What is the worst alternate history you’ve ever read? (Pre-1900)
- Thread starter Winston Bush
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Winston Bush
Well-known member
Poor Conelly.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Well that's great and all, but this genre has rules and they broke every single one of them. So much so they could have simply made it a fantasy, changed nothing in the grand scheme of things, and avoided all this mess.
Pocky Balboa
Well-known member
What problem was there for them? Their original franchise became a success and their audience was entertained. Not to mention they were popular enough several years later for a bunch of new movies. Plus you talk as if breaking genre rules is a bad thing. If the mecha and mahou shoujo stuck to their genre rules for example all the stories would only be super robots controlled by kids and magical girls coming from another world to do random episode-of-the-week stuff.
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
Well, you are better man than me, I couldn't make it through the first book. I got it as a free PDF and I still wanted my money back.
The Phule
The Phule on the Hill
Some people disagree with the way they feel the modern German government has been distanced from the atrocities of the Third Reich. Especially the way US history insists it was the nazis who did the bad shit, instead of the German people who did it. However, having known actual Germans, I would like to point out that according to them German school history classes actually teach the Third Reich as a failure of the German people, and not as an outside evil force taking control of everything.
Unlike, say, my own education in rural Michigan, where the Nazis are almost treated like evil space aliens that somehow mind-controlled the leadership of a nation while the people cowered in fear.
I assume that's what ATP is talking about.
After 1956 germany started replacing german camps with nazi camps in their propaganda.After 1990 those nazis become poles.
When ZDF lied about polish death camps,one of polish prisoners of german death camps ,Karol Tendera,sued them.He died in 2019,and ZDF still do not apologized.
I do not knew,if weird count as worst,but i read "Powroty"/my translation - returns/ by Adam Pietrasiewicz and Wojciech Bogaczyk/ - when somebody gave info to polish leader Rydz-Śmigły about how war would end, he take Hitler proposition, together conqered soviets/they run to Syberia/ and then USA nuked Japan fleet,germany,polish army,tsar,and gave entire Europe to soviets,just like in OTL.
So,somebody else change history again and it come back to OTL.
Stupid.Change of history mean change - even if USA nuked everybody,they would not gave anything to soviet surviving on Syberia.
So,somebody else change history again and it come back to OTL.
Stupid.Change of history mean change - even if USA nuked everybody,they would not gave anything to soviet surviving on Syberia.
Basileus_Komnenos
Imperator Romanorum Βασιλεύς των Ρωμαίων
While its not really that bad, a personal pet peeve of mine is where in a monarchical tl the monarchy always ends up abolished, or relegated to a ceremonial position every time it reaches the 20th century. While this isn't an implausible political development, its a bit of a tired trope that has overstayed its welcome. The current UK parliamentary system for example was as a result of centuries of political developments over time. A slight butterfly could easily alter this. One such butterfly could be that the male line of the house of Hannover continues which allows for the monarch's role to be emphasized in HER majesty's government.
I would agree to a point but it depends on what your considering as the alternatives. Suspect a fully autocratic monarchy, such as the Romanov's at the start of the last century would struggle to survive simply because autocratic states have crippling penalties in the modern age, especially if they become pretty much one person rule. That's why states like Stalinist Russia, Nazi Germany and Mao's China were such basket cases. Suspect the same will happen to China in the next couple of decades if Xi maintains pretty much unchecked power. Autocratic states in which assorted interests and people are competing for power - and determined not to have a single person in sole charge are still at a disadvantage in the longer term but less so than such systems, which was why post-Stalin Russia was able to stagger along for several decades for instance.
A system where the king/emperor has significant political power, such as pre-1945 Japan or current day Thailand for instance can well exist but very much depends on the individual and also the background. Notoriously in Japan, regardless of what Hirohito thought, which we might never know for sure, still went totally off the rails because of the excessive power of the military and the Thai monarchy is currently under pressure in part because of widely perceived corruption. Similarly a bit earlier the desire for monarchical power to overcome more 'democratic' influences was quite possible fatal for Greece in its war with Turkey after WWI.
I can see a revival of monarchical structures, possibly even very autocratic ones as they have played such a massive role in history and also as trends change the appeal of more democratic and populous systems of government can fade as they did in the period leading up to the rise of imperial Rome. However a lot depends on how human understanding of its culture and society develops.
They should have a timeline where Connally masterminded the assassination attempt as an epic false flag attempt in some elaborate scheme for him to seize the highest offices of American Power!
LBJ is next!!!
Winston Bush
Well-known member
I’d read that just for the comedy factor. In fact i want to write that!They should have a timeline where Connally masterminded the assassination attempt as an epic false flag attempt in some elaborate scheme for him to seize the highest offices of American Power!
LBJ is next!!!
edgeworthy
Well-known member
Ah, that one! The Stars and Stripes Trilogy is so bad it should come with a mandatory health warning.
Its less a question of did the author get anything wrong, and more did he get anything right.
It is generally considered to be the definition of a Wank, many parts are literally physically impossible.
There is a comprehensive review of part one, which I suggest be read with extreme caution.
Review of Stars and Stripes Forever | SpaceBattles Forums
The following parts are even worse.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Of published works I'd nominate Turtledove's Darkness series. Granted I made it only partway into the first book. It's an "alternate history" of WW2 with magic and dragons... but follows events so closely you'd never be able to tell. The magic and dragons and whatnot have done nothing to change recorded history except swap some words.
I made it partway through the first novel when the characters encounter problems with shipping, because theirtrains magic carpets use different gauges leylines so they have to unload from one train carpet to another. By then I had the distinct feeling he'd actually taken somebody's WW2 history report and simply used auto-replace to put magic carpet in for train, magic in for science, dragon in for plane, and so forth.
I made it partway through the first novel when the characters encounter problems with shipping, because their
There is polish writer,Igor Witkowski which once specialized in german secret weapons during WW2.From 2014 he is writing about good aliens coming to save us from bad american way of life and Holy Mary.
Anyway,he wrote "Germania 1947" in which germans wins by:
1.Using sarin in 1944 to wile out soviets armies - not possible,sarin was not that good.
2.Destroy american armies with new tanks using infra red vision and infrantry with Stg44.Again,not possible - battles was decided by artillery by that time,and american artillery was the best in the world.
They could be stopped,but not routed.
3.destroy american bombers with Me 262,Ta183 and few Lippish P.13.Against,not possible - they all needed long airfields and have range worst then P.51.American would take losses,but win destroing jets on airfields.
4.Destroy english Lancasters by guided AA rockets.Not impossible ?
5.Go east and retake Poland and part of Ukraine using E.50 and E.75 tanks. Soviets ask for peace or surrender,i arleady forget.
Not possible - soviets had numbers.They could be stopped,but not routed.Especially,that german keep being germans and treated them like shit.
6.Launch V.10 with A bombs to destroy few american cities,use sarin to genocide London.Both England and USA ask for peace.
Not possible - USA would have 10 A bombs for 1 german,and stealthy B.35 bomber to deliver them.USA cities would be burned ? then germany would glow in night.And there would be nobody left to surrender.
All in all - worst possible alternate hostory.
Anyway,he wrote "Germania 1947" in which germans wins by:
1.Using sarin in 1944 to wile out soviets armies - not possible,sarin was not that good.
2.Destroy american armies with new tanks using infra red vision and infrantry with Stg44.Again,not possible - battles was decided by artillery by that time,and american artillery was the best in the world.
They could be stopped,but not routed.
3.destroy american bombers with Me 262,Ta183 and few Lippish P.13.Against,not possible - they all needed long airfields and have range worst then P.51.American would take losses,but win destroing jets on airfields.
4.Destroy english Lancasters by guided AA rockets.Not impossible ?
5.Go east and retake Poland and part of Ukraine using E.50 and E.75 tanks. Soviets ask for peace or surrender,i arleady forget.
Not possible - soviets had numbers.They could be stopped,but not routed.Especially,that german keep being germans and treated them like shit.
6.Launch V.10 with A bombs to destroy few american cities,use sarin to genocide London.Both England and USA ask for peace.
Not possible - USA would have 10 A bombs for 1 german,and stealthy B.35 bomber to deliver them.USA cities would be burned ? then germany would glow in night.And there would be nobody left to surrender.
All in all - worst possible alternate hostory.
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In my honest opinion, all "Nazi Germany win WW2 TLs" with a POD during WW2 or right at the start of WW2 are incredibly unrealistic.
Nazi Germany sealed their fate when they declared war on Poland in 1939. The war itself was just a culmination of all their (the Nazi's) absolutely idiotic decisions, internal conflict, and economic mismanagement/corruption.
The only way for Nazi Germany to win WW2 while still staying Nazi is through major changes in history before WW2, preferably at the end of WW1. These changes will not impact the course of WW1, but they'll have a very big effect on the Weimar Republic and the (slightly earlier~1931) ascension of the Nazi Party.
For example (this is part of my book "Reich Turbulent" in case anyone's wondering): The German Naval Command orders the High Seas Fleet and other Kaiserliche Marine warships and subs to be scuttled after a more violent Kiel Mutiny, due to fears that communists sailors might seize the ships and use them to pull an "Aurora" or "Potemkin". This has little effect on WW1, but this becomes a major boon for the Kriegsmarine (and Germany in general) during the Nazi era.
The Kriegsmarine and Nazi Germany in general suffered from a lack of military grade raw materials. And because the price of scrap metal is so low after WW1, no one is going to salvage those ships because it wouldn't be worth the cost. Therefore, those ships will remain there until the Nazi era, where they will then be salvaged for their steel (the guns from the ships could be taken off and turned into railway guns or heavy artillery, like what the Germans did to SMS Konigsberg in Africa). All that steel will alleviate Nazi Germany's military grade raw materials shortage to a significant degree (for at least 5 years) and allow them to construct much more military equipment than there were capable of in OTL.
Eparkhos
Well-known member
Fear, Loathing and Gumbo and its sequel, Rumsfeldia.
It's a damn shame, too. FLG started out as a nice, interesting timeline before it spiraled out into REPUBLIKKKANS EBIL!!!!11!!!