PC Gaming My Issue with PC gaming/gamers

[KilroywasNOTHere]

I know I'm probably face first in a cow pie by posting this, but this is how I feel when talking to someone from the PC master race.

I'm aware I'm going to sound like a boomer and all, but $1200 for an extra 5fps is kind of stupid. I mean you can make fallout 76 look like the prettiest smoothest cow pie to ever leave a cow butit's still a cow pie. Not to mention most of a games features are dependent on the engine and the code. It seems weird that games look better than ever before and yet they seem more barebones than ever before. Looking at you WWE 2KXX series and Bethesda Fallout. Console's problem is not crap hardware, it's crap games. I don't know what do you guys think?

 

[Abhorsen]

I know I'm probably face first in a cow pie by posting this, but this is how I feel when talking to someone from the PC master race.


I'm aware I'm going to sound like a boomer and all, but $1200 for an extra 5fps is kind of stupid. I mean you can make fallout 76 look like the prettiest smoothest cow pie to ever leave a cow butit's still a cow pie. Not to mention most of a games features are dependent on the engine and the code. It seems weird that games look better than ever before and yet they seem more barebones than ever before. Looking at you WWE 2KXX series and Bethesda Fallout. Console's problem is not crap hardware, it's crap games. I don't know what do you guys think?

There's a couple of reasons PCs are master race:
1) They are cheaper. You'll already buy a PC for work/internet, so there's that.
1.5) Piracy/cheap steam games.
2) Variety of games.
3) Modability
4) You can choose how much performance you want, instead of being bound to a console generation.

The only real competition comes from exclusives and Nintendo doing their weird motion stuff that can't be done directly by computers at the time.

 

[Marduk]

It seems weird that games look better than ever before and yet they seem more barebones than ever before. Looking at you WWE 2KXX series and Bethesda Fallout. Console's problem is not crap hardware, it's crap games. I don't know what do you guys think?

a) Creative bankrupcy and hilariously crippling risk avoidance of AAA studios. Want cool new features that may or may not appeal to a wide audience, go for indies, and the right ones at that. That solution is mostly PC only though. AAA is more interested in the tired, tested and sure features that you may be getting bored with.
AAA studios making a multiplatform game with all the expensive graphics work won't take a risk that the new cool feature won't work well, or some people will get confused by it, or worn't like it. Maybye if 2-3 release generations of games in the genre have the feature and it gets wildly popular, they will slowly start thinking about including it.
There's just too much money involved to bet on an unknown card like that.

b) Hardware. But not in terms of beefier CPU and GPU. Consoles have an interface hardware problem and always did. Its significant that it has driven in-game interface designs of many multiplatform games so badly that "console interface" is a common complaint cause for PC gamers, and for a good reason. It makes complex management slow and annoyingly cludgy, even after adaptations that make it workable on a console controller at all (and much less than optimal on PC). Keyboard+mouse just allows a whole dimensions of additional complexity in a game's interface design, whether its shortcuts in a plain RTS or having actual buttons for a bazillion of absolutely necessary functions in a realistic simulator of some sort. Even when some consoles technically can have k+m plugged in, the games for them tend to not be designed purely for these again to not force console users to watch out for the "game will work only if you use k+m" requirement.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

There's a couple of reasons PCs are master race:
1) They are cheaper. You'll already buy a PC for work/internet, so there's that.
1.5) Piracy/cheap steam games.
2) Variety of games.
3) Modability
4) You can choose how much performance you want, instead of being bound to a console generation.

The only real competition comes from exclusives and Nintendo doing their weird motion stuff that can't be done directly by computers at the time.

1. except in order to play half the games on PC that you can with a console you have to buy equipment that cost about 3 times as much as a current gen console I really have a hard time believing that current console gens are using 10-15 year old hardware my PC isn't even that old. your talking anyway from $800-1200 just for the equipment to build the freaking thing vs $200-300 on a console that at the very least will last me 5 years and often closer to 10-12 years.

1.5 Piracy's ilegal and PSN and Xbox live have comparable prices plus many games you can't even officially play on PC without jury rigging a whole bunch of stuff.

2. Eh a lot of that has to do with studios more than platforms. Platforms, RPGs beat em ups first person shooters, all of these can be played on a console. the only 3 three games genres that I can think of that can't really be played on a console are RTS games, sim games and point and click games.

3. Ok the one advantage that PC games have...is it really worth $1000 dollar price tag? If Bethesda is anything to go by, that's going to be a hard sell.

4. At least with the console you can at least be 99% sure your game works out of the box. You know how many games I've tried to play but couldin't because either my tech is either too old OR too new?

 

[Abhorsen]

1. except in order to play half the games on PC that you can with a console you have to buy equipment that cost about 3 times as much as a current gen console I really have a hard time believing that current console gens are using 10-15 year old hardware my PC isn't even that old. your talking anyway from $800-1200 just for the equipment to build the freaking thing vs $200-300 on a console that at the very least will last me 5 years and often closer to 10-12 years.

The thing about the cost for the PC is that most people are already buying one for other reasons. So really, the cost of the gaming part of the PC is the cost difference between a PC one would get for work vs. a PC one would get for gaming. This is the price that needs to be compared to a console price. For me, that price difference isn't that high, as I also do some programming, so I want a higher than average end computer independent of gaming. So say I was going to buy a laptop worth $1000, but instead bought a higher end one for gaming purposes for $1300. That's the equivalent of buying a gaming console for $300. If instead I went with the $1000, that's buying a console for free.

Note that I can vary how much I want to spend on the 'console' part of the computer. This is a huge advantage to PCs.

1.5 Piracy's ilegal and PSN and Xbox live have comparable prices plus many games you can't even officially play on PC without jury rigging a whole bunch of stuff.

Piracy is illegal, and I don't do it. But it is still definitely part of the lure.

2. Eh a lot of that has to do with studios more than platforms. Platforms, RPGs beat em ups first person shooters, all of these can be played on a console. the only 3 three games genres that I can think of that can't really be played on a console are RTS games, sim games and point and click games.

Regardless of the reason why studios choose not to offer the games to console, they frequently don't. From an end user perspective, that's what I care about, not why they don't.

3. Ok the one advantage that PC games have...is it really worth $1000 dollar price tag? If Bethesda is anything to go by, that's going to be a hard sell.

From above, it's not really that much more expensive than a console. And Bethesda is a great example of why mods are worth it. The mods for Bethesda games are sometimes the entire reason to buy.

4. At least with the console you can at least be 99% sure your game works out of the box. You know how many games I've tried to play but couldin't because either my tech is either too old OR too new?

With steam, I rarely have this problem.

Also, related:

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

The thing about the cost for the PC is that most people are already buying one for other reasons. So really, the cost of the gaming part of the PC is the cost difference between a PC one would get for work vs. a PC one would get for gaming. This is the price that needs to be compared to a console price. For me, that price difference isn't that high, as I also do some programming, so I want a higher than average end computer independent of gaming. So say I was going to buy a laptop worth $1000, but instead bought a higher end one for gaming purposes for $1300. That's the equivalent of buying a gaming console for $300. If instead I went with the $1000, that's buying a console for free.

OK unless your a programmer or a tech snob who spends $1000 on a computer let alone $1000 on one strictly for gaming? As far as how much I can spend on gaming there really doesn't seem to be that much choice when it jumps from $0-500. That's been my experience.

Regardless of the reason why studios choose not to offer the games to console, they frequently don't. From an end user perspective, that's what I care about, not why they don't.

I'm the opposite. I want the industry to be forced to change, not have to jump through hoops for what is ultiamtly me giving them the privilage for wasting my time for a few hours a day.

From above, it's not really that much more expensive than a console. And Bethesda is a great example of why mods are worth it. The mods for Bethesda games are sometimes the entire reason to buy

I think your idea of that much more and my idea of not much more are two differnet ideas. When I think not that much more I'm thinking $5-20 bucks. and honestly I see Bethesda's model as the pincel of laziness. "Let's not worry about building our game or testing out bugs, the PC gamers will do it for us."

 

[Husky_Khan]

I'm not following how it's PC Games/Gamers that are somehow dumbening everything down for console gamers when it comes to features and gameplay.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

I'm not following how it's PC Games/Gamers that are somehow dueverything down for console gamers when it comes to features and gameplay.

cause everybody is focused on how shiny the game looks or how smooth it is over the actual game itself. plus all the gamers I ran into brag about buying $$$ graphics cards.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Actually, when it comes to dumbing down the games, it is usually done to enter the console market, due to limited input options on console controlers, opposed to mouse & keyboard setup. It was quite common gripe when multi platform games became a thing. Afterall, unlike consoles, PC has much greater diversity of genres and many more niche and in depth games, with many more small independent studios due to lower development costs for PC. Somehow blaming dumbing down of AAA games on PC alone is stupid, as PC only AAA are rather rare.

cause everybody is focused on how shiny the game looks or how smooth it is over the actual game itself.

Bullshit, most PC gamers are not particulary concerned about it, the rig maniacs are but a loud minority. I bought my computer seven years ago, a middle of the road configuration and it still works perfectly fine. Now while shiny is not particulary important, everyone likes the game to play smoothly, I still remember those frame rate drops in Dark Souls on PS3, when game would slow to a crawl.

plus all the gamers I ran into brag about buying $$$ graphics cards.

So you either live in some specific area or have confirmation bias.

 

[Marduk]

OK unless your a programmer or a tech snob who spends $1000 on a computer let alone $1000 on one strictly for gaming? As far as how much I can spend on gaming there really doesn't seem to be that much choice when it jumps from $0-500. That's been my experience.

Buying a PC is easy, but buying a decent PC cheaply requires some skills. As someone who lives in a place with not so great currency conversion to USD (and still regionally, PC gaming is vastly more popular than consoles), and in result of that, tech hardware prices , still i can assure you that you can get a PC on which new games work for much less than 1000$, in fact i'm, not sure if i've never had one that is worth this much, yet i can usually run any game on mine.
You can put together something workable in 300-600$ range.
As others mentioned, some just use that money to invest into better parts for their general use PC, and if you throw additional 300-600$ into general office PC budget, you can get something quite decent.
Of course you also need to start looking seriously at used\refurbished components and gradual upgrades if you want to make great bargains.

Also it seems obvious but due to some suggesting that it needs notice - if you want a gaming PC cheaply, laptops are most definitely not what you should aim for, the bang for the buck you get in them is very much less than desirable. Laptops inherently to their nature need design compromises on component size, power use, and thermal balance, and those compromises require sacrifices either in performance or more money for miniaturization and quality. If you want cheap yet decent performance, you definitely want a desktop PC, and don't skimp out on tower size either.

I'm the opposite. I want the industry to be forced to change, not have to jump through hoops for what is ultiamtly me giving them the privilage for wasting my time for a few hours a day.

Why would the whole industry change for your needs? How many of their customers want this change? The problem here is that too many people are perfectly happy playing yet another CoD or FIFA, and console publishing has too many technical, market and legal hoops to jump through for most indies to bother with them. Who would have thought that having a single company control what goes on your platform is bad for the customer. So the solution is... PC.

 

[S'task]

2. Eh a lot of that has to do with studios more than platforms. Platforms, RPGs beat em ups first person shooters, all of these can be played on a console. the only 3 three games genres that I can think of that can't really be played on a console are RTS games, sim games and point and click games.

. . .

The quality of life difference for FPS and RPGs on Console vs PC are extreme, and much of the dumbing down of systems in RPGs comes from moving into the Console Market. But then, good computer RPGs have an interface much more in common with RTS than 3rd person action games. One of the reasons for the collapse of AAA RPGs is due to the ridiculous amount of streamlining and interface limitations brought on by having to program for Consoles and their controllers. I mean, go play Dragon Age: Origins on PC and then on Console.

As for FPS, Mouse+Keyboard is such a superior interface to Controller that it's the main reason there's very limited cross platform play for FPSes between Console and PC (there's literally no technological reason they cannot crossplay) as mediocre PC players will utterly dominate even the best console players of FPS simple due to basic interface capability. Or, when there is cross play, Console players are given a systemic set of advantages that may include, but is not limited to: larger FOV and AIM ASSISTANCE. Consider that for a moment, developers have to provide what would on PC vs PC play be considered CHEATING in order to make up for the level of superiority of the interface.

Now, there's plenty of games where controllers are superior. Platforming games definitely play better with a controller compared to a Keyboard. Maybe one can make an argument for third person action games, but I'm not entirely sure.

So yes, you CAN play FPS and RPGs on Consoles. It's a strictly inferior experience.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Buying a PC is easy, but buying a decent PC cheaply requires some skills. As someone who lives in a place with not so great currency conversion to USD (and still regionally, PC gaming is vastly more popular than consoles), and in result of that, tech hardware prices , still i can assure you that you can get a PC on which new games work for much less than 1000$, in fact i'm, not sure if i've never had one that is worth this much, yet i can usually run any game on mine.
You can put together something workable in 300-600$ range.
As others mentioned, some just use that money to invest into better parts for their general use PC, and if you throw additional 300-600$ into general office PC budget, you can get something quite decent.
Of course you also need to start looking seriously at used\refurbished components and gradual upgrades if you want to make great bargains

serious question how hard it for someone with limited mobility and poor motor function to build a PC? I'm not talking idioms like "It's so easy anyone with 2 braincells...." I'm talking like actual logistics. I'll be frank. People talk to me how much cheaper it is to build it yourself but that's kind of a no crap kind of thing that could be applied to anything. The problem is i'm not certain I have the physical mobility to do it.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

serious question how hard it for someone with limited mobility and poor motor function to build a PC? I'm not talking idioms like "It's so easy anyone with 2 braincells...." I'm talking like actual logistics. I'll be frank. People talk to me how much cheaper it is to build it yourself but that's kind of a no crap kind of thing that could be applied to anything. The problem is i'm not certain I have the physical mobility to do it.

You can always buy the parts yourself and then find someone who knows what they are doing and pay them to do it. Also there are guides that can help you do things.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

You can always buy the parts yourself and then find someone who knows what they are doing and pay them to do it. Also there are guides that can help you do things.

yeah but how much is labor going to cost?

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

yeah but how much is labor going to cost?

It depends. You can probably ask on the appropriate reddit, or board or the like.

 

[Marduk]

serious question how hard it for someone with limited mobility and poor motor function to build a PC? I'm not talking idioms like "It's so easy anyone with 2 braincells...." I'm talking like actual logistics. I'll be frank. People talk to me how much cheaper it is to build it yourself but that's kind of a no crap kind of thing that could be applied to anything. The problem is i'm not certain I have the physical mobility to do it.

You can buy a complete used\prebuilt one off ebay or your local equivalent, sometimes you get decent deals, either to use it or to just modify it for the rest of the budget (probably much less and simpler work of switching/adding a couple components).
For building from scratch, any components possible you can order off the net for sure if you don't have a better alternative.
Tool wise set of few small to mid sized screwdrivers flat and cross head (or one with switchable heads), are all you need tool wise. Small flashlight maybye if you don't have good light where you will assemble it.
Other than that, its just unpacking all the stuff, assembling it and plugging it together. Some pieces may be small, and you will need to read instructions/watch tutorials for the first time for sure, but most of the pieces should come with their own instructions. Should take few hours at most even if you are new.
Alternatively, there is the option of "find a neighbor/family member/work friend/hobby buddy who lives nearby and knows computers", and there is a good chance he will do it for a sixpack of beer, pizza, or whatever is your local equivalent of that. If someone did it few times, it takes about half an hour to an hour if there are issues and depending on how complex the build is (but you won't be going for complex i guess), possibly even less for someone who does it regularly as work.

No idea about how bad your mobility issues are so hard to say there. If you have the room, you can do it on the floor (and in fact its not a bad idea even for someone with no issues), there is a lot of assembling of small parts in tight spaces, but if you have the dexterity to play action games at a decent level (or assemble reasonably complex lego projects), you should be able to handle that too. The tower, fully assembled, may weight anything from 5 to 20 kg depending on your build, most likely close to 10, other parts will be much lighter unless for some strange reason you get an ancient CRT monitor or a giant modern one.

 

[ParadiseLost]

yeah but how much is labor going to cost?

If you bring the parts yourself Best Buy charges $50.

Quite frankly though if you want a mid tier PC prebuilts are cheaper these days.

 

[Zachowon]

I know I'm probably face first in a cow pie by posting this, but this is how I feel when talking to someone from the PC master race.

I'm aware I'm going to sound like a boomer and all, but $1200 for an extra 5fps is kind of stupid. I mean you can make fallout 76 look like the prettiest smoothest cow pie to ever leave a cow butit's still a cow pie. Not to mention most of a games features are dependent on the engine and the code. It seems weird that games look better than ever before and yet they seem more barebones than ever before. Looking at you WWE 2KXX series and Bethesda Fallout. Console's problem is not crap hardware, it's crap games. I don't know what do you guys think?

I got a better computer because I could get very good one for cheaper in the states while in Korea. My old one could not play two games. The newest assassins creed games. Besides those two I could play every single game I wanted on a computer that is about two or three years old now. The old one is a laptop that I am pretty sure I could get cheaper had it been parts for a desktop.

serious question how hard it for someone with limited mobility and poor motor function to build a PC? I'm not talking idioms like "It's so easy anyone with 2 braincells...." I'm talking like actual logistics. I'll be frank. People talk to me how much cheaper it is to build it yourself but that's kind of a no crap kind of thing that could be applied to anything. The problem is i'm not certain I have the physical mobility to do it.

Pretty simple if you get certain processors that dont need thermal glue or anything. It is plug in, of course certain things go certain places, and watching mine be built by a buddy of mine, helped out a lot. Youtube and the like is very valuable.

If you bring the parts yourself Best Buy charges $50.

Quite frankly though if you want a mid tier PC prebuilts are cheaper these days.

Mid tier prebuilts are definently good. Mine is high end and I got a decent price and free building for mine. All depends on who you know.

 

[ParadiseLost]

Mid tier prebuilts are definently good. Mine is high end and I got a decent price and free building for mine. All depends on who you know.

Additionally you don't really need anything more than midtier unless you're doing 4K or want to max out VR settings.

An RTX 2060 is going to max out basically everything at 1080p.

However right now I'd wait for the next gen graphics cards to come out. Nvidia is likely going to launch even the lower gen ones quickly to prevent AMD from taking a huge portion of the budget market.

Meanwhile the RTX 3070 is expected to be cheaper than the RTX 2070 and better than the RTX 2080 Ti, suggesting there is going to be a huge jump in capability.

I wouldn't be surprised if the RTX 3050 (confirmed to exist) gives a similar experience to the RTX 2060 for a ~ $200 price.

Which is why I have no interest in upgrading right now.

 

[Zachowon]

Additionally you don't really need anything more than midtier unless you're doing 4K or want to max out VR settings.

An RTX 2060 is going to max out basically everything at 1080p.

And that is low high tier, as mid tier is 1660 and that does nearly the same thing. I have a 2060