Ranking Bioware (Single Player) RPG Games

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik
Bioware Single Player RPG Game Tier List (Tiermaker)

Time for another tier list... in this case, it's ranking Bioware's twelve mostly single player Role Playing Games that they've released over two decades in their illustrious history.

They are as follows, in chronological order.

Baldurs Gate (1998)
Baldurs Gate II: Shadows of Amn (2000)
Neverwinter Nights (2002)
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (2003)
Jade Empire (2005)
Mass Effect (2007)
Dragon Age: Origins (2009)
Mass Effect 2 (2010)
Dragon Age II (2011)
Mass Effect 3 (2012)
Dragon Age: Inquisition (2014)
Mass Effect: Andromeda (2017)

Note I didn't include Star Wars: The Old Republic (2011) or Anthem (2019) because they were mostly multiplayer. When did you succumb to the Dialogue Wheel of Time/Ring of Power and how much do you love it?

If this turns out to generate discussion or whatever maybe I can tackle other companies and genres and see where it leads.
 

Val the Moofia Boss

Well-known member
I played Kotor 1. Dropped shortly after the "1, 2, 3" scene with the bounty hunter. Just wasn't into the clunky gameplay. Also wasn't into the aesthetics or the story.

I checked out SWTOR when it launched. Found it to be a mediocre WoW clone and dropped it after a few hours. There was a novel mechanic where in dungeons, whenever there is a dialogue option the players vote for which one is picked, and a random player is picked to speak on behalf of the party in cutscenes.

Played ME1 a couple years ago. Dropped right after I got back from the Krogan virus mission and my character had sex with Ashley for some reason (???). Also wasn't into the gameplay. Didn't like the bland aesthetics, and the only characters I vaguely liked were Wrex and Garrus. I found the writing to be pretty nonsensical (the Council dismisses Shepperd's accusations against Saren, and then when Shepperd plays an voice file that could easily be faked, the Council just ejects Saren just like that?).

I have DAO but I doubt I'll play it. I don't think I like Bioware gameplay, and I'm not into the aesthetics.
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
my-image.png

As great as they are, I never played either of the Baulders Gates enough to be able to rank them, so they have to hang out all alone.

I've played the rest or know enough about them to be able to rank them.

Top tier is Neverwinter Nights. But to call Neverwinter Nights a "game" is to completely undersell and misunderstand what Neverwinter Nights actually was. Neverwinter Nights was not a game, it was an engine. It included powerful user tools and an easy to learn fork of C that allowed users to add extensive new content to the game. Campaigns as long and well written as Bioware's exist made by users, as well as miniature MMOs known as "Persistent Worlds" allowed people to host others in their own gameworlds and tell expansive ongoing stories in a way no other game has allowed (aside from Neverwinter Nights 2). The sheer amount of content and flexibility of NWN makes it a unique thing on its own, and its a tragedy we've not seen a third followup.

I think the rest of my ratings are fairly self explanitory. KoTOR and Dragon Age: Origins are both amazing games with compelling storylines and characters, and so deserve near top slots. The only reason they don't sit with NWN is that both are simply games, not engines like NWN was, and had little support for end user content generation.

Dragon Age: Inquisition and Mass Effect occupy the next tier. Both had decent stories but were bogged down by gameplay elements that I cannot forget. In Mass Effect's case it was the clunky menu interface that was clearly meant for consoles even in the PC release that made changing gear and managing inventory a pain in the ass. For Dragon Age: Inquisition is was the stupid amount of grinding and tankiness of so many enemies in the world that made gameplay less fun and decidedly MMOy in what should have been a single player RPG.

And then we come to the Average tier where the "Twos" hang out together for similar but different reasons. Both reside here because they extensively dumbed down the character progression systems of their founding games, extensively removed options from character builds, and forced classes into tight molds with hard set weapon assignments. Dragon Age 2 also was clearly a rushed product, extensively reusing assets and areas. Meanwhile Mass Effect 2 had longer to cook, but is Average in that in many respects it didn't actually represent a continuation of the original Mass Effect, but rather a reboot of it.

There are no "meh" Bioware games...

Then we come to the bottom tier, and there resides only Mass Effect 3 and Andromeda. ME3 should be obvious for those who remember to controversy surrounding it. Even though it opened back up character progression some from how dumbed down it was in ME32 and tightened up gameplay impressively, the writing choices in the game were terrible and up their own ass, taking what was originally a Space Opera story and shoving it into a Cyberpunk mold, complete with three ending choices that were basically the same as the endings from the original Deus Ex (I'm not even kidding, the endings options are... uncannily identical), but without the extensive exploration of what those three endings could mean in the narrative before it. Thus ME3 destroyed all its story had worked up for. Meanwhile need I explain ME:A being there?
 

ParadiseLost

Well-known member
I'm kinda with @Val the Moofia Boss on this. Except I did finish ME1.

I want to play Bioware because I like playing acclaimed old games. But overall I'm just not very impressed with most of what I've seen.

Admittedly, I haven't really checked out the CRPGs because I struggle to get into CRPGs at all.

But when I played Mass Effect, I felt like I was playing a good, but ultimately inferior, version of Obsidian's The Outer Worlds.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik
VIr6Cyl.jpg


SO here we go...

I thought Mass Effect 2 was great. Which is odd because I didn't like the setup and the story actually... was okayish. Some of the characters and some of the side quests and such were also pretty bad IMHO. But overall... I liked it a lot. It was clear level up in playability from Mass Effect and I noticed it far more readily playing one game after another. Mass Effect was good but just in gameplay and function, the sequel was marked improvement.

And while it was a bit formulaic and oddly, the characters maybe not quite as likable as the ones in the first game, I think their storylines and interactions were done far better. And I liked having a character driven storyline through so much of the game. I really feel like Mass Effect 2 saw what worked and didn't with a solid RPG game and then improved on it and it worked. It was a great modern RPG game IMHO and fun bringing all of these characters in my party around on my quest to a lot of different interesting encounters and storylines across the galaxy and while the story itself wasn't amazing, I feel it told it pretty well.

Dragon Age Origins was a great game when it came out. It did its own twist on the fantasy setting and I know a lot of folks state it cribbed from The Witcher but even if I thought that true, whatever subversions and twists the Bioware team brought to its fantasy setting worked for me. The story was a cliched setup but I loved how they set it up. I loved how it had multiple origin stories with distinctive bits thrown into each separate campaign. I liked the politics and characters and even the combat and character progression. Highly enjoyable fantasy game and again, like with the Mass Effect series, I think for better or worse it brought Fantasy RPG games forward. Still wasn't perfect. And playing it now I realize... yikes... it hasn't actually aged well at all.

Knights of the Old Republic is great and the revelations of Revan will be talked about in gaming lore for years to come... and in Star Wars lore in general. That's how strong this game is. However amazing this game is, I do feel that it does get a bit exaggerated. It's still a very good game, but I'd put Dragon Age Origins over it. I actually think outside of the Revan bit, that Dragon Age has more seminal moments. Still it was a great game with a great Star Wars story and very epic in its own right with lots of memorable characters.

Mass Effect was good but I didn't realize how dated it was until I played Mass Effect 2 right after it. It had a clunky interface. The gameplay was solid. The story was good. I liked all of the characters and the world building was great. Solid introduction to the franchise. Overall a very good RPG and it had its own style and flair which kind of faded with the sequels of being a sort of swashbuckling... oldschool cinematic type of space romp.

Dragon Age II has some great moments. I really liked Kirkwall. I liked my characters. I loved talking with the Arishok and thought the discussions with him were actually some of the best moments or character interactions/conversations I've had in a game. I also loathed my lameass boyfriend who fomented the Templar/Mage contrivances... blargh. The real problem with Kirkwall and the decade long adventure in there was that it was spending a decade just in Kirkwall. I was so bummed by what was a fairly decent gaming experience that I never bothered with the franchise again. Decent game but it killed my interest in a sequel so I never actually played Dragon Age: Inquisition.

Baldurs Gate is a game I played a long time ago and I think it was alright. I should play it again now that there's an enhanced edition. I liked TTRPG'ing in Forgotten Realms but not really in CRPG's for whatever reason.

Mass Effect 3. The core bits of the game were fine. Gameplay and whatnot was fine. Characters were... not as good as previously. The story just launched way too quickly. I loathed the non-Reaper parts of the game dealing with the Illusive Man and Cerberus. And the games ending was just awful and terrible. Plus you needed to play multiplayer to get the best crappy ending apparently via the War Assets. Very disappointing. Like with Dragon Age II, this game killed my interest in this specific franchise.

As I said earlier... the 'Never Interested' games are Dragon Age Inquisition and Mass Effect Andromeda. Due to the games directly prior I lost interest in the sequels and nothing really convinced me to play the games since or otherwise give a try.

And yeah never played Baldurs Gate II or Neverwinter Nights.

I think the rule here is that Bioware should be more careful with sequels... or maybe just have Obsidian do the sequels for them. 😛
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Top