EU Open Letter from French Ex-Military Officers Denouncing 'Islamism' Disintegrating the Country

[Airedale260]

France has the strongest western European military.
They want out of NATO perhaps to be able to dictate how they do things. If it wasn't for Biden I would say they would perhaps try to rework a alliance with the US that isn't as strict or something.

France is going to yurt, but it will recover for as long as they leave the EU and can focus entirely on being Nucelar dependent

Basically, yes, it comes down to France being arrogant and dumb enough to think that they can call the shots. Hence why Macron bashed NATO (he’s more keen on a French-led EU military) and why Le Pen wants out for much the same reasons as De Gaulle, because fuck everyone but France (which I can’t really blame them for, I suppose). The real problem is she wants closer ties with Russia, claiming they’re victims of Western aggression (as opposed to the reality of them being a bully with internal problems that they cover up with massive propaganda and suppression campaigns).

Meanwhile, NATO is an organization that’s still kind of lost in this day and age but has its purpose, especially in defending Eastern Europe against Russia, because Russia may not be as strong as the USSR but they’re still willing to be total assholes.

Germany basically relies on the EU at this point.

Yeah, it’s basically a captured export market for them, and it’s why they’re even more wedded to the idea of keeping the EU together. If the single market was no longer a thing, they’d have to actually be competitive on the world stage (oh the horror!). So they go for economic dominance and rely on the French for political and military clout. If Le Pen got elected that would send some very interesting and entertaining shockwaves around Europe.

So, we shall see.

 

[Zachowon]

Basically, yes, it comes down to France being arrogant and dumb enough to think that they can call the shots. Hence why Macron bashed NATO (he’s more keen on a French-led EU military) and why Le Pen wants out for much the same reasons as De Gaulle, because fuck everyone but France (which I can’t really blame them for, I suppose). The real problem is she wants closer ties with Russia, claiming they’re victims of Western aggression (as opposed to the reality of them being a bully with internal problems that they cover up with massive propaganda and suppression campaigns).

Meanwhile, NATO is an organization that’s still kind of lost in this day and age but has its purpose, especially in defending Eastern Europe against Russia, because Russia may not be as strong as the USSR but they’re still willing to be total assholes.



Yeah, it’s basically a captured export market for them, and it’s why they’re even more wedded to the idea of keeping the EU together. If the single market was no longer a thing, they’d have to actually be competitive on the world stage (oh the horror!). So they go for economic dominance and rely on the French for political and military clout. If Le Pen got elected that would send some very interesting and entertaining shockwaves around Europe.

So, we shall see.

I feel like everyone should focus their efforts towards China over Russia.
So if France becoming friendly with Russia makes them hate China more.
I wont complain

 

[Terthna]

The real problem is she wants closer ties with Russia, claiming they’re victims of Western aggression (as opposed to the reality of them being a bully with internal problems that they cover up with massive propaganda and suppression campaigns).

She's not wrong though; granted, they are also a bully with internal problems, which they cover up with massive propaganda and suppression campaigns. Mind you; that's true of most governments (including, as far as I'm aware, every single country in NATO) these days.

Meanwhile, NATO is an organization that’s still kind of lost in this day and age but has its purpose, especially in defending Eastern Europe against Russia, because Russia may not be as strong as the USSR but they’re still willing to be total assholes.

Eastern Europe doesn't need defending against Russia; they need defending against NATO, which will try to overthrow their legitimately elected governments so that a more pliable (though far more oppressive) one can be put in its place.

 

[Zachowon]

She's not wrong though; granted, they are also a bully with internal problems, which they cover up with massive propaganda and suppression campaigns. Mind you; that's true of most governments (including, as far as I'm aware, every single country in NATO) these days.


Eastern Europe doesn't need defending against Russia; they need defending against NATO, which will try to overthrow their legitimately elected governments so that a more pliable (though far more oppressive) one can be put in its place.

Eh, Estonia, and small countries like that actually do need help form larger countries. Because they are right next to Russia, who wants them

 

[Terthna]

Eh, Estonia, and small countries like that actually do need help form larger countries. Because they are right next to Russia, who wants them

What happened with Ukraine made it clear to me that the NATO countries (particularly the EU) wants them just as badly, if not more so; and they're willing to get a lot of people killed in order to make it happen. At least Russia is willing to play nice, so long as they're not pushed.

 

[Zachowon]

What happened with Ukraine made it clear to me that the NATO countries (particularly the EU) wants them just as badly, if not more so; and they're willing to get a lot of people killed in order to make it happen. At least Russia is willing to play nice, so long as they're not pushed.

Ukraine wasn't part of NATO last I checked

 

[Terthna]

Ukraine wasn't part of NATO last I checked

Not thus far; but considering the fact that before Viktor Yanukovych was elected president, the country was making moves to do so, it thus stands to reason then that removing him was intended to put the county back on track to joining NATO. If I were to hazard as guess as to why they haven't been allowed to join outright yet (beyond bureaucracy being as slow as it usually is, of course), it probably has something to do either with the civil war that has been raging over there since the coup, or with the fact that Russia turned out to not be as much of a pushover as the NATO countries originally assumed, and is apparently not going to let them get right up against its border without a fight.

 

[Airedale260]

I feel like everyone should focus their efforts towards China over Russia.
So if France becoming friendly with Russia makes them hate China more.
I wont complain

Why would it, though? Sure, Russia and China dislike each other but China is effectively in the process of making Russia their bitch. Not to mention the whole “enemy of my enemy is my friend” thinking is what got us into the current mess in the first place.

Russia isn’t our primary threat but it’s still a headache for us and a threat to their neighbors. And for all of the EU’s blathering about “European solidarity”, the major players in Western Europe don’t give a fuck about the eastern half. We still need to keep an eye on them, even if I doubt they’re going to actively engage in a staging of the Fula Gap Games.

She's not wrong though; granted, they are also a bully with internal problems, which they cover up with massive propaganda and suppression campaigns. Mind you; that's true of most governments (including, as far as I'm aware, every single country in NATO) these days.

Eastern Europe doesn't need defending against Russia; they need defending against NATO, which will try to overthrow their legitimately elected governments so that a more pliable (though far more oppressive) one can be put in its place.

Uh, she’s very wrong. Trying to murder people with chemical warfare in foreign countries, annexing territory that doesn’t actually belong to you, starting shit on multiple borders to keep your neighbors from pursuing closer alignment with the West, and generally just being obnoxious fuckheads is very much the definition of being an aggressor.

Moreover you’re delusional if you think that any shenanigans that go on in Western politics are even remotely on the level of Russia. We haven’t staged any apartment bombings for the purposes of tightening a grip on power domestically.

 

[Zachowon]

Why would it, though? Sure, Russia and China dislike each other but China is effectively in the process of making Russia their bitch. Not to mention the whole “enemy of my enemy is my friend” thinking is what got us into the current mess in the first place.

Russia isn’t our primary threat but it’s still a headache for us and a threat to their neighbors. And for all of the EU’s blathering about “European solidarity”, the major players in Western Europe don’t give a fuck about the eastern half. We still need to keep an eye on them, even if I doubt they’re going to actively engage in a staging of the Fula Gap Games.



Uh, she’s very wrong. Trying to murder people with chemical warfare in foreign countries, annexing territory that doesn’t actually belong to you, starting shit on multiple borders to keep your neighbors from pursuing closer alignment with the West, and generally just being obnoxious fuckheads is very much the definition of being an aggressor.

Moreover you’re delusional if you think that any shenanigans that go on in Western politics are even remotely on the level of Russia. We haven’t staged any apartment bombings for the purposes of tightening a grip on power domestically.

Russia would be handy against China

 

[PsihoKekec]

Which would explain why USA is doing everything it can to push Russia into alliance with China.

 

[ATP]

Russia would be handy against China

If they were ruled by smart criminals - yes.Unfortunatelly,KGB mafia which ruke them are making Russia China vassal state.Do not ask me why.
If they were smart,then after bombing their own cities to have pretex for invading Chechenya they would copied China model and become second or at least third world economy now.
Instead ,they relied on selling gas and opil and become second Venezuella.Do not ask me why,KGB colonels are supposed to be smart,and Putin,except being cryminal,behave like village idiot.

 

[King Arts]

If they were ruled by smart criminals - yes.Unfortunatelly,KGB mafia which ruke them are making Russia China vassal state.Do not ask me why.
If they were smart,then after bombing their own cities to have pretex for invading Chechenya they would copied China model and become second or at least third world economy now.
Instead ,they relied on selling gas and opil and become second Venezuella.Do not ask me why,KGB colonels are supposed to be smart,and Putin,except being cryminal,behave like village idiot.

Umm you seem to be the one that is arguing for Russia to be stupid. While Russia is not friendly to China if they had to pick between allying with America or China it makes sense for them to side with China. America is the stronger power and is more hostile to Russian foreign interests. If you read Machievelli you’d know that allying with the stronger power doesn’t make sense as that will simply ensure America remains the world hyper power. If China upstages America America would still be a regional world power and China would be in charge of most of Asia but that does not mean they can have force projection into Europe or the Middle East or other places Russia is involved in. So why should Russia ally with America over China?

 

[Navarro]

f China upstages America America would still be a regional world power and China would be in charge of most of Asia but that does not mean they can have force projection into Europe or the Middle East or other places Russia is involved in. So why should Russia ally with America over China?

A dominant China with no fear of American retaliation would have force projection into Russia. Look at a map.

 

[Zachowon]

At which case we get a new ally

 

[Navarro]

At which case we get a new ally

Russia as an American ally would be "slightly bigger Turkey" in this scenario.

 

[PsihoKekec]

I'm sure Russians would be thrilled to be cannon fodder for the USA.

 

[Zachowon]

I mean.
We would have MUCH better anti air capabilities

 

[ATP]

Umm you seem to be the one that is arguing for Russia to be stupid. While Russia is not friendly to China if they had to pick between allying with America or China it makes sense for them to side with China. America is the stronger power and is more hostile to Russian foreign interests. If you read Machievelli you’d know that allying with the stronger power doesn’t make sense as that will simply ensure America remains the world hyper power. If China upstages America America would still be a regional world power and China would be in charge of most of Asia but that does not mean they can have force projection into Europe or the Middle East or other places Russia is involved in. So why should Russia ally with America over China?

They are stupid,becouse if they copied China model they would become second China ,but they decide to rely on oil and gas and ended as bigger Venezuella.
Even then they could be smarter and sell it only to Japan - they need to gave away their Kurile islands in that case,but soviet needed it only for Pacyfic fleet,which Russia do not need.
But no,they decide to choose China - and are loosing Syberia to them as we speak.And becoming vassal state.

But,even now if they agree to support USA,Biden in exchange would let them massacre Poland to their heart conent,and they would be still hold Syberia.

Now,they are second Venetzuella when they could be second China,they are loosing Syberia,and they could not even massacre us,which is their old wet dream.Idiots.

 

[Bacle]

Russia as an American ally would be "slightly bigger Turkey" in this scenario.

Turkey didn't help craft the Treaty of Paris to give us our independence, or take the brunt of casualties in WW2.

Russia could be a very useful partner and ally if the Cold Warriors (on both sides) could just let things go.

Russia is a rival and competitor, China is an enemy.

 

[King Arts]

A dominant China with no fear of American retaliation would have force projection into Russia. Look at a map.

They already have force projection into Russia. They’ve had it for a while they almost border each other only a few nations like Mongolia are between them. Still Chinas focus is on the south and pacific, while currently the US is all over the place Eastern Europe the Middle East etc. A Russia China Iran axis is more likely for Russia to pursue instead of a Russia America alliance. Russia’s interests are in Europe where China has no reach and the Middle East where Russia isn’t a big player like America is. The only place I can see where China and am Russia would have tensions is Central Asia. But that’s still less tension than the Americans are giving Russia.

At which case we get a new ally

Yes if the Chinese are complete idiots like the Nazis who piss off everyone around them then Russia could be our ally against them. Can you show the chicoms being stupid and antagonize anyone except American and other East Asians?

They are stupid,becouse if they copied China model they would become second China ,but they decide to rely on oil and gas and ended as bigger Venezuella.
Even then they could be smarter and sell it only to Japan - they need to gave away their Kurile islands in that case,but soviet needed it only for Pacyfic fleet,which Russia do not need.
But no,they decide to choose China - and are loosing Syberia to them as we speak.And becoming vassal state.

But,even now if they agree to support USA,Biden in exchange would let them massacre Poland to their heart conent,and they would be still hold Syberia.

Now,they are second Venetzuella when they could be second China,they are loosing Syberia,and they could not even massacre us,which is their old wet dream.Idiots.

They can’t copy the China model China relied on its huge population to entice Business to invest and it makes them wealthy because of a large market. Russia does not have the same population. Also source on Russia losing Siberia? That would trigger a war between the Russians and Chinese.

Edit: oh and no way would any American allow the Russians to rebuild their power by going all the way back and taking Poland lol. They are threatening sanctions over small parts of Ukraine. Yet you think they will allow Ukraine Romania Hungary and more up till Poland to be part of a new Russian empire. Only in Putin’s wildest dreams does he become Tsar like that.