Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

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Marduk

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The CCP is much worse. Major General Mao Xinyu their head of Strategic Warfare, commander 10,000 men and of the espionage operation that has CCP police stations they've setup all over the world where there is a significant population of Chinese. And a University professor is functionally illiterate, morbidly obese and has the conversational capacity of a 12 year old. He holds all these titles and power due to his name and grandfather Mao Zedong. Supposedly he has written many books, but his claims of authorial prowess are in doubt. He is the favorite but of Chinese netizens for how obviously incompetent he is and yet the CCP spends millions every year to keep the facade that he inherited his grandfather's greatness(1). China is just better at putting up a fierce facade than Russia.

1 Mao destroyed China and set back its development 80 years with his antics. Which many of China's neighbors enjoyed seeing. Schadenfreude I think the Germans call the feeling
See, that's a classic department of seeming importance to stack away useless princelings somewhere they can't do much damage in anything important.
No idea how much of a figurehead is he even there.
For some reason they didn't send this most prestigious princeling to the most prestigious rocket force which actually deals with nuclear warfare strategy.
 

AmosTrask

Well-known member
See, that's a classic department of seeming importance to stack away useless princelings somewhere they can't do much damage in anything important.
No idea how much of a figurehead is he even there.
For some reason they didn't send this most prestigious princeling to the most prestigious rocket force which actually deals with nuclear warfare strategy.
Oh I know. Unfortunately the fucker still has the authority to disappear people who mocks him openly or looked at him wrong. But the PLA and PLAN are rife with incompetent officers, inadequate training and maintenance. Just like Russia ghost divisions of non-existent soldiers and vehicles to pad a general's pockets and palaces.

Yikes. South Africa just agreed to host and participate in the Russia - Chinese joint naval exercises. China probably leveraged it's Belt and Road loans to force their compliance.
 
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Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
That is incredibly based.
Every country should do that to their enemies.
Yeah, well in that case, fuck you. No, really. Fuck you for supporting what is being done to Ukrainian children, and fuck you for apparently being supportive of what was was done to Native children. Any respect I might have once had for you is now gone. You are now on the same level as the other insane Russian shill as far as I'm concerned. He also has cheered at the atrocities committed by the Russians. You are no different from him now. I don't want to see you whine anymore about being called a Vatnik, because you've earned that name now in my eyes.
 

Marduk

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Staff Member
That is incredibly based.
Every country should do that to their enemies.
Just so you know what you're endorsing.
Human Right Watch released a report last week on the forcible transfers of Ukrainians to Russia, a practice which the organisation described as "a serious violation of the laws of war that constitute war crimes and potential crimes against humanity".
 

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
What Russia is doing amounts to genocide. Destroying a peoples' culture is a genocide the same as just straight-up killing them. I wonder how many Ukrainian children will be punished for speaking their native language. I wonder how many will "disappear." In any case, @mrttao is apparently supportive of genocide, so, I reiterate, fuck him.
 

Blasterbot

Well-known member
Yeah, well in that case, fuck you. No, really. Fuck you for supporting what is being done to Ukrainian children, and fuck you for apparently being supportive of what was was done to Native children. Any respect I might have once had for you is now gone. You are now on the same level as the other insane Russian shill as far as I'm concerned. He also has cheered at the atrocities committed by the Russians. You are no different from him now. I don't want to see you whine anymore about being called a Vatnik, because you've earned that name now in my eyes.
how would you prefer dealing with conquered territories and peoples? bearing in mind that not eliminating the culture will leave resistance groups forming in the area you basically have to do something to eliminate the local culture and meld them into yours. we failed at this in the middle east for 2 decades and lost the war in the end. presuming you are conquering land how do you propose to hold on to it?
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Sure, if you are trying to convince me that a lot of Russians support the idea of Russian Empire rebuilding style policy, i'm not one of the "Russians are poor little liberals like everyone else oppressed by oligarchs and FSB" people, i can believe that.
Some are, some fit the stereotypes, some just want to live in a country that is not looked down upon.
The tone of the first sentence is touching and very informative of your bias.
I'll play the world's smallest violin for Russia's half-aborted attempts at settler colonizing nearby countries.
I have had dealings with people from the Baltic shitters, everyone from the HRs to the developers was insufferable.

Estonians are somewhat better, but they all look down on us and think we work for peanuts.

For the unfortunate people mixed up in them, i have the same advice i have for the diverse migrants who want to change western countries to be more like their homelands.
If you hate it here, perhaps think the people here are mean to you and treat you badly, and you want to live somewhere that's more like your home, then go fucking home.
Once I generate a large enough amount of money and once a nice, cleansing recession hits so that all of the deadwood and kindling are gone I will probably fuck off to some place in central or South-East Asia.

Or move back to my ancestral village and finish renovating the villa, I might even fork out the cash to put in luxuries like indoor plumbing. :ROFLMAO:
They don't even have the excuse that their homeland is a war torn failed state (yet) or overcrowded like Bangladesh. If they love Russia so much they can't learn the local language and care so much about its culture, and are supposedly treated so badly where they are, why don't they move there? It's not like the Balts are sending everyone they catch on the border to death camps, they would fucking roll out a red carpet for them to fuck off.
Maybe because they were born there and are stubborn, like a lot of other people.
Crimea river. It's nothing other countries don't do or deal with, and Russia is in no way behind the world average in this kind of stuff.


Yes, surrender sure is a way to defuse a tension with an expansionist power next door that has colonized them already in the past.
But whether it's a good way... let's not ask the people who are biased towards it.

Lol... Russia first. If you want to use paranoia to excuse shitty behavior for Russia, we have better excuses.
Yeah, I am not buying the whole "Muh new Russian Empire" narrative.It will overstretch the Russians and they remember well how much maintaining the Warsaw Pact cost them, I think most have far more realistic goals in mind.


So, first off Russia needs to stop thinking it will be an Empire or a Soviet Union like entity again. Ever. See, i can be a smartass too.

Nice try, asshole. Maybe when NPT dies through shenanigans in Asia and ME. Until then, becoming Europe's Iran or NK would only help Moscow's schemes regarding us and a lot, so no.
Oh, and India, Pakistan and Israel are not on the list?

They all forced their way into the 'Nuclear club' as did France to an extent.

You know, I thought that you Poles were all bluster and revanchism and greed for land coupled with some weirdo conspiracy theories talking to you and the other bellicose Pole is starting to make me think that you really are afraid to some extent of the Russkies.
We still need to have beneficial economic ties with countries that aren't trying to turn us into a satrapy and ways to deal with hybrid warfare style threats that Moscow is more than eager to use, don't play smartass games with me like that, stick your "neutrality" you know where.
Yeah, beneficial bilateral ties are a good thing, but aligning with you means that you will start running and jumping and dragging your allies along at the word Russia.
"Negotiate" is such an abused word these days. We don't want to negotiate the things they want, and they don't want to negotiate the things we want.

Since when Russia does not see us as a part of their "near abroad" and if not, what stops it from seeing us as their "near abroad" again whenever convenient?
If Russians "reassert themselves in their near abroad", this obviously is also our "near abroad" if not us too, so we absolutely have good reasons to go ballistic.
They are 5x your population, 55x your territory, have a sizable military-industrial complex, thousands of nukes and the ability to launch their own satellites, are self sufficient in energy and a lot of other raw materials.


It's hard to avoid noticing how you complain about Poland's attempts, real and imagined, to "reassert itself in its near abroad" and paint it as some sort of unreasonable nostalgia for past greatness... but at the same time consider Russia's far more aggressive and ambitious attempts at the same something natural that everyone should just roll with and negotiate (their surrender) to. Projection much?
I'll offer you a compromise then - i can accept that double standard, but we have to switch the standards around to the other country, how about that?
I am pretty sure you guys don't just want to defend yourselves, a lot of you salivate at the chance of getting large portions of Ukraine and Belarus back and from what I have read of your treatment of the Orthodox and cirillic-using Slavs I am not really all that inclined to to trust you, especially since anything Russia-related makes you act like a bull that has seen red.
I have absolute zero tolerance for this "sphere of influence for me, not for thee" crap Russia simps try to sell. This shit is exactly why Russia has such disappointing and falling levels of soft power in the near-abroad.
You tried to Color Revolution Belarus, you are very chummy with the Lithuanians and you have been asserting yourselves a lot.

However I doubt that you will get much traction in Orthodox areas.

As to spheres of influence, well, I am perfectly happy to cede to you half of Macedonia, Serbia, the non-Hungarian and non-Bulgarian parts of the merged invented successor state of Wallachia and Transilvania.
As long as you do not abuse any orthodox slavs cough cough aside for Serbians and Macedonians cough cough, ugh, something stuck in my throat or ethnic Russians you can have the shitty Baltics.
You can also have Bosnia, the western bits of Ukraine and Czechia, Slovakia if you and they like each-other.


However I do not trust you to not get a bit too greedy or for the success to go to your head and for you to decide to be more pushy, overstretch and dream up more Promethean nonsense or decide that all of us are a bunch of serfs on account of our Orthodox backwardness and cyrillic usage that you can just boss around.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
how would you prefer dealing with conquered territories and peoples? bearing in mind that not eliminating the culture will leave resistance groups forming in the area you basically have to do something to eliminate the local culture and meld them into yours. we failed at this in the middle east for 2 decades and lost the war in the end. presuming you are conquering land how do you propose to hold on to it?

If conquering other people requires genocide as a follow-up, then is it not clear that such conquest is equally immoral?
 

Blasterbot

Well-known member
If conquering other people requires genocide as a follow-up, then is it not clear that such conquest is equally immoral?
presuming you are in the situation that you engaged in conquest how do you pacify the region you have conquered? Say you are in charge of the glorious army of country of your choice. you have conquered the lands of evil bad country of your choice. you must hold the land. you must pacify the region. how do you go about dealing with the region you have conquered? keep in mind if you fail the conquered land turns into a quagmire that bleeds you country dry over decades. what has been successful in the past for quelling a rebellious region? what has failed? I am not saying russia is engaged in a successful strategy here either. genuinely asking. because america clearly doesn't know how to do it.
 

Marduk

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Staff Member
Maybe because they were born there and are stubborn, like a lot of other people.
The cry of butthurt third worlders in Europe and illegal South Americans in USA.
The answer should be the same in either case. They are free and in fact encouraged to leave if they think it's so bad for them out there.
Yeah, I am not buying the whole "Muh new Russian Empire" narrative.It will overstretch the Russians and they remember well how much maintaining the Warsaw Pact cost them, I think most have far more realistic goals in mind.
"Totally not Russian Empire, just a little empire, for now, and then we will see" is not much of a counter argument, and definitely not a convincing one.
Oh, and India, Pakistan and Israel are not on the list?
When did they sign the NPT?

They all forced their way into the 'Nuclear club' as did France to an extent.
Dude, NPT didn't even exist when France did. The only country that went nuclear after the Cold War with its distractions and on top of that after signing and leaving NPT is.... North Korea. Yeah...
You know, I thought that you Poles were all bluster and revanchism and greed for land coupled with some weirdo conspiracy theories talking to you and the other bellicose Pole is starting to make me think that you really are afraid to some extent of the Russkies.
Yeah, pick fights with allies over stupid shit to make a point to enemies, as if anyone gives a shit what you think.
Yeah, beneficial bilateral ties are a good thing, but aligning with you means that you will start running and jumping and dragging your allies along at the word Russia.
Congratulations to our diplomacy, screw you. You talked about realpolitik, this is successful realpolitik in practice.
They are 5x your population, 55x your territory, have a sizable military-industrial complex, thousands of nukes and the ability to launch their own satellites, are self sufficient in energy and a lot of other raw materials.
Spare me the advertising brochure. And yet they are stuck in the several times poorer Ukraine now... Which doesn't have NATO gold membership card even.
I am pretty sure you guys don't just want to defend yourselves, a lot of you salivate at the chance of getting large portions of Ukraine and Belarus back and from what I have read of your treatment of the Orthodox and cirillic-using Slavs I am not really all that inclined to to trust you, especially since anything Russia-related makes you act like a bull that has seen red.
Spare me the propaganda too. We have millions of said " Orthodox and cirillic-using Slavs" volunteering to live here since years, somehow they aren't running to Russia. What next, are you going to bring up some stories of Polish noblemen whipping poor orthodox peasants in the fields as if it was somehow relevant?
You tried to Color Revolution Belarus, you are very chummy with the Lithuanians and you have been asserting yourselves a lot.
So fucking what? Russia does its own color revolutions with less fancy names all the time, if they can play this game, why not us.
>chummy with Lithuanians
Since over half a millenium lol.
However I doubt that you will get much traction in Orthodox areas.
>Orthodox
Since when are you such a holier than thou guy? Who even cares? The "orthodox areas" are generally less religious than Poland (which is also less religious than it was in the 90's, nevermind 17th century) to begin with, so literally who cares, besides eurocrats insist we tolerate far worse stuff, nevermind that sometimes you're sounding as if you are regurgitating the religious angle of local Russian propaganda straight from 17th century, as if everyone cared about the same stuff and as much now.
As to spheres of influence, well, I am perfectly happy to cede to you half of Macedonia, Serbia, the non-Hungarian and non-Bulgarian parts of the merged invented successor state of Wallachia and Transilvania.
As long as you do not abuse any orthodox slavs cough cough aside for Serbians and Macedonians cough cough, ugh, something stuck in my throat or ethnic Russians you can have the shitty Baltics.
You can also have Bosnia, the western bits of Ukraine and Czechia, Slovakia if you and they like each-other.


However I do not trust you to not get a bit too greedy or for the success to go to your head and for you to decide to be more pushy, overstretch and dream up more Promethean nonsense or decide that all of us are a bunch of serfs on account of our Orthodox backwardness and cyrillic usage that you can just boss around.
Who made you the emperor of Europe? Why would we want random places we have little to no history or connection with? Where Poland,where Macedonia?

Prometheism or Prometheanism (Polish: Prometeizm) was a political project initiated by Józef Piłsudski, a principal statesman of the Second Polish Republic from 1918 to 1935. Its aim was to weaken the Russian Empire and its successor states, including the Soviet Union, by supporting nationalist independence movements among the major non-Russian peoples that lived within the borders of Russia and the Soviet Union.[1
Can you at least make your accusations, bullshit and offers consistent with each other? One moment you accuse Poland of trying to landgrab neighbors and oppress them for their orthodoxy or whatever, and few sentences later, you accuse it of... supporting nationalist independence movements in these same lands! Come on, we can't be doing both.
Also, those Polish bastards, supporting independence movements, how dare they, why won't they think of the suffering of poor eastern empires, don't they know how hard is it to run an empire even without nationalist independence movements...
 
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King Arts

Well-known member
presuming you are in the situation that you engaged in conquest how do you pacify the region you have conquered? Say you are in charge of the glorious army of country of your choice. you have conquered the lands of evil bad country of your choice. you must hold the land. you must pacify the region. how do you go about dealing with the region you have conquered? keep in mind if you fail the conquered land turns into a quagmire that bleeds you country dry over decades. what has been successful in the past for quelling a rebellious region? what has failed? I am not saying russia is engaged in a successful strategy here either. genuinely asking. because america clearly doesn't know how to do it.
Again don’t get involved in quagmires. Once the nation is beaten just leave and let them rebuild themselves. It’s pretty fucked up to take kids from one group ethnic or religious and raise them in another. Not as bad as real genocide and those yelling it are virtue signaling but it’s still pretty fucking bad.
 

Blasterbot

Well-known member
Again don’t get involved in quagmires. Once the nation is beaten just leave and let them rebuild themselves. It’s pretty fucked up to take kids from one group ethnic or religious and raise them in another. Not as bad as real genocide and those yelling it are virtue signaling but it’s still pretty fucking bad.
Ok but then you are not actually conquering the land and you are going to deal with a generation that hates you. I agree that avoiding quagmires is ideal but you are just going in kicking over the current government and telling them to not make you come back. not sure if that is effective for a long term strategy.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
Ok but then you are not actually conquering the land and you are going to deal with a generation that hates you. I agree that avoiding quagmires is ideal but you are just going in kicking over the current government and telling them to not make you come back. not sure if that is effective for a long term strategy.
A m pretty sure it would be. It’s just never been done in the modern era.
 

Blasterbot

Well-known member
A m pretty sure it would be. It’s just never been done in the modern era.
if we compare it to what we wasted in the middle east I absolutely agree it would have been more efficient for our resources if we just spent 1 month in A-stan bombing military and government targets and then fucking off. lefties would still prolly find something to bitch about with it but they are never sated. still dodging the hypothetical but whatever. people don't want to think about what it takes to conquer and hold land.
 

mrttao

Well-known member
Yeah, well in that case, fuck you. No, really. Fuck you for supporting what is being done to Ukrainian children, and fuck you for apparently being supportive of what was was done to Native children. Any respect I might have once had for you is now gone. You are now on the same level as the other insane Russian shill as far as I'm concerned. He also has cheered at the atrocities committed by the Russians. You are no different from him now. I don't want to see you whine anymore about being called a Vatnik, because you've earned that name now in my eyes.
America was absolutely right to americanize the indians.
They were vicious murderous barbarians and needed to be brought the light of culture and civilization. And they were.
Even if the indians were not barbarians, it would still be the correct path that any nation which wants to survive should take with its conquered enemies.

It is a shame we turned into a bunch of cucks who don't do that anymore.

Cultural assimilation is not "genocide".
Because you are not killing people, you are assimilating them to remove the hostile culture.
The culture is gone, but not the people.

If USA was not full of cucks then we would have Americanized Iran and Iraq the same way the Indians were.
Instead, the stupid approach used resulted in ISIS.

Calling me a russian shill is frankly retarded.
While I respect the Russians for not being cucks.
I would rather we did this to them. I don't want russia to russify us.
Not that there is any risk of them ever doing so.
while they have the will to Russify us, they are a paper tiger who is on the cusp of total collapse.

Forced cultural assimilation is called winning.
Something you cuckservatives cannot comprehend.
Do you think about things before you say them? :cautious:
Answer the question.
 
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mrttao

Well-known member
If conquering other people requires genocide as a follow-up, then is it not clear that such conquest is equally immoral?
Congrats, you created generations of ethnic violence. countless dead people. and probably an actual real genocide (killing instead of cultural assimilation) in your zeal to uphold stupid emotional ideals that were proven to never ever work.

It is people sharing your ideals that are responsible for ISIS.
"It was not my fault"... "couldn't be helped"... "nobody could have prevented it".
 

Tiamat

I've seen the future...
America was absolutely right to americanize the indians.
They were vicious murderous barbarians and needed to be brought the light of culture and civilization. And they were.
Even if the indians were not barbarians, it would still be the correct path that any nation which wants to survive should take with its conquered enemies.

It is a shame we turned into a bunch of cucks who don't do that anymore.

Cultural assimilation is not "genocide".
Because you are not killing people, you are assimilating them to remove the hostile culture.
The culture is gone, but not the people.

If USA was not full of cucks then we would have Americanized Iran and Iraq the same way the Indians were.
Instead, the stupid approach used resulted in ISIS.

Calling me a russian shill is frankly retarded.
While I respect the Russians for not being cucks.
I would rather we did this to them. I don't want russia to russify us.
Not that there is any risk of them ever doing so.
while they have the will to Russify us, they are a paper tiger who is on the cusp of total collapse.

Forced cultural assimilation is called winning.
Something you cuckservatives cannot comprehend.

Answer the question.

Congrats, you created generations of ethnic violence. countless dead people. and probably an actual real genocide (killing instead of cultural assimilation) in your zeal to uphold stupid emotional ideals that were proven to never ever work.

It is people sharing your ideals that are responsible for ISIS.
"It was not my fault"... "couldn't be helped"... "nobody could have prevented it".

And you are an utterly reprehensible piece of shit and a disgrace.

Hey, I'm happy to be called a cuck or whatever if it differentiates me from someone like you.
 
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