Warhammer Warhammer General discussion thread: Now with 100% more Space Marines

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
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"I'll deliberately allow a massive civil war to start between my sons, a war that the traitorous ones start out with a significant advantage in and retain throughout most of the war, with the planned outcome to be that I just barely manage to eck out a win on the narrowest magin possible" is significantly more stupid than "Yes, angeron is a mad dog and a threat to everyone around him, but surely if I keep him pointed in the direction of the enemy it'll be fine".
Or "I'll capitalize on the predictable actions of my enemy and engineer those actions into my own plans."

The Emperor set up an Imperium that absolutely was going to have a massive, destructive, civil war. The masses of humanity were not going to stand for the rule of the Primarchs and their Astartes going forward, transhuman rule was indeed explicitly rejected by the Emperor and directly opposed to his publicly stated premise for the entire Crusade. The Treaty of Olympus Mons solved none of the actual issues between the Imperium and Mars, and once the galaxy was secured either the Legions would be turned against the Mechanicum to eradicate the Cult Mechanicus and return actual science and study to the masses or the Mechanicum would act against the Emperor for his constant violations of his agreement with them; Mars was also ripe for a civil war of its own. Lorgar remained unbowed, Magnus was violating the Edict of Nikaea literally within hours of it being articulated, Angron was still Angron, the Emperor's Children were still a degenerate pleasure cult lead by a daemon possessed Primarch; any, all, or a combination of these issues is going to come to a head and in every case it will be a civil war.

All of that totally ignores that the Imperium as structured is the most pointless government ever devised. For a polity nominally driven to secure humanities future and unify it under the Imperial Truth to restore what it lost, it had a government utterly focused on persecuting a galaxy spanning war. And even then, it was fighting said galaxy spanning war without ever bothering to even have a logistics core, a developed chain of command, or standardization of any kind.

Sure, if the Heresy didn't occur or the Emperor remained active after it was over then reforming the system of government into something that functioned wouldn't have been beyond him; but it would have been easier to build it in from day one and the Emperor never did. There is a reason that Guilliman had to basically restructure the whole system from scratch post Heresy.

The Hersey as portrayed in the GW novels is incredibly stupid, because the project was badly mismanaged from the start (as shown by them choosing to start the series with Horus's fall), and was probably beyond GW's ability to handle anyway. There are worthwhile bits here and there, but frankly the default attitude toward sny derived from it should be "ok, so explain why I should accept this bit of fluff here as canon". You certainly shouldn't just run with all of it as canon and the lean into the stupidest fan theory ever to worm its way into offical material.
Again, either the Emperor was fundamentally a retard (which is the diametric opposite of every statement everyone ever made about him in any of the Lore) or he was not undertaking the Great Crusade for the purpose of accomplishing any of his stated goals.

I mean take Magnus. Everyone and their mother knew he was going to ignore the Edict, obeying it is fundamentally at odds with his entire character. What is the Emperor's big project? The Imperial Webway, a massive undertaking of psy-arcana. Who is supposed to sit their ass on the Golden Throne and control said Webway? A red cyclops. I know, why not bring Magnus back to Earth to help with this project while sending some spies to keep an eye on his legion.

Or the Imperial Truth vs. religion. Despite literally all of human history, which I have personally lived through, making it absolutely plain that human beings have an almost obsessive need to believe in religion of one description or another, especially in less than stellar circumstances, I shall push militant atheism onto the whole of humanity. And I shall push this atheism while playing into every bit of religious iconography that I can find, and while actively, personally, doing everything that I can to appear divine.

Or the "You shall accept all of my actions and statements at face value, despite the fact that basically every one of those actions is shrouded in secrecy, utilizes deception as a matter of course, and involves lying through me teeth to everyone and their mother." I mean literally ANYTHING that presupposes that the Emperor cares a solitary damn for honor, morality, honesty, integrity, or sacrificing whatever lives he needs to accomplish his ends (and at any scale) is in fundamental conflict with literally everything we are ever shown about the Emperor's character, actions, and beliefs.

So why should we accept that he was honest in his public statements concerning the purposes of the Great Crusade and forming the Imperium?
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik


New Age of Sh... Sigmar game is out for just the Playstation 4 apparently... so you know you can attest to its quality.
 

ParadiseLost

Well-known member
New Age of Sh... Sigmar game is out for just the Playstation 4 apparently... so you know you can attest to its quality.

It's out on all platforms, PC, XB, PS, NS, etc.

Also from the reviews I've read it's the best Warhammer game released in a while. It's apparently a pretty great blend of strategy and rogue-lite, with a good multiplayer mode and plans to release more campaigns and factions for both SP and MP. Honestly kinda wished I'd preordered it.

Necromunda Hired Gun also released today. It got mediocre reviews, currently holding a 61 on Metacritic and a 65% on Steam. I actually did preorder it, but I cancelled my preorder because of the terrible reviews.

I was hoping for an interesting and immersive SP campaign, but Necromunda Hired Gun seems to be a shitty Doom ripoff with an almost non existent story.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
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It's out on all platforms, PC, XB, PS, NS, etc.

Also from the reviews I've read it's the best Warhammer game released in a while. It's apparently a pretty great blend of strategy and rogue-lite, with a good multiplayer mode and plans to release more campaigns and factions for both SP and MP. Honestly kinda wished I'd preordered it.

Necromunda Hired Gun also released today. It got mediocre reviews, currently holding a 61 on Metacritic and a 65% on Steam. I actually did preorder it, but I cancelled my preorder because of the terrible reviews.

I was hoping for an interesting and immersive SP campaign, but Necromunda Hired Gun seems to be a shitty Doom ripoff with an almost non existent story.
Non existent campaign? It definitely has one.

It is also apperent a fun game and have a VERY good music score and scenery.

It is 40k in necromunda. What in depth immersive campaign were you thinking?
 

ParadiseLost

Well-known member
Non existent campaign? It definitely has one.

It is also apperent a fun game and have a VERY good music score and scenery.

It is 40k in necromunda. What in depth immersive campaign were you thinking?

Non existent story, not non existent campaign. It has a campaign, but the campaign is basically just "You pissed off Gang A, now go here and shoot people. Oh, now you pissed off Gang B, now go here and shoot people." Rinse and repeat.

To me, that's not really much of a story - it's very, very barebones. I was hoping for an over the top, ridiculous action story, but there doesn't seem to be much of one.

Yes, I've heard the gameplay is good and the music too - but I could get Doom Eternal Deluxe on sale for less than this game. I'll wait for Hired Gun to go on sale for 75%+ before I buy it given how it's turned out.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Non existent story, not non existent campaign. It has a campaign, but the campaign is basically just "You pissed off Gang A, now go here and shoot people. Oh, now you pissed off Gang B, now go here and shoot people." Rinse and repeat.

To me, that's not really much of a story - it's very, very barebones. I was hoping for an over the top, ridiculous action story, but there doesn't seem to be much of one.

Yes, I've heard the gameplay is good and the music too - but I could get Doom Eternal Deluxe on sale for less than this game. I'll wait for Hired Gun to go on sale for 75%+ before I buy it given how it's turned out.
Have you...looked into it besides reading reviews?

And this game is literally about you being a hired gun.
What kinda story did you think?

It is an action shooter. From what I know, Necromunda is literally just what the story of hired gun is. Killing gangs.
Nothing more nothing less.

Eh, Hired Gun has some elements that Eternal doesn't. It is also 40k and a lot more RPG then Eternal.


One needs to remember that this is made by the same people who made Deathwing
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
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Obozny
Hired Gun does seem to lack any sort of real selling point, aside from the price point and being a doom clone that doesn't go to the extremes Doom Eternal did.

Doomlike gameplay is fine, but Hired Gun doesn't bring anything new to the table, aside from a poorly implemented execution system and....ADS, which I'm sure is just what the people wanted.

Story wise, it's got nothing notable. Which is fine, it doesn't need a great story, but it mean the story isn't a valid strength either.

The environment designs are nice, yes, but from what I've seen in reviews they're taking a of inspiration from existing terrain kits. I've barely played any of the new 40k games and I'm already starting to get tired of the pixels perfect recreation of the munitorium armored containers kit that litter every game.


It also has, IMO, two big downsides.

1. For combat, your opinions are to shoot people with bullets, or two shoot people with other, slightly different bullets. Sometimes it's normal bullets, sometimes they're rocket propelled exploding bullets, sometimes it's a laser bullet, but bullets it shall be. Which is fine in theory, but it misses out on the biggest advantage of setting the game in necromunda, which is all the other, much more absurd weapons available. Harpoon guns, flamethrowers, etc, all seem to be missing, the only sort of special weapons you have access to are the plasma gun (as usual) and, bizzarely, a grav gun, which is (as far as I know) really ill suited to necromunda.

There's nothing precisely wrong with this state of affairs, it's just a serious missed opportunity.

2. Some of the posters and art assets used are straight from the Regimental Standard, which I am 100% not in favor of. The Standard is very funny as a tongue in cheek take on the 40k setting and pokes fun at some fandom ideas (such as the old joke about how a twin linked lasgun is just a normal lasgun with a laser sight on it) but establishing it as a canonical, in universe thing doesn't really work. The "Rah Rah, lasguns kill anything and then you use the bayonets" thing just doesn't fit into a more serious, grounded setting.

It is an action shooter. From what I know, Necromunda is literally just what the story of hired gun is. Killing gangs.

Yes and no. Necromunda is a skirmish war game between bands of like a dozen guys fighting it out, and there is no broader story. That said, it does have a story of sorts, your soldiers will grow and evolve as the campaign progresses based on thier actions in the game. Punchman McStabby doesn't play any role in a larger story about ending the gang war or whatever, but he has his own story about growing from a scrawny little Juvie with a rusty knife and a dream to a champion of his gang and hero of his crew.

Hired Gun has your character be significantly more static, from what I gather.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Hired Gun does seem to lack any sort of real selling point, aside from the price point and being a doom clone that doesn't go to the extremes Doom Eternal did.

Doomlike gameplay is fine, but Hired Gun doesn't bring anything new to the table, aside from a poorly implemented execution system and....ADS, which I'm sure is just what the people wanted.

Story wise, it's got nothing notable. Which is fine, it doesn't need a great story, but it mean the story isn't a valid strength either.

The environment designs are nice, yes, but from what I've seen in reviews they're taking a of inspiration from existing terrain kits. I've barely played any of the new 40k games and I'm already starting to get tired of the pixels perfect recreation of the munitorium armored containers kit that litter every game.


It also has, IMO, two big downsides.

1. For combat, your opinions are to shoot people with bullets, or two shoot people with other, slightly different bullets. Sometimes it's normal bullets, sometimes they're rocket propelled exploding bullets, sometimes it's a laser bullet, but bullets it shall be. Which is fine in theory, but it misses out on the biggest advantage of setting the game in necromunda, which is all the other, much more absurd weapons available. Harpoon guns, flamethrowers, etc, all seem to be missing, the only sort of special weapons you have access to are the plasma gun (as usual) and, bizzarely, a grav gun, which is (as far as I know) really ill suited to necromunda.

There's nothing precisely wrong with this state of affairs, it's just a serious missed opportunity.

2. Some of the posters and art assets used are straight from the Regimental Standard, which I am 100% not in favor of. The Standard is very funny as a tongue in cheek take on the 40k setting and pokes fun at some fandom ideas (such as the old joke about how a twin linked lasgun is just a normal lasgun with a laser sight on it) but establishing it as a canonical, in universe thing doesn't really work. The "Rah Rah, lasguns kill anything and then you use the bayonets" thing just doesn't fit into a more serious, grounded setting.



Yes and no. Necromunda is a skirmish war game between bands of like a dozen guys fighting it out, and there is no broader story. That said, it does have a story of sorts, your soldiers will grow and evolve as the campaign progresses based on thier actions in the game. Punchman McStabby doesn't play any role in a larger story about ending the gang war or whatever, but he has his own story about growing from a scrawny little Juvie with a rusty knife and a dream to a champion of his gang and hero of his crew.

Hired Gun has your character be significantly more static, from what I gather.
You basically just piss off every gang and go on a killing spree.
Having watched Rimmy play it, the regimental standard stuff they used is more of the grounded stuff.

They have ti definitely make a lot of fixes to the game.. there is that

And the set pieces in it are diffrent from damn near every other 40k game in the market.

It also have some cool tyranid scenery as well.

The scenery feels like 40k, but at the same time feels like it's own world.
 

Robovski

Well-known member
I was thinking of getting Hired Gun. Primarily, I am interested in a first person shooter with good gameplay in this setting. I had a good time with Rage 2 recently and was looking for something else when I'm not shooting tanks or stomping in a Battlemech for my evening gaming while I continue to wait for Humankind...
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
I was thinking of getting Hired Gun. Primarily, I am interested in a first person shooter with good gameplay in this setting. I had a good time with Rage 2 recently and was looking for something else when I'm not shooting tanks or stomping in a Battlemech for my evening gaming while I continue to wait for Humankind...
Ever play doom/Doom Eternal?
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
I have played plenty of the original DOOM, the reboot was a bit more fast paced than I liked at the time but I was thinking of giving it another go if it came on sale cheap again.
Hired gun is like the newer dooms. It is a little fast paced
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
I have played plenty of the original DOOM, the reboot was a bit more fast paced than I liked at the time but I was thinking of giving it another go if it came on sale cheap again.
In that case, Hired Gun may not be something you are looking for - to me it is very fast paced, certainly faster than Doom.
 

Robovski

Well-known member
Hired gun is like the newer dooms. It is a little fast paced
I hear you. Might not be for me. Do enemies respawn or can I clear an area eventually? That's one of my main deal breakers and why I didn't like the original Rage much but did like Rage 2.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
He has fun, and after wtahcing most of his stream where he gets even more guns. It seems fun
 

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