Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

Atarlost

Well-known member
You do realize that it is possible to hate the NWO and Russia at the same time, right?

DarthOne said "made up." That means he's claiming that some of the people and organizations being accused of supporting Russia don't actually support Russia.

It's possible to hate Russia and be accused of helping Russia at the same time if you also hate the NWO. Same way all non-Russian European nationalists are constantly being called nazis or fascists.
 

DarthOne

☦️
DarthOne said "made up." That means he's claiming that some of the people and organizations being accused of supporting Russia don't actually support Russia.

It's possible to hate Russia and be accused of helping Russia at the same time if you also hate the NWO. Same way all non-Russian European nationalists are constantly being called nazis or fascists.
Ding-ding-ding! We have a winner; that’s exactly what I was trying to say.
 

Jormungandr

The Midgard Wyrm
Founder
With the way the War is going at the moment, I'm actually expecting Ukraine to spear-front into Russia itself eventually.

Russia as a cohesive nation, I think, is done. Even if a peace is eventually reached, the former behemoth is a shell of what it once was militarily, economically, culturally, and by international reputation.

There's no doubt in my mind that some territories are going to splinter away, such as Chechnya.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
I'd declare it a very limited strike against Russian logistics/artillery positions/whatever to make sure they 'see' you're not aiming for Moscow.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
With the way the War is going at the moment, I'm actually expecting Ukraine to spear-front into Russia itself eventually.

Russia as a cohesive nation, I think, is done. Even if a peace is eventually reached, the former behemoth is a shell of what it once was militarily, economically, culturally, and by international reputation.

There's no doubt in my mind that some territories are going to splinter away, such as Chechnya.
I would if I were Ukraine. Then demand every Ukrainian child and citizen that was kidnapped be returned or you'll take more territory.
I'd declare it a very limited strike against Russian logistics/artillery positions/whatever to make sure they 'see' you're not aiming for Moscow.
Ukraine can justify firing across the border at positions/units firing on Ukraine, or positions near the border providing logistical support to the invasion forces.

SoF raids to rescue kidnapped Ukrainians is acceptable as well.

Conducting a ground invasion of European Russia however, needs to not be pushed, and no ground counter-invasion would help things.

Directly threatening Moscow with conventional forces is a counter-productive, with the way a lot of the Russian mindset operates. A border DMZ on Ukraine's 1991 borders ala the Korea's is more likely to be the end result.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
I'm not talking about attacking Moscow...what I'm really envisioning would be to completely cut Russia off from their warm-water ports.
That'd do more damage in the long run, like a wound going septic.
Look, if Russia needs to be taught a lesson about trying to take lands that aren't theirs, the Kuriles exist, and Japan has every right to take those islands back at any time it wants.
 

Jormungandr

The Midgard Wyrm
Founder
Look, if Russia needs to be taught a lesson about trying to take lands that aren't theirs, the Kuriles exist, and Japan has every right to take those islands back at any time it wants.
Losing those warm water ports means a loss of influence and trade. Their loss would hurt more in the long run than just a few islands, even if those islands have some strategic or resource (e.g. oil and gas) value.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
Really, I'm looking for a punitive result that hurts, but doesn't push Russia to the level of the Germans after WWI.

No matter what, there's going to be a buttload of butthurt. That's unavoidable.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Losing those warm water ports means a loss of influence and trade. Their loss would hurt more in the long run than just a few islands, even if those islands have some strategic or resource (e.g. oil and gas) value.
That's fair too.
Really, I'm looking for a punitive result that hurts, but doesn't push Russia to the level of the Germans after WWI.

No matter what, there's going to be a buttload of butthurt. That's unavoidable.
The Kurile's are a less escalatory option, and far more justifiable internationally.

The Kuriles also are far harder to justify a nuclear response to, compared to try to force Russia to give up Sochi.

The Kuriles do not threaten the Russian heartland or cut off access to the Black Sea, and Japan has enough people sympathetic to it in Russia, partly thanks to weebery, that justifying going to total war with Japan over the islands would be harder to play at home, compared to trying to remove Russia from the Black Sea ports outside of Ukrainian territory.

This is about hurting Russia's pride without pushing to a what would likely trigger a nuclear response, and punishing them while helping an ally reclaim their rightful territory.

If we absolutely need something more than the Kuriles to punish Russian and hurt them in the long term, then South Ossetia and Konisgberg/Kaliningrad do exist and removing Russian forces from those regions is justified, if one is willing to roll the dice on whether Russia would use nukes to keep Kaliningrad from reverting to it's rightful owners after the USSR fell.

Pushing Ukraine to try to take Sochi is not necessary or useful, and there are options to punish and hurt Russia that are far less likely to result in nuclear weapons flying out of fear the 'enemy' will sack Moscow.

Plus, I do think Russia would go full Belka and nuke it's own soil, at minimum, to stop an advancing conventional force if Ukrainian was forced to attempt to take Sochi and all the Black Sea coast Russia has.
 

DarthOne

☦️
The Kurile's are a less escalatory option, and far more justifiable internationally.

The Kuriles also are far harder to justify a nuclear response to, compared to try to force Russia to give up Sochi.

The Kuriles do not threaten the Russian heartland or cut off access to the Black Sea, and Japan has enough people sympathetic to it in Russia, partly thanks to weebery, that justifying going to total war with Japan over the islands would be harder to play at home, compared to trying to remove Russia from the Black Sea ports outside of Ukrainian territory.

This is about hurting Russia's pride without pushing to a what would likely trigger a nuclear response, and punishing them while helping an ally reclaim their rightful territory.

If we absolutely need something more than the Kuriles to punish Russian and hurt them in the long term, then South Ossetia and Konisgberg/Kaliningrad do exist and removing Russian forces from those regions is justified, if one is willing to roll the dice on whether Russia would use nukes to keep Kaliningrad from reverting to it's rightful owners after the USSR fell.

Pushing Ukraine to try to take Sochi is not necessary or useful, and there are options to punish and hurt Russia that are far less likely to result in nuclear weapons flying out of fear the 'enemy' will sack Moscow.

Plus, I do think Russia would go full Belka and nuke it's own soil, at minimum, to stop an advancing conventional force if Ukrainian was forced to attempt to take Sochi and all the Black Sea coast Russia has.

Why wouldn’t they? Go full Belka, that is.

I mean, you were the one going on and on about how crazy and unstable Putin and Russia is. Why the sudden change of heart on the matter?
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Why wouldn’t they? Go full Belka, that is.

I mean, you were the one going on and on about how crazy and unstable Putin and Russia is. Why the sudden change of heart on the matter?
It's a matter less of Putin being rational, than of looking at historical context and understanding the what are likely nuclear red-lines for the Russian public and what the Russian public might get angry over, but not be worth nukes.

Threatening the Russian heartland by trying to take Sochi is far, far more likely to make the Russia public and command chain willing to use nukes, compared to the Kuriles, South Ossetia, and Konisberg/Kaliningrad.

It's also factoring in what the CCP might be willing to back Russia on, versus what they may feel is not worth upsetting other trade partners in their Belt and Road plan.

Though the CCP may ok nukes for the Kuriles, just as a fuck you to Japan in their never-ending beef, so that has to be factored in too. But the CCP may not be willing to give Russia the greenlight for nukes, because doing so would kill non-proliferation agreements/arguments they want to use to keep Taiwan from pursuing their own nukes.
 

mrttao

Well-known member

> German peasant: I am cold, it is winter, and my natural gas heater isn't working because our government shut down the import of it from russia and then USA bombed the pipeline
> Liberal World Order: Germany is utterly packed for Russian Spies

Right... KGB assets... totally not just german peasantry who are suffering from the sanctions
DarthOne said "made up." That means he's claiming that some of the people and organizations being accused of supporting Russia don't actually support Russia.
The issue is that they are trying to make it sound like those are russian spies. instead of german peasants saying "stop the sanctions so I can heat my house with natural gas again"
 
Last edited:

mrttao

Well-known member
You do realize the Marxist infil of colleges and such have helped create the 'Liberal World Order' you complain about?
Facepalm... current russia are not fucking marxist

After USSR fell the commies either transformed into oligarchs, or left russia and emigrated to the west. Then after a very very short stint as a democracy it became a dictatorship under Putin.

Current russia is capitalist imperialist dictatorship.

The commies in the west do not answer to fucking Putin. How would he even pay them? he is broke as hell right now. Russian economy is in tatters.

The western commies are idealogues are by now 5th+ generation commies.
KGB sent spies to infiltrate holliwood, newspapers, and universities. There was a small pushback against it in the 1950s by McCarthy before KGB assets like the NYT destroyed him with a smear campaign for telling the truth.

KGB has cancelled this 50+ years ago. But now it is westerners teaching westerners to be commies without any influence from Russia anymore.

Russia are not fucking vampires which magically control their offsprings via progenitor bond.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Top