Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2

[Marduk]

There are more independent voters than those registered with either party in the US these days.

And by definition they have no unified views on pretty much anything, including people from both to the left and to the right of the mainstream parties.

As well, my politics with regards to UA are mostly being represented by the Trump admin and much of the MAGA, not neocon, GOP these days.

Well i've linked you what the guy you apparently trust so much thinks of MAGA foreign policy. Damn, he's even more critical of it than i am. And there's a number of people around here that like MAGA domestic policy but aren't fans of its foreign policy bumbling.

Once again, you show you really don't understand much of the US domestic scene.

I'm not the therapist of US domestic scene, even though sometimes i get the impression you are looking for exactly that in those political discussion. I'm not paid to give it understanding, i'm a harsh outside observer, and i say what i see. If they are doing something retarded, i will call it that, rather than dig for excuses and justifications for it in the name of "understanding".

But as i said many times to many people here, this war doesn't revolve around USA, and especially so, not around US domestic politics. In the end, it's between Ukraine and Russia. The rest only matter as much as they are willing to put up on the table.

 

[Bacle]

And by definition they have no unified views on pretty much anything, including people from both to the left and to the right of the mainstream parties.

Well i've linked you what the guy you apparently trust so much thinks of MAGA foreign policy. Damn, he's even more critical of it than i am. And there's a number of people around here that like MAGA domestic policy but aren't fans of its foreign policy bumbling.

I'm not the therapist of US domestic scene, even though sometimes i get the impression you are looking for exactly that in those political discussion. I'm not paid to give it understanding, i'm a harsh outside observer, and i say what i see. If they are doing something retarded, i will call it that, rather than dig for excuses and justifications for it in the name of "understanding".

But as i said many times to many people here, this war doesn't revolve around USA, and especially so, not around US domestic politics. In the end, it's between Ukraine and Russia. The rest only matter as much as they are willing to put up on the table.

My god, you think asking you to understand US domestic issues is asking for a 'therapist'; this is just so stupid.

It's asking you to understand context of US domestic policy, and how it shapes US foreign policy, but you cannot stop trying to be a condescending, arrogant prick who typifies the type of Euro who has driven so much of the GOP and parts of the middle into just not caring about what Europeans want or think.

 

[Zachowon]

My god, you think asking you to understand US domestic issues is asking for a 'therapist'; this is just so stupid.

It's asking you to understand context of US domestic policy, and how it shapes US foreign policy, but you cannot stop trying to be a condescending, arrogant prick who typifies the type of Euro who has driven so much of the GOP and parts of the middle into just not caring about what Europeans want or think.

The thing is, what marduk is saying is correct.
No matter what US domestic policy is, no matter how much peace the US wants to happen or how much they want the war to stop or even stop sending aid.
NO MATTER WHAT WE DO, the war won't end.
It won't end until one compitulates and Ukraine sure as hell won't let it be them.
They will fight with or without our aid. They will make Russia bleed more then we EVER could with sanctions.

Sadly as long as our greatest adversary supports Russia, Ukraine can only halt Domestic Russian production to hamstring them enough.

Our foreign policy is focused on China yet we are willingly letting them get better training and see how useful thier shit is against ours, see how to combat our stuff.
Why should we not support Ukraine to get the same kind of training.

This conflict is the point of which the next conflict will arise should Russia win.

 

[Bacle]

The thing is, what marduk is saying is correct.
No matter what US domestic policy is, no matter how much peace the US wants to happen or how much they want the war to stop or even stop sending aid.
NO MATTER WHAT WE DO, the war won't end.
It won't end until one compitulates and Ukraine sure as hell won't let it be them.
They will fight with or without our aid. They will make Russia bleed more then we EVER could with sanctions.

Sadly as long as our greatest adversary supports Russia, Ukraine can only halt Domestic Russian production to hamstring them enough.

Our foreign policy is focused on China yet we are willingly letting them get better training and see how useful thier shit is against ours, see how to combat our stuff.
Why should we not support Ukraine to get the same kind of training.

This conflict is the point of which the next conflict will arise should Russia win.

Ukraine is in a situation where, quite bluntly, I expect the fighting will end one of two ways.

1) Putin is killed/dies, and his replacement isn't as gung-ho about the conflict and decides to either freeze the lines with a Korean DMZ, or pulls back to just Donetsk, Lugansk, and Crimea, establishing a pre-2022 status quo in terms of territorial control.

2) Zelensky is replaced internally, without an an election and likely by dissatisfied or desparate factions in UA's parliment/congress/rada, and the replacement accepts worse terms in exchange for keeping a viable UA nation state with the mineral deal with the US.

This war may drag on like the Iran/Iraq war, with not much gained for either side, lots of losses and diminished domestic situations, and the lines not moving that far from the start. Or this could end up a modern 30 Years War, and drag on for decades.

We can sell UA arms, train some of their troops for our gear, and provide some intel, but at the end of the day Trump and it seems like most of the West are not going to be entering the fight directly, short of Putin lobbing a nuke or breaching a NPP's containment structure.

Sucks to be Ukraine in that situation, but they are a nation cursed by geography and geology, and not much can change either of those aspects.

 

[Marduk]

My god, you think asking you to understand US domestic issues is asking for a 'therapist'; this is just so stupid.

Yes, because the sort of understanding you are asking for is nothing less than uncritical affirmation of your own faction's political preferences and anyone who says that faction's views are stupid or wrong is "not understanding US domestic issues".

It's asking you to understand context of US domestic policy, and how it shapes US foreign policy, but you cannot stop trying to be a condescending, arrogant prick who typifies the type of Euro who has driven so much of the GOP and parts of the middle into just not caring about what Europeans want or think.

Nah, the existence of leftards and isolationist dullards has little to do with anything any non-Russian speaking Euros ever did.
No, i will not tell you that your foreign or domestic political views are great. Yes, i do know the context of sociopolitical movements in USA and how certain views (generally related to second degree fallout of Vietnam and GWOT era psyops against USA) i'm very critical of were spread further by those movements over decades to a point of becoming fixtures of some parts of culture, but that's completely separate from judging whether those are reasonable or not and whether decisions based on them are good (as a rule of thumb what US enemies told its population is probably not very good for them), and you for one are very much letting your own political preferences color that judgement.

 

[Zachowon]

This isn't a gotcha or anything just updating you on somethings.
It seems like we are going to cut aid funding to Ukraine, so little to no more aid.
Add in the two weeks are up.
Let's see what the admin does.

 

[Zachowon]

 

[Zachowon]

 

[AnimalNoodles]

ride the bull, you get the horns

 

[Zachowon]

@Bacle No gotcha or anything but honestly what's your take?
I agree that US citizens SHOUKD deter Russia, but it seems like they won't.
What options would you present in this case for retaliation?