Would the Ottoman Empire have still gotten expelled from the Balkans and North Africa if it wasn't for the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars?
- Thread starter WolfBear
- Start date
Sorry. Like most/all of mine its basically in my head and assorted scribbling.
I've always had plans for numerous such scenarios but lacked the will power and especially in later days lack the energy to do the sort of research I would feel required to make a scenario that I was happy would be reasonably plausible.Sorry. Like most/all of mine its basically in my head and assorted scribbling.
You can do it in the form of short bullet points if it makes it much easier!
Guys
Apologies but been busy helping a mate out for most of this month. Trying to catch up now.
Brief, off the top of my head summary
1809:-
a) John Moore avoids his OTL death at the Battle of Corunna - which gives Britain two high quality generals to play with.
b) The Napoleonic war continues to 1814 when he is defeated and exiled as OTL although the details are somewhat different.
c) He returns as OTL and has more success defeating both Prussian and British/allied forces. The commander of the latter, the Duke of Cumberland is killed but his 2nd in command the Duke of Wellington is able to rally the core of his forces and withdraw to the Antwerp region where he stands a siege until relived. The Allies are however determined to fight on and a weakened Imperial force is bled white and defeated. Napoleon himself dies in Paris in a riot when he makes a final attempt to rally the mob against the advancing allied forces. The greater resistance means somewhat harsher terms for France and some differences in the borders.
d) The war of 1812-18 is a disaster for the US. It doesn't diverge greatly in the 1st few years but greater British success in the 'Old NW' and also in the Florida region - don't ask - plus then early French successes in 1815 means that the US decides to fight on and rallies a massive effort in 1816 to crush British resistance. This fails against well lead British forces and also the bitter weather of the year without a summer. The behaviour of retreating remnants of the US force that had attacked towards Montreal as they retreat through Vermont prompts what becomes the New England revolt which after some delay forms a defensive alliance with the British. After the surrender of New York the following year its a matter of time before the US makes peace. Britain gets Florida, most of the old NW - as the BIT [British Indian Territory] - and later a border on the 45th parallel along with removing US access to the Grand Banks fisheries. New England becomes independent.
e) There is relative peace until in the late 1830's there are clashes over the rule of Portugal and Spain. Britain supports more liberal claimants while France supports more reactionary ones. This leads to the Anglo-French war of 1841-47. Overall a defeat for Britain with France gaining control of Spain and Portugal as well as a chunk of NW Africa. Furthermore a kingdom of Ireland covering some 60% of Ireland is established under the House of Orleans. [The main Bourbon line continues in France itself] A brief naval superiority means that French forces also land in southern England and for a while threaten London itself but are held in heavy fighting. Mutual exhaustion, coupled with Britain regaining naval dominance and the ending of the German war prompts the resulting peace of Copenhagen that ends the conflict.
Three other wars occur in the same basic period.
i) The German war sees Prussia along with Hungary and Savoy seek to defeat Austria and its allies. However after several years of bitter fighting they are themselves defeated. Savoy and Hungary stay independent but lose land while Prussia sees major losses with the establishment of the kingdoms of Cologne and Belgium along with the return of the Wettin dynasty to Saxony - as well as keeping their lands in Lorraine - Austria regaining Silesia and allies also making gains, most noticeably Hanover.
ii) With the great powers of Europe tied up in conflict Muhammad Ali makes another attempt to conquer the Ottoman empire, with considerable success. A desperate Ottoman state is forced to turn to the only power free to help them, the Russian empire. As a result of several years of war Russia gains de-facto control of the Balkans, Anatolia and parts of northern Syria and Mesopotamia. Southern Syria remains in Egyptian hands and Mesopotamia is a contested wasteland with Russian, Persian and in the south British elements seeking influence/control.
iii) The US, having regained some confidence and occupying much of northern Mexico in the 1830's attacks a distracted British empire again. Bitter fighting occurs until 1849 until peace is agreed. Only desperate defence of the BIT and Florida along with the bulk of eastern Canada enables total defeat to be avoided, although sizeable proportions of the 1st two are lost to the US. [Volunteers from the New England Confederacy also play a significant role in Canadian survival.]
There is a large measure of peace until the 1860's which sees the collapse of the overstretched Russian empire with the loss of its gains in the Balkans and Anatolia and also a 4th Anglo-American war over the future of the rump Mexican state. With reforms resulting from the shock of the 1840 conflict Britain and Canada are significantly stronger and largely distracted and able to inflict a heavy defeat on the US. Britain takes over the Californian province and moves the border west of the Mississippi down to the 42th parallel as well as regaining territory lost in the 1849 treaty. Mexico regains its northern territories up to and including the New Mexico and western Tejas regions. The US is forced to end slavery.
Anyway the basis of it from what I can remember. Have more details written down about the place in a few drafts but didn't take it further than this point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lines_of_Torres_Vedras
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer
Apologies but been busy helping a mate out for most of this month. Trying to catch up now.
Brief, off the top of my head summary
1809:-
a) John Moore avoids his OTL death at the Battle of Corunna - which gives Britain two high quality generals to play with.
b) The Napoleonic war continues to 1814 when he is defeated and exiled as OTL although the details are somewhat different.
c) He returns as OTL and has more success defeating both Prussian and British/allied forces. The commander of the latter, the Duke of Cumberland is killed but his 2nd in command the Duke of Wellington is able to rally the core of his forces and withdraw to the Antwerp region where he stands a siege until relived. The Allies are however determined to fight on and a weakened Imperial force is bled white and defeated. Napoleon himself dies in Paris in a riot when he makes a final attempt to rally the mob against the advancing allied forces. The greater resistance means somewhat harsher terms for France and some differences in the borders.
d) The war of 1812-18 is a disaster for the US. It doesn't diverge greatly in the 1st few years but greater British success in the 'Old NW' and also in the Florida region - don't ask
- plus then early French successes in 1815 means that the US decides to fight on and rallies a massive effort in 1816 to crush British resistance. This fails against well lead British forces and also the bitter weather of the year without a summer. The behaviour of retreating remnants of the US force that had attacked towards Montreal as they retreat through Vermont prompts what becomes the New England revolt which after some delay forms a defensive alliance with the British. After the surrender of New York the following year its a matter of time before the US makes peace. Britain gets Florida, most of the old NW - as the BIT [British Indian Territory] - and later a border on the 45th parallel along with removing US access to the Grand Banks fisheries. New England becomes independent. e) There is relative peace until in the late 1830's there are clashes over the rule of Portugal and Spain. Britain supports more liberal claimants while France supports more reactionary ones. This leads to the Anglo-French war of 1841-47. Overall a defeat for Britain with France gaining control of Spain and Portugal as well as a chunk of NW Africa. Furthermore a kingdom of Ireland covering some 60% of Ireland is established under the House of Orleans. [The main Bourbon line continues in France itself] A brief naval superiority means that French forces also land in southern England and for a while threaten London itself but are held in heavy fighting. Mutual exhaustion, coupled with Britain regaining naval dominance and the ending of the German war prompts the resulting peace of Copenhagen that ends the conflict.
Three other wars occur in the same basic period.
i) The German war sees Prussia along with Hungary and Savoy seek to defeat Austria and its allies. However after several years of bitter fighting they are themselves defeated. Savoy and Hungary stay independent but lose land while Prussia sees major losses with the establishment of the kingdoms of Cologne and Belgium along with the return of the Wettin dynasty to Saxony - as well as keeping their lands in Lorraine - Austria regaining Silesia and allies also making gains, most noticeably Hanover.
ii) With the great powers of Europe tied up in conflict Muhammad Ali makes another attempt to conquer the Ottoman empire, with considerable success. A desperate Ottoman state is forced to turn to the only power free to help them, the Russian empire. As a result of several years of war Russia gains de-facto control of the Balkans, Anatolia and parts of northern Syria and Mesopotamia. Southern Syria remains in Egyptian hands and Mesopotamia is a contested wasteland with Russian, Persian and in the south British elements seeking influence/control.
iii) The US, having regained some confidence and occupying much of northern Mexico in the 1830's attacks a distracted British empire again. Bitter fighting occurs until 1849 until peace is agreed. Only desperate defence of the BIT and Florida along with the bulk of eastern Canada enables total defeat to be avoided, although sizeable proportions of the 1st two are lost to the US. [Volunteers from the New England Confederacy also play a significant role in Canadian survival.]
There is a large measure of peace until the 1860's which sees the collapse of the overstretched Russian empire with the loss of its gains in the Balkans and Anatolia and also a 4th Anglo-American war over the future of the rump Mexican state. With reforms resulting from the shock of the 1840 conflict Britain and Canada are significantly stronger and largely distracted and able to inflict a heavy defeat on the US. Britain takes over the Californian province and moves the border west of the Mississippi down to the 42th parallel as well as regaining territory lost in the 1849 treaty. Mexico regains its northern territories up to and including the New Mexico and western Tejas regions. The US is forced to end slavery.
Anyway the basis of it from what I can remember. Have more details written down about the place in a few drafts but didn't take it further than this point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lines_of_Torres_Vedras
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer