Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[Bassoe]

USA mass slaughtered its own citizens in WW2. via an illegal draft at that. And all that achieved is propping up stalin and mao.

This is such a shit argument. The US tried isolationism until it's leaders decided to manipulate it into a war anyway.
And yes Hitler taking over those nations wasn't America's problem, by the way if we did nothing the Nazis and the Commies would have probably both collapsed after killing each other.

Look, I support Ukraine and all, but let's not start historical revisionism while defending it and aid going to it; US isolationism didn't cause WW2 nor were isolationist feelings unwarranted at the time.

Woodrow Wilson's fuckery at Versailles sowed the seeds that sprouted into WW2, between the way the German's were utterly fucked out of proportion to their 'guilt' in the war, while Wilson stiffed the Japanese for their help.

We had no bloody idea how bad or horrible the actions of the Germans and Japanese truly were till WW2 was already well underway, so the public didn't know the horrors that were happening in occupied areas the way we can see things in minutes or hours now, and the idea of the US having to 'uphold the world order' didn't exist back then.

We can support Ukraine without trying to rewrite the past.

As a general rule, forced conscription should be considered a form of slavery and therefore a crime against humanity. If a nation can't voluntarily motivate enough of its own citizens to serve as soldiers, it deserves to lose.

Which unfortunately does nothing about the problem of Stephen Wertheim and Elizabeth D. Samet having been right and decades of propagandized triumphalist media in place of actual history education having created hordes of brainwashed morons with no understanding of consequences which psychotic neocons are using as a voting bloc to support even more wealth transfer from the taxpayers to their military-industry complex masters, despite this having already killed nearly a million people throughout the third world and being on track to kill everyone if they actually get the war with Russia they want.

 

[Buba]

Woodrow Wilson's fuckery at Versailles sowed the seeds that sprouted into WW2, between the way the German's were utterly fucked out of proportion to their 'guilt' in the war,

That's more France and Britain than USA, no?

 

[AmosTrask]

Okay, so one American lawyer looked into Established Titles and determined it to be a scam. ET may be illegal. It is deliberately misleading in its point of sale with tiny print and recurring charges upsells. Around 100 million USD made and around 2 USD million donated. That's a massive discrepancy in this scam. Lol. Pizda CCP.

 

[WolfBear]

As a general rule, forced conscription should be considered a form of slavery and therefore a crime against humanity. If a nation can't voluntarily motivate enough of its own citizens to serve as soldiers, it deserves to lose.

Having an authoritarian or totalitarian state win a war and conquer your country might still be worse than this.

 

[Bassoe]

Having an authoritarian or totalitarian state win a war and conquer your country might still be worse than this.

Put your money where your mouth is and abolish mandatory conscription, giving young men a choice between "fight for your country and probably die pointlessly since even united, you don't have the numbers or firepower to actually win" and "stay home and just trade one pseudo-democracy ruled by a bunch of corrupt oligarchs for another". If you're right and they accept the cost-benefit analysis, this won't change anything and you'll still have your cannon fodder. The only reason you'd be against this is if you suspected I'm right.

 

[AmosTrask]

Russian conscripts deserting en masse from a Russian base 🤣 They mobbed the MPs. Starts a 4:05

 

[Marduk]

> German peasant: I am cold, it is winter, and my natural gas heater isn't working because our government shut down the import of it from russia and then USA bombed the pipeline
> Liberal World Order: Germany is utterly packed for Russian Spies

Right... KGB assets... totally not just german peasantry who are suffering from the sanctions

The issue is that they are trying to make it sound like those are russian spies. instead of german peasants saying "stop the sanctions so I can heat my house with natural gas again"

It's not the poor peasants who use natural gas for heating, lol. It's mostly Germany's city population, oh the irony. Especially the shitlib ones who listen to the establishment whining about muh CO2. Did i mention that Germany's obsession with relying on gas specifically is mostly about their muh CO2 obsessions (it emits less than alternatives), and Germany has voted the party most obsessed about it into the governing coalition? Also the party who for decades insisted that there is nothing stupid with being highly reliant on gas specifically from Russia rather than a diversified supply chain?
Perhaps if Germany wasn't packed with Russian spies they wouldn't be taking such a suspicious pattern of decisions. After all, Germany is not a country famous for its poverty and peasantry. There are many countries poorer than Germany (as in most of EU) who are less reliant on Russian gas, somehow. And with cheaper electricity too, somehow.
What a mystery...

 

[Bassoe]

You do realize the Marxist infil of colleges and such have helped create the 'Liberal World Order' you complain about?

Glowie propagandists, it's long past time you realized that all the boomers who gave a shit about Muh Russians™ are dead or in retirement homes now. Stop trying to make red scare 2.0 happen. It's not gonna work.

 

[mrttao]

It's not the poor peasants who use natural gas for heating, lol. It's mostly Germany's city population, oh the irony.

I was using the term peasant to refer to "the poor" not to mean "literally a farmer".

Did i mention that Germany's obsession with relying on gas specifically is mostly about their muh CO2 obsessions

I am aware. and they destroyed all other sources of energy
There is an excellent video of donald trump warning them about over reliance on russian natural gas. And they literally burst into laughter. pointing and laughing at him

 

[Bacle]

Glowie propagandists, it's long past time you realized that all the boomers who gave a shit about Muh Russians™ are dead or in retirement homes now. Stop trying to make red scare 2.0 happen. It's not gonna work.

I don't need to 'try' to make Red Scare 2.0 work, Russia is doing that all on their own.

And guess what, Marxist infil of the institutions and twisting of liberal philosophy is where a lot of the woke garbage comes from.

Also, no, the Boomers who hated Russia and lived through the Cold War are very much still alive, even if their parents are dying off. Hating Russia now for what they have done, and continuing to do, doesn't need any Boomer help either, just teh ability to stomach researching and looking at what the Russians have done in Ukraine.

 

[Marduk]

I was using the term peasant to refer to "the poor" not to mean "literally a farmer".

I am aware. and they destroyed all other sources of energy
There is an excellent video of donald trump warning them about over reliance on russian natural gas. And they literally burst into laughter. pointing and laughing at him

It's so much worse than this. EVERYONE warned them. Poland warned them. Baltics warned them. UK warned them. Democrats warned them. Republicans warned them since friggin Reagan administration.
Germany didn't just laugh off Trump's warnings. They have laughed off a huge list of western leaders who said the same thing consistently over decades.

 

[Cherico]

It's so much worse than this. EVERYONE warned them. Poland warned them. Baltics warned them. UK warned them. Democrats warned them. Republicans warned them since friggin Reagan administration.
Germany didn't just laugh off Trump's warnings. They have laughed off a huge list of western leaders who said the same thing consistently over decades.

I can only have so much pity for self inflicted wound's

 

[mrttao]

I can only have so much pity for self inflicted wound's

The thing about all those so called "self inflicted wounds". Is that almost always it is the aristocracy wounding the serfs for their own gains. Doubly so in nations that outright forbid freedom of speech.

Do you think any of the billionaires and top government members of EU and germany are in any way suffering? Heck they are just getting richer.
As the lockdowns were a massive wealth transfer from the middle class to the upper class.

 

[Captain X]

OH NO! GUESS WE BETTER JUST LET RUSSIA DO WHATEVER IT WANTS!

 

[mrttao]

OH NO! GUESS WE BETTER JUST LET RUSSIA DO WHATEVER IT WANTS!

False binary.
Also I will bet money you are not one of the german poor who was relying on this gas for heating their house this winter

 

[Captain X]

False binary.

No, that is exactly the kind of mentality your arguments have had the entire time. It's always been "oh, look at this horrible thing that's going to happen because we're interfering with what Russia wants!" "Look at how horrible the Germans are going to have it because Germany dare have something to say about Russia taking over another country!" Don't try bullshitting your way out of this now.

Also I will bet money you are not one of the german poor who was relying on this gas for heating their house this winter

See? Look at this shit. You couldn't be more transparent.

OH NO! GUESS WE BETTER JUST LET RUSSIA DO WHATEVER IT WANTS!

 

[mrttao]

You know... at the very start I wanted putin to win just because those lining up to defeat him are our oppressors.
But I am really coming around to this way of doing things too.

They are defeating putin... in a way that is really undermining their regimes at home. This actually gives me some hope that there is a possibility of an ideal scenario where both putin and the woke world order both get overthrown due to their populations being disgruntled at how they handled the whole thing

 

[Captain X]

You know... at the very start I wanted putin to win just because those lining up to defeat him are our oppressors.

Speaking of false binaries...

But I am really coming around to this way of doing things too.

They are defeating putin... in a way that is really undermining their regimes at home. This actually gives me some hope that there is a possibility of an ideal scenario where both putin and the woke world order both get overthrown due to their populations being disgruntled at how they handled the whole thing

I mean, one could hope this would make your average German realize that listening to the Greens and the likes of Merkle was a mistake, and that they should have listened to Trump instead of laughing at him, but I doubt that'll happen.

 

[mrttao]

No, that is exactly the kind of mentality your arguments have had the entire time. It's always been "oh, look at this horrible thing that's going to happen because we're interfering with what Russia wants!" "Look at how horrible the Germans are going to have it because Germany dare have something to say about Russia taking over another country!" Don't try bullshitting your way out of this now.

Facepalm.
You literally made the false binary that the only alternative to cutting off gas supply to germany is putin winning.
According to you, no other sanction strategy exists.
No other form of aid could be rendered.
Even though NATO is literally lending various other forms of aid. Such as military hardware and training

See? Look at this shit. You couldn't be more transparent.

Nice deflection there. And thanks for confirming it. You are oh so very generous with spending other people's lives and livelihoods.

 

[Captain X]

Facepalm.
You literally made the false binary that the only alternative to cutting off gas supply to germany is putin winning.

No, I'm saying that you are saying that Germany should have let Russia do whatever the fuck it wanted, lest their gas supply get cut off, as has happened.

According to you, no other sanction strategy exists.
No other form of aid could be rendered.
Even though NATO is literally lending various other forms of aid. Such as military hardware and training

The fuck are you even talking about? Do you even know?

Nice deflection there. And thanks for confirming it. You are oh so very generous with spending other people's lives and livelihoods.

Do you always accuse others of what you yourself do? This entire time you've been doom-pilling on how horrible things are because anyone has dared done anything to stand in Russia's way in its conquest of Ukraine. I have no idea what you think the point of that is, or what you think you're going to accomplish with it. Kind of like trying to grasp on to this money-laundering scheme, as if that was the only point of helping Ukraine, or acting like I should no longer support helping Ukraine, or that because I care more about Ukraine being able to defend itself that I somehow support the corruption. Let me make this perfectly clear - I support Ukraine because I support that nation's right to exist. I am appalled at Russia's actions leading up to and during this invasion. I am reminded not only of WWII analogues, but of what was done to Native peoples who had their children stolen away from them and shipped off to distant schools in an effort to rob them of their language and culture. Russia is doing that same kind of shit now, and you seem to care a hell of a lot more about some Democrats being dirty with money than the atrocities being carried out by Russia in Ukraine, and within its own borders. You're doom-posting about Germans having to go cold this winter. Sucks to be them, sure, but they kind of made that bed themselves, and they were warned repeatedly for decades about it. Am I supposed to not care about what Russia is doing because of that? Exactly what point are you trying to make? Do you even have one?