Transgender Rights

[Arch Dornan]

Yes, that was unfortunate. Especially considering vocal surgery has been known for decades to be unnecessary and extremely risky; training alone produces a normal female voice if rigorously followed, however, until recently the science was not understood so it was word of mouth in the community without professionals teaching it. Unscrupulous doctors took advantage of this to offer surgeries that frequently caused vocal chord damage and produced worse quality than training alone.

That's a topic I'm getting rather suspicious of.

As you mentioned unscrupulous doctors, I'm beginning to think the sex change hoolaboo is a scheme to prey on the naive for money and akin to a pyramid scheme ensare more to promote the damaging practice of any physical surgeries despite the noticeable damage done to the human body.

Chemical hormonal treatments I'm unsure of but the kid called Desmond I don't think will turn out ok taking it at such an early age.

At the heart of it, this is all from the term called body dysphoria?

 

[Deleted member]

That's a topic I'm getting rather suspicious of.

As you mentioned unscrupulous doctors, I'm beginning to think the sex change hoolaboo is a scheme to prey on the naive for money and akin to a pyramid scheme ensare more to promote the damaging practice of any physical surgeries despite the noticeable damage done to the human body.

Chemical hormonal treatments I'm unsure of but the kid called Desmond I don't think will turn out ok taking it at such an early age.

At the heart of it, this is all from the term called body dysphoria?

No, it’s not body dysphoria, because sex is inclusive of more than just the body. You’re also wrong about the general trend of the practice. Serious, extremely professional doctors exist for SRS and FFS who can produce results which, in the former case, can easily make it possible for a postoperative transsexual woman to pass during a gynecological exam.

I have heard a lot of claims from other conservatives, particularly in your generation, who watch a lot of podcasts which tend to follow along with the leftist conflation of transsexuals and transgenders but invert the relationship to condemn both. These include claims about the quality of surgery (permanently open wounds, stitch marks, permanent dialation, etc). These are not founded on a very serious look. Indeed, the stereotypical so-called penile inversion surgery is one of only three major techniques being used, and one of the techniques doesn’t even require dialation at all (though it has some side effects and very difficult recovery) while the third technique provides natural lubrication and full congruence of secondary anatomical features and allows for as little as ten to fifteen minutes of dialation per 14-15 days. Serious effort went into the development of all three techniques however and the best surgeons in all three produce comparable results.

Now, are there 3,000 dollar surgery theatres in tijuana that produce horrifying results? Sure, but you can also have your cancer treated with paint-on skin acid which gives you third degree burns and doesn’t cure your cancer. That doesn’t mean oncology is also an invalid field.

The reality is that the problems are caused by a failure to rigorously enforce standards of differential diagnosis to make sure that transition care is provided only to those who actually need it. Almost a hundred and twenty years of medical research into transsexuality was thrown out the window by the transgenderist movement so they could be the revolutionary vanguard of a cultural marxist effort to tear down sex differentiations in society, and they did so while treating transsexuals who want to transition and live in peace as an enemy to be broken and fried up on the alter of their deviant politics. Transsexuality itself is inherently conservative as any Ayatollah in Iran can tell you; it upholds inherent sex distinctions by aligning—for whatever reason causes them—incurable behavioral characteristics of individuals with the correct secondary sexual characteristics to allow them to function normally in a conservative society.

 

[Arch Dornan]

No, it’s not body dysphoria, because sex is inclusive of more than just the body. You’re also wrong about the general trend of the practice. Serious, extremely professional doctors exist for SRS and FFS who can produce results which, in the former case, can easily make it possible for a postoperative transsexual woman to pass during a gynecological exam.

I have heard a lot of claims from other conservatives, particularly in your generation, who watch a lot of podcasts which tend to follow along with the leftist conflation of transsexuals and transgenders but invert the relationship to condemn both. These include claims about the quality of surgery (permanently open wounds, stitch marks, permanent dialation, etc). These are not founded on a very serious look. Indeed, the stereotypical so-called penile inversion surgery is one of only three major techniques being used, and one of the techniques doesn’t even require dialation at all (though it has some side effects and very difficult recovery) while the third technique provides natural lubrication and full congruence of secondary anatomical features and allows for as little as ten to fifteen minutes of dialation per 14-15 days. Serious effort went into the development of all three techniques however and the best surgeons in all three produce comparable results.

Now, are there 3,000 dollar surgery theatres in tijuana that produce horrifying results? Sure, but you can also have your cancer treated with paint-on skin acid which gives you third degree burns and doesn’t cure your cancer. That doesn’t mean oncology is also an invalid field.

The reality is that the problems are causes by a fairly to rigorously enforce standards of differential diagnosis to make sure that transition care is provided only to those who actually need it. Almost a hundred and twenty years of medical research into transsexuality was thrown out the window by the transgenderist movement so they could be the revolutionary vanguard of a cultural marxist effort to tear down sex differentiations in society, and they did so while treating transsexuals who want to transition and live in peace as an enemy to be broken and fried up on the alter of their deviant politics. Transsexuality itself is inherently conservative as any Ayatollah in Iran can tell you; it upholds inherent sex distinctions by aligning—for whatever reason causes them—incurable behavioral characteristics of individuals with the correct secondary sexual characteristics to allow them to function normally in a conservative society.

With how the internet functions, we'll be getting to see more hearsay and activities of our generation of transgenders or transexuals to color the thoughts of the next generation. Poor Remilia didn't make it with the choices chosen and so sticks out like a sore thumb on the dark side of getting a transition to a viewer with only basic knowledge of trans people.

I can agree with the reality of the problem. It's what it comes down to and treatments have a chance of backfiring especially as you said standards of differential diagnosis to people who actually need it since unscrupulous doctors are the reason for why there's a drug addiction from unnecessary prescriptions.

 

[Arch Dornan]

The transgenderist movement of the revolutionary vanguard of cultural marxists you talk of.

They the kind who'd stifle the transgender people in their ranks who bring up doubts and hesitations in their lives after post treatment?

 

[Lanmandragon]

@Marduk , I am basically anti-psychiatry but acknowledge it’s probably better than nothing in our deranged modern society. Strictly I would say people who don’t fit in deserve society to have rules for them to live as part of society, but those rules don’t necessarily provide them payouts or special privileges.

Essentially, if someone is, to me, spiritually called to walk this road, the path should be provided, but we’re not necessarily under an obligation to make it easy. Premodern societies usually had traditional roles for transsexuals, like Hijra and Kathoey.

A society has an obligation to develop exceptions to its rules for those who don’t fit in, but those exceptions have the right to create pressure to behave according to the default. That is the “standard” among traditional societies, and it worked.

I am absolutely opposed to clinicalising this or any other behavioural issue. Even Foucault could recognise where that went as an evil. Treating human minds as a potential pathology is a vile development of modern liberalism and it has and is being used to torture opponents to left-wing regimes. Today transsexualism is a mental illness, tomorrow conservativism is.

Refuse to play the progressive game. Don’t rely on science to adjudicate the human spirit. They will use pathologisation to come for you. They are already talking about conservativism being a mental illness, with increasing seriousness.

What I believe on the other hand is timeless, and is merely the distilled essence of what every reasoned person knew to be true before the French Revolution.

Were thier traditional roles in Western Civilization?

 

[Deleted member]

Were thier traditional roles in Western Civilization?

The Gallae in ancient Rome and Hellenistic Greece and the Femminielli in medieval-modern Naples are both examples, and the Norse had seidh practitioners who were sometimes tolerated, essentially farseers who, in the social understanding, had traded their manhood to Odin for the power of foresight and become as women as a consequence, or to quote from Loki's taunt:

But thou in Samsey wast performing seidh
And beating out (spells) like a Völva,
Vitki-like didst pass through the world of men,
In woman’s wise, I believe.

They were called seidhberendur with berendur being an obscene term for female genitalia in Old Norse.

So, yes, even in the West, there is a cultural tradition.

 

[Lanmandragon]

The Gallae in ancient Rome and Hellenistic Greece and the Femminielli in medieval-modern Naples are both examples, and the Norse had seidh practitioners who were sometimes tolerated, essentially farseers who, in the social understanding, had traded their manhood to Odin for the power of foresight and become as women as a consequence, or to quote from Loki's taunt:

But thou in Samsey wast performing seidh
And beating out (spells) like a Völva,
Vitki-like didst pass through the world of men,
In woman’s wise, I believe.

They were called seidhberendur with berendur being an obscene term for female genitalia in Old Norse.

So, yes, even in the West, there is a cultural tradition.

I assumed there likley was. I asked because that knowledge seems to be your wheelhouse.

 

[Cherico]

Im not going to claim to understand all of that what I do with subcultures is this.

Can said subculture peacefully coexist with others?

The transcomunity passes this test. That's enough for me.

 

[Terthna]

I try not to be a single-issue voter, but since I'm a transgender girl, that's pretty much the biggest single issue for me. I had a certain degree of hope regarding Trump in this regard because of his inclusive decisions regarding transgender women participating in the Miss America pageant, but pretty much all of his administration's decisions on transgender issues have gone against. I suspect this is mostly Mike Pence's influence, but it's a consistent trend which establishes that Trump *at least* doesn't care enough to rein Pence in.

Edit: That said, this kinda diverges from the subject of the thread?

It does, so let's move it to this one. Which decisions specifically, that Trump's administration has made on the issue of transgenderism, do you take issue with?

 

[ATP]

Leave it to parents.They wanted teach their sons to behave like sons ? good.They wanted them behaving like girls ? also good,as long as they do not castrate them.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

also good,as long as they do not castrate them.

If they really want to look like females, there’s such a thing as crossdressing....some do it better than others

 

[Abhorsen]

It does, so let's move it to this one. Which decisions specifically, that Trump's administration has made on the issue of transgenderism, do you take issue with?

Honestly, his admin hasn't been good on this.

There's the Trans Military 'ban' (yes I know it's not actually like that, but still sounds bad)
Various rollbacks on transgender bathroom rights
prior to Bostock, not including trans (or gay) in sex discrimination for purpose of many discrimination laws.

So not great from the perspective of a trans person.

 

[Doomsought]

So not great from the perspective of a trans person.

I don't care. The legitimacy of thier claims is trivial to disprove from first principles. They are insane and should receive psychiatric care with the intent to cure rather than plastic surgery to encourage their beliefs.

 

[Chaos Marine]

Honestly, his admin hasn't been good on this.

There's the Trans Military 'ban' (yes I know it's not actually like that, but still sounds bad)
Various rollbacks on transgender bathroom rights
prior to Bostock, not including trans (or gay) in sex discrimination for purpose of many discrimination laws.

So not great from the perspective of a trans person.

But the military ban is good though? Trans people tend towards psychological issues far above the norm (abnormally high attempted suicide/successful suicide rates being the most severe) which would bar many normal people (and I mean normal as in the majority of people, trans are a statistically insignificant percentage of the population of any country) from joining the military.



Here is a literal trans woman going into details about how, financially, why it's bad. At the eleven minute she goes into the costs of it.

Next, I'm sorry but there are a lot of trans people out there who are not their preferred sex from the belief that gender is a social construct and that if you feel or want to identify as a woman, then you are a woman or they simply can't afford the cost of transitioning. I don't think that trans people, at least those who haven't surgically transitioned should be allowed into the toilets for the sex that they want to identify as. At best, perhaps a third restroom should be created for them. There are already news articles coming out where transgender people have assaulted people in bathrooms. The following are only from the first page of a search on DuckDuckGo.

Front Page Featured | MRCTV

www.cnsnews.com

Man Allegedly Assaults Woman in Walmart Bathroom, Pretends He's a Transgender Woman

www.redstate.com

Transgender Wyoming woman convicted of sexually assaulting 10-year-old girl in bathroom

A transgender Wyoming woman was convicted Thursday of sexually assaulting a 10-year-old girl inside a bathroom.

www.foxnews.com

Transgender woman arrested accused of sexually assaulting teen in Walmart bathroom

31-year-old Sean Ojeda, who is currently transitioning to a woman, was arrested last week for allegedly assaulting a teen inside a Walmart bathroom.

www.kxii.com

5 Times ‘Transgender’ Men Abused Women And Children In Bathrooms | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

 

[Abhorsen]

I don't care. The legitimacy of thier claims is trivial to disprove from first principles. They are insane and should receive psychiatric care with the intent to cure rather than plastic surgery to encourage their beliefs.

That's objectively not true. For just one example, brainscans have found actual differences between trans people and cis people of the same sex. Yes, currently there are problems with trans trenders, but that's a very new problem. Meanwhile, trans people have existed throughout history. So please, if it's so easy to disprove from first principles, disprove it then. Mostly, I think you come to this conclusion because you are an actual homophobic asshole, not out of any actual thought put into this.

Source for being a homophobic asshole, I'm not just calling him one because he disagrees with me, and this does not apply to other people who disagree with me in this thread:

I want the faggots back in the closet

Second, why the hell should anyone have a say over what another person does with their own body? If someone wants to alter their body, that is their choice.

But the military ban is good though? Trans people tend towards psychological issues far above the norm (abnormally high attempted suicide/successful suicide rates being the most severe) which would bar many normal people (and I mean normal as in the majority of people, trans are a statistically insignificant percentage of the population of any country) from joining the military.

For the record, I'm not taking a position on whether these things are good or bad, just that they are things that trans people probably wouldn't like, and given that a trans poster is not voting for Trump based on these things (and also Trump's shit record on gun rights), that makes sense if one is voting in their own self interest.

 

[Chaos Marine]

*Snip*
For the record, I'm not taking a position on whether these things are good or bad, just that they are things that trans people probably wouldn't like, and given that a trans poster is not voting for Trump based on these things (and also Trump's shit record on gun rights), that makes sense if one is voting in their own self interest.

I don't really care if it's something they don't like. I don't like that all the best kinds of food are incredibly unhealthy. I don't like that the lock down has prevented me from seeing my family for the entire year. Unfortunately there's stuff outside of my control that affects my life and I have to deal with it. The difference between trans activists and the people who go along with their garbage opinions is that they don't accept that the world is unfair. That things don't always go their way. It's a staple of life that everyone experiences things that suck for them personally.

 

[Abhorsen]

I don't really care if it's something they don't like. I don't like that all the best kinds of food are incredibly unhealthy. I don't like that the lock down has prevented me from seeing my family for the entire year. Unfortunately there's stuff outside of my control that affects my life and I have to deal with it. The difference between trans activists and the people who go along with their garbage opinions is that they don't accept that the world is unfair. That things don't always go their way. It's a staple of life that everyone experiences things that suck for them personally.

I mean, but that's why they are voting against it. One shouldn't just blindly accept things being bad if they are preventable. Now I disagree that some of the things are bad, but if you don't, voting against them is a pretty good idea. It's the same reason I don't vote for the left.

 

[Doomsought]

For just one example, brainscans have found actual differences between trans people and cis people of the same sex

That doesn't prove what you think it does. Do to how the brain works as a computational medium, its structure and software are equivalent. Any sort of mentall illness, behavior, or skill will have an effect on the brain structure if you look hard enough. Playing video games, for example, effects the growth of the hippocampus.

It just points in the direction of the cause of the problem, not negate that it is a problem. For a majority of cases, the status of transsexual is temporary and resolved in the final stages of puberty. This is consistent with disturbances in the brain structure, as sex hormones change those.

Source for being a homophobic asshole, I'm not just calling him one because he disagrees with me, and this does not apply to other people who disagree with me in this thread:

Homosexuality is just sexual fetish. You are just a pervert. It is not important, and you should keep your sexual deviancy out of public like everyone else. Telling a stranger that you are gay is no different than telling a stranger you have a BDSM fetish. It is disgusting exhibitionism.

 

[Abhorsen]

It just points in the direction of the cause of the problem, not negate that it is a problem. For a majority of cases, the status of transsexual is temporary and resolved in the final stages of puberty. This is consistent with disturbances in the brain structure, as sex hormones change those.

And? For the people who aren't resolved, why shouldn't they transition? It's their body, they're adults, etc. And still waiting for that first principle argument, except from the looks of it:

Homosexuality is just sexual fetish. You are just a pervert. It is not important, and you should keep your sexual deviancy out of public like everyone else. Telling a stranger that you are gay is no different than telling a stranger you have a BDSM fetish. It is disgusting exhibitionism.

The stupidity is almost enough to overwhelm the homophobia in reasons to dislike you. So I'm not really expecting much of an argument from you. Honestly, there was apparently no need for me to cite a source, as you are quite willing to keep providing evidence. In contrast, you are quite shit at providing evidence that therapy works on trans people. It's not therapy if they just age out of it.

 

[Doomsought]

It's their body, they're adults, etc.

But they are not adults. Trans activists and lobbies demand plastic surgery for children and teenagers.