica Lewinsky scandal, Duke Lacrosse case, tons of news about increasing divorce rates, news stories about fathers murder suiciding their families due to financial failure, stories about manipulative women, the general devaluation of men, and the importance of being financially stable before starting a family, reached the age of majority?

Growing up in an age when everything you say or do can be used against you doesn't do much to engender trust in other people, especially if you're a person who's slow to form social bonds/trust.

Add in a system that forces people to move around in order to survive, reduces the amount of opportunities for men and women to naturally meet outside of school/work, heavily rewards extroversion, and you make it even harder to find trustworthy mates.

And if you're a person who values loyalty in a relationship, the odds seem pretty stacked against you if you're not willing to get on the dating carousel and potentially taking multiple Ls before you get a W.

Beyond the bitterness and cynicism, MGTOW can basically be summed up as men do risk profiling and finding that the cost-benefit analysis of the modern way of finding a wife is firmly in the negative.

 

[Cherico]

I mean, what did people expect would happen when the kids of the 90s, who grew up on the Monica Lewinsky scandal, Duke Lacrosse case, tons of news about increasing divorce rates, news stories about fathers murder suiciding their families due to financial failure, stories about manipulative women, the general devaluation of men, and the importance of being financially stable before starting a family, reached the age of majority?

Growing up in an age when everything you say or do can be used against you doesn't do much to engender trust in other people, especially if you're a person who's slow to form social bonds/trust.

Add in a system that forces people to move around in order to survive, reduces the amount of opportunities for men and women to naturally meet outside of school/work, heavily rewards extroversion, and you make it even harder to find trustworthy mates.

And if you're a person who values loyalty in a relationship, the odds seem pretty stacked against you if you're not willing to get on the dating carousel and potentially taking multiple Ls before you get a W.

Beyond the bitterness and cynicism, MGTOW can basically be summed up as men do risk profiling and finding that the cost-benefit analysis of the modern way of finding a wife is firmly in the negative.

I honestly think a lot of the way of which our society currently works is just unsustainable and that society is hitting that breaking point.

 

[Zachowon]

I feel like I got lucky then worh how things are.
Even if my wife had mtiple bad exs before me.

 

[bullethead]

I honestly think a lot of the way of which our society currently works is just unsustainable and that society is hitting that breaking point.

Yeah, probably.

Japan's a few decades ahead of us on the curve, but our breakdown is probably going to be a lot bloodier.*

*(It's notable that Japan spawned the whole waifu thing, and one of the foundational traits of those characters is loyalty. The Japanese media industry managed to identify and profit off the big gap in people's lives created by society, which makes it ironic that a lot of anime has a "go out and make babies" bent to it.)

 

[posh-goofiness]

@bullethead I wouldn't call it ironic. It's just the end result of their society where they destroyed at least two generations of men while their sons watched. These men haven't changed into a new species overnight, they still want what men have always wanted. Their art reflects this.

 

[bullethead]

@bullethead I wouldn't call it ironic. It's just the end result of their society where they destroyed at least two generations of men while their sons watched. These men haven't changed into a new species overnight, they still want what men have always wanted. Their art reflects this.

I call it ironic because Shinzo Abe thought encouraging young people to make babies without solving the core issues that prevented them from doing that in the first place would work.

However, considering the fact that Japan has an absolutely fucked work culture and many of their companies are absurdly conservative (to the point that the pandemic was the first time many of them engaged in remote work), this is sadly unsurprising.

 

[Ixian]

This is just a snowflake version of chastity. Please, stop inventing stupid dysphemisms for virtuous behavior. If you can't call chastity or temperance by its name, are you actually being chaste or temperate?

To my understanding its nothing like chastity, and MGTOW doesn't even necessary imply no sex life, just that they refuse to be committed or tied down to a women. Basically you can seperate MGTOW adherents into two groups. Group 1 wants absolutely nothing to do with women in any real capacity, Group 2 wants absolutely no commitment to women, but will still sleep with them. IE he won't be handing out diamond rings, inviting a woman to move in with him, or paying for anything ever.

 

[Stargazer]

To my understanding its nothing like chastity, and MGTOW doesn't even necessary imply no sex life, just that they refuse to be committed or tied down to a women. Basically you can seperate MGTOW adherents into two groups. Group 1 wants absolutely nothing to do with women in any real capacity, Group 2 wants absolutely no commitment to women, but will still sleep with them. IE he won't be handing out diamond rings, inviting a woman to move in with him, or paying for anything ever.

Group 2 is reprehensible.

 

[Cherico]

Group 2 is reprehensible.

There are two matting strategy's dads and cads when you punish the dad's you get more cads.

 

[Ixian]

Group 2 is reprehensible.

I mean, its not something I agree with from a traditionalist standpoint, but I see the point they are trying to make. Men are often considered disposable in modern society, and often viewed by women as easy meal tickets, and not someone they are seriously considering as a potential partner, when women on average disregard 80% of men as viable partners, its no surprise when a certain percentage of men decided to treat others the same way they are treated. Golden Rule and all that.