The Sietch runs a U.S. Constitutional Convention!

Free-Stater 101

Freedom Means Freedom!!!
Nuke Mod
Moderator
Staff Member
Okay everyone, It's time! For some unknown reason be it by act of ROB or the people being tired of all in general have decided the U.S. as they know it should be dead and everything should just be thrown out and remade, the question I posse to you all is that in the event of such an unlikely event what would be the best way to go about restructuring the U.S. to fit current challenges while still upholding the spirit of everything we have always stived to stand for?
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
1. Clarify 14th Amendment: remove natural born citizen's EXCEPT when both parents are US Citizens.
2. Repeal the 16th Amendment: Income Taxation
3. Repeal the 17th Amendment: General Election of Senators
4. Balanced Budget Amendment: Congress MUST pass a budget and said budget may NOT deficit spend EXCEPT under a DECLARATION OF WAR. If Congress fails to pass a budget EVERY member of Congress is removed from their seat, new elections are held, and NONE of the present members of Congress may run for re-election at that time.
5. Repeal all Federal Tax laws; replace with the FAIR TAX. (Consumption tax w/a floor so the poor still get to remain tax exempt to a point.) I can explain more if needed.
6. Immediate removal of regulatory power from every federal agency. Since regulation holds the force of law, any and all regulations must be passed in Congress before taking affect.
7. Remove ANY & ALL crimes at the Federal level which are duplicated at the State level.
8. Remove many federal agencies (IRS, ATF, Homeland Security, Department of Education, probably some more)
9. Term limits for Congress critters with a complete ban on lobbying or working with companies that contract with the federal government.
10. So electoral votes for the District of Columbia.
11. No federal agency will be headquartered in D.C.
12. No retirement benefits for any elected member of the federal government; all officials will be required to cease any and all activity in the stock market. No gifts may be accepted in any way for all members of the government. If gifts are given, they will immediately be sold (as soon as possible) with all proceeds being placed against the Federal Debt. (This means they can't even accept a free lunch, cab fare, or back rub.)
13. All elected officials will be given NCO quarters billeting in the nearest military base to their office. Access to the dining facility there will be provided. Remove all ammenities from govt. facilities. Access to base gyms will be available.

That's my start...I might have more.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
I'm not from the USA, and the current US Constitution is a pretty great one, actually, as these things go. Generally speaking, just strive to replicate its overal approach. But here's some general advice that I'd give to anyone writing a constitution:


1. Define your union as a voluntary one, and explicitly recognise the right to secede from that union. Outline the process for doing so in a legal and peaceful manner. (This requires, at the very least, a pleibiscite; and the right of contiguous areas that oppose secession to countersecede and thus stay with the union when the rest of their state opts to depart.)

2. Strengthen the right to bear arms by altering the phrasing into something like "Neither the federal government nor any government of or within the several states shall infringe in any way upon the right of citizens to bear arms. No law shall be made that restricts, hinders or regulates the right of citizens to own and bear arms in any way whatever."

3. Include a provision that orders the federal, state and local governments to have a balanced budget at all times.

4. Include tight restrictions on public debt. Decree a (modest) percentage of the year before last's GDP to be the upper limit of public debt. Ensure that the government can only go into debt in the case of an acute crisis that existentially threatens the country-- and even then only with a two-thirds supermajority in both houses. Public debt may only be incurred for a fixed number of years out of a given larger number of years (for instance: the government may only incur debt for any five years out of 50, and may not borrow money under any circumstance during the other 45). All debt must be fully paid off within 20 years (no long-term debt, ever; the generation that incurs the debt must also pay it off).

5. Restrict all bills to a single topic that must be accurately described in the title. Also restrict all bills to a maximum word-length. Oh, and make sure there's a line-item veto, so stupid provision can be nixed while the rest of the bill gets adopted.

6. All legislation gets a horizon clause of 20 years, after which it is automatically voided unless explicitly renewed by both houses of Congress. Ensure that there can be no "shortcuts", or "automated renewals". There must be a full vote on every extension. If this is not done, the law is voided thenceforth. Any law that is voided may not be re-introduced for at least five years thereafter, nor may a law effectively containing the same (or suspiciously similar) provisions be introduced.

7. Keep the "neccesary and proper" clause (or similar 'sweeping' phrases) out of the new Constitution. Bolster the principle of subsidiarity by far more explicitly limiting the federal government to certain well-defined core tasks. Everything else is to be handled exclusively by state or local governments. (This will result in the complete abolition of most federal departments and agencies.)

8. Explicitly abolish and forbid the existence of all Federal policing organisations (such as the FBI), with the sole exception of the US Marshals.

9. Stipulate that agencies of the government (at any level) cannot ever have regulatory authority of any kind. All regulations must be adopted through the responsible legislature before they can come into effect.

10. Have the Senate elected by the state legislatures again.

11. Severely limit intellectual property claims. No more "Disney extensions" or bullshit like that. And all non-profit use is automatically fair use and may not be infringed upon in any way whatever. (Disney will never again be able to sue kindergartens for painting Mickey Mouse on the wall.)

12. Severely limit eminent domain. The government should never be able to take your property "just because". The use of eminent domain must be based on clear and undeniable importance to the affected community, and the state must prove in court (before a popular jury, not some judge) that there is no other way. In any case, the valued of the seized property must be appraised independently, and the government must pay at least twice the appraised value. (And that sum multiplies over and over, the longer the property has been in the owner's family.)

13. Generally ensure that not only the federal government, but also state and local governments and any organisation that receives any public funding is to be bound by the Bill of Rights. (Which means, for instance, the universities cannot ever again limit free speech on their campus in any way.)

14. Strictly define citizenship to be based on ius sanguinis, and never on ius soli.


-----------------------


And some more drastic proposals that I'd also like to put forth, but which I know a lot of people opppose (for some reason or another):


1. Instead of merely limiting public debt, intellectual property and eminent domain (as outlined in points 4, 8 and 9 of my original list), abolish all three completely. Ban public debt for the federal government and for state and local governments. Determine that property rights can only apply to the physical universe, never to the immaterial realm of ideas. And forbid the government from ever unilaterally seizing someone's property. (The ban on public debt also renders most of the provision mandating a balanced budget to be moot.)

2. Limit taxes to tariffs and one direct tax. The tariffs must be based on reciprocity. (If another country lowers or abolishes theirs, you also lower or abolish yours, correspondingly. If they introduce or increase tariffs, you do the same to them.) The direct tax levied upon the citizenry can take any given form (e.g. property tax or income tax), but key is that there can only ever be one tax, and that the citizens must actively transfer the money to the government. It must not be 'kept back' on their pay-ckeck or something. (Why? So that they feel the pain of having to pay far more directly. This demonstrably increases support for keeping taxes low!)

3. The revenue of the direct tax is constitutionally apportioned. So x% goes to the local government, y% goes to the state government, and z% goes to the federal government. (I propose something like 60% local, 30% state, and 10% federal. This, again, works towards subsidiarity and "most things being done locally"... as they should.) But regardless, for each of these allotments, the taxpayer should be able to earmark his own money. That is: he should be free to specify "all of my federal stipend goes to the army, and to nothing else". This is all tallied up when the taxes are paid, and that determines the government budget(s) for the next fiscal year. Governments may not deviate from the instructions the taxpayers give them. (Allowing the taxpayers to effectively form the budget automatically means that the resulting budget is equivalent to the tax revenue; a balanced budget amemendment is now entirely moot.)

4. The direct tax must be explicitly barred from having any loopholes, exceptions, or complexities of any kind. It must be a simple, flat percentage without any further complications whatever.

5. Only those who pay the tax are eligible to vote (or to be elected). Discard any amendment that prohibits this. It is of the utmost importance. No taxation without representation... and no representation without taxation. You don't pay, you don't vote. This prevents a purely parasitical class from having any say in how the country is run.

6. There must be a constitutionally mandated gold standard for the currency, and a universal ban on government-issued fiduciary currency.

7. Add an article that bans the export of gold under all circumstances, and which allows the federal government to determine materials, substances and technologies of vital strategic importance that may not be (freely) exported.

8. Add an article explicitly stating that any action that has no concrete, identifiable victim (other than "yourself") cannot ever be criminalised (at any level of government).

9. Add an article banning the concept of fines paid to the government. If any fines exist, they must be paid out to the victim. (As per the above, acts that have no victim cannot be criminalised anyway.) Under no circumstance should the government financially profit from punishing someone-- that's a perverse incentive.



...I'm sure there's more to be said, but this would be the core of my advice to anyone drafting a new constitution. It's all aimed at thoroughly restraining the power of government, creating a stable economy without "ponzi scheme policies", and forging a "stake-holder republic" where power is held by those who do all the work and pay all the bills.
 

Buba

A total creep
the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. this means shall not be infringed. not any fucking bullshit loophole you can think of.

I know we already have it but for some reason people can't read.
The blah-blah about militia could be axed ...

My transatlantic suggestions (I will skip some my favs as these already had been mentioned):
1 - three senators per state, three term limit
2 - nine Supreme Court Justices, a single 25-30 year term
4 - four year terms for US Representatives, three term limit
5 - House of Representatives set at 600 Reps
6 - Electoral College - winner of state popular vote gets all the senatorial electors, remaining electors are linked to US Rep districts
7 - US Rep districts must be compact
 

ATP

Well-known member
The blah-blah about militia could be axed ...

My transatlantic suggestions (I will skip some my favs as these already had been mentioned):
1 - three senators per state, three term limit
2 - nine Supreme Court Justices, a single 25-30 year term
4 - four year terms for US Representatives, three term limit
5 - House of Representatives set at 600 Reps
6 - Electoral College - winner of state popular vote gets all the senatorial electors, remaining electors are linked to US Rep districts
7 - US Rep districts must be compact
All of that,and fuck Fed and come back to silver dollar.
People from Wall Street or their relatives could not be elected to do anything,even catching stray dogs.
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
I'd like to propose the First Amendment has a gaping loophole in it, in that the goverment might not be allowed to censor people, but everyone else can. Fix that by making common carrier universal for the internet and printing companies, if you can pay to have it hosted, they legally can't restrict your content. While you're at it, give the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) speech as a sixth wrongful terminator clause.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
It would probably be worthwhile to have a better definition of Treason. The constitution's definition is particularly tortured since, by any reasonable standard, the founding fathers were committing treason against the Crown and didn't really want to be hoisted on that particular petard.
 

Typhonis

Well-known member
Clarify that the right to bear arms is so that you can protect yourself, your family, and your property.

Declare that you have the right to own land and it shall not be infringed upon nor taken away from you without due process.

Define what are Federal level crimes and what are state and local crimes and ensure they do not overlap.

The FBI is an investigative agency. To arrest someone they need to present the evidence to the US Marshals. Who will then take them into custody.
 

bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer
Super Moderator
Staff Member
This thread is very relevant to this discussion: United States - US Constitutional Amendment Proposals and Discussion Thread

Anyway, what I'd recommend:
  • Repeal direct election of Senators to give state governments a counterweight to the short-term centric mindset of the House.
  • Legislative veto on executive branch actions, requiring 3/5 of both houses.
  • All laws and executive orders sunset by default - basically, every law or executive order expires 10 years from the date of signing into law, by default. This will apply retroactively to all existing laws and executive orders as well. Keeping a law on the books will require 2/3 votes from each house of Congress and a presidential signature.
  • Make it easier for states to call a Constitutional convention and amend the Constitution that way. Absolutely necessary if no one is going to make it easier to amend the Constitution via Congress.*
  • A person can only serve in the Federal government, in any capacity above lower management, for a total of 25 years.
  • All citizens have the right to repair and maintain their possessions, as well as the right to access any and all required information and resources required to accomplish those ends.
  • Allow state governments and the citizens of the states to recall their Congress critters if they fuck up/don't do what they're elected to do.
  • Define non-government organizations (businesses, charities, etc...) in such a way that they have restricted rights/privileges, especially when it comes to donating to political candidates, but must respect the rights of the citizens.
  • Impeachment reform - requires 3/5 of the House to authorize, 3/5 of Senate to confirm, make it apply to all Federal employees, widen the criteria a little, permanent ban from Federal positions if it succeeds. If it fails due to lack of evidence, automatic impeachment proceedings against whoever called for the original impeachment hearing.
  • Some kind of copyright amendment that restricts the length of a copyright to 50 years max (applying retroactively), requires companies to carry the burden of proof in copyright infringement cases, stuff like that.
  • Politician stock trading ban.

*Some ideas for that here:
If I had to spitball, it'd probably be something like this:
  • Constitutional convention called by 3/5 of state legislatures.
  • Language of proposed amendments has to be approved by representatives of 3/5 of the states.
  • Referendum to have the population vote on the proposed amendments. If 2/3 of the voters in a state approve of the amendment, that counts for 1 approval. If 3/5 of the states approve, the amendment is ratified.
  • If no amendments are approved, there is a second drafting session and voting process. If no amendments are approved after that, there is a two year cooldown period before any subsequent attempt to amend the Constitution.
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Don't fix what isn't broke.

Savagely enforce it this time.

Err... wouldn't that require an extra provision (or two) spelling out penalties for attempting to pass unconstitutional laws?

To my knowledge, the Constitution as it exists now has none. Granted, I wonder if you could argue that it technically falls under the umbrella of treason — which, me being no lawyer or legal scholar, I could certainly be off-base about. Nonetheless, you'd have something much more "ironclad" if you at least wrote in explicit (and highly stringent) penalties for violating or failing to uphold the Constitution in the spirit in which it was written, which our current batch of politicians repeatedly gets away with.
 

bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Don't fix what isn't broke.
The problem is that the government is broken, mostly because of bad attempts to update it (17th amendment) and lack of updates in the areas that actually matter (holding politicians accountable).

Updating the operating guide for the government to make the people in it do their job better and have more methods of kicking them out if they fuck up is will at least add some deterrent and friction in the system to slow down bad ideas/bad actors.
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
You know, given modern audiences’ inability to understand 18th-century parlance, I wonder if we should publish rewritings of the amendments worded in 21st-century English to make their message crystal clear to everyone?

Because I once came across a Secular Talk video where he smugly proclaims the 2nd Amendment only enumerates the militia’s right to bear arms after giving the words themselves a read. Rather than, you know, considering how much different the language was back then — much less reading up on the Founders and their other writings to form a more “proper” understanding of what they really meant. Admittedly, calling Kyle Kulinski out is picking low-hanging fruit, though I’m more than sure most Lefties read it that way and misconstrue the 2nd’s meaning in whatever ways they can.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
A quick addition that occurred to me because of the current situation in my own country:

In the period between election day for members of a representative body and the installation of the new members, no legislation may be passed. This automatically prevents a party that has been voted out from passing last-ditch "fuck you" legislation with their temporarily remaining "ghost majority".

(D66, the arrogant progressive liberal party in the Netherlands, is currently pushing for just that-- having been electorally decimated in March, but retaining their current number of seats in the Senate until the new Senate is installed at the close of this month.)
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
Simplicius The Thinker had some pretty viable ideas on their substack.
 

Doomsought

Well-known member
1) No enumerated right shall be abridged, except upon sentencing following a trial; nor shall any abridgement be lawful except for those documented during sentencing at that time.

2) The people have a general right to self defense, and also, the people have a categorical and irrevocable right to defend their life, homestead, and children, even against the enforcement of law.

3) No jurisdiction of government shall employ more that 5% of it constituency, except for the military which shall not be included in either count. If any jurisdiction of government exceeds this number, it shall be unlawful for that government to collect tax money for each and every tax period in which it is in excess, and it shall owe refund with interest for any taxes collected during the same period.

4) The legislature has a duty to ensure read all bills in full prior to a vote. Any member of the legislature who votes on a bill without reviewing it in full shall be fined one month's income per page of the bill.

5) No person shall pay more than 20% of their income into taxes, with the most local government taking first.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top