There's actually an Axis-themed anime, if you're curious, @Zyobot:
Also, which bloc do Vichy France and Francoist Spain join in this TL?
Also, which bloc do Vichy France and Francoist Spain join in this TL?
That has never stopped Germans from trying. It would probably be a combination of death camps, artificial famines and large scale poisonings ongoing for years before the Germans give up the extermination efforts.Too many French to exterminate. You're talking about exterminating 40 million people in a country where they are the overwhelming majority of the total population. Much harder than exterminating a 6 million-strong Jewish minority where they numbered no more than 15% at the very most in any of the countries that they lived in.
That has never stopped Germans from trying. It would probably be a combination of death camps, artificial famines and large scale poisonings ongoing for years before the Germans give up the extermination efforts.
Yes, though probably even less successful than the holodomor if you count by percent of population.So, basically, a more "multifaceted" French Holodomor that makes Stalin's mass-murdering look reserved and restrained?
There was nearly an Anglo-French governmental union IIRC? So assuming war were off the table, the UK would probably bite. Makes sense to have some hold on the continent rather than none. What happens to French colonial holdings though? Would the UK be given Normandy and similar regions in return for helping the Germans take French controlled regions of Africa?Yes, though probably even less successful than the holodomor if you count by percent of population.
Though what are your thoughts of the selling the UK Normandy idea? Would the UK bite?
I'm not sure, I think there will be a bit of horse trading on dibs that won't be acted on immediately and will in several cases be reneged upon later, like how the British raised a stink over Italy taking the parts of Africa they were promised after the First World War.There was nearly an Anglo-French governmental union IIRC? So assuming war were off the table, the UK would probably bite. Makes sense to have some hold on the continent rather than none. What happens to French colonial holdings though? Would the UK be given Normandy and similar regions in return for helping the Germans take French controlled regions of Africa?
Uh, because Poland is where Prussia aka german clay is?Why Poland?
Too many French to exterminate. You're talking about exterminating 40 million people in a country where they are the overwhelming majority of the total population. Much harder than exterminating a 6 million-strong Jewish minority where they numbered no more than 15% at the very most in any of the countries that they lived in.
German-Italian split akin to the Sino-Soviet split?
It wouldn't be the same kind of process, and even the exact motivations would differ, but Italy would certainly have good reasons to detach themselves from the Germans if at all possible.
It seems likely to me that in the event of France being conquered with the goal of exterminating the populace, there won't be a Vichy government. Instead, I could see the Germans handing South-Eastern France off to the Italians. So if Italy distances itself from the Nazi regime, then the insane hermit kingdom is entirely North of the Pyrenees-Massif Central-Alps line.
In fact, it would be OTL's wealthy, developed (and haughtily progressive) North-Western Europe that would primarily be turned into this ATL Nazi nightmare state. And presumably, refugees would be fleeing South.
Well, Germany didn't actually rule Italy, and depending on how Italy does, turning them into an enemy may dangerously broaden the enemy coalition. Of course, the Nazis aren't all that sane and clear-minded. But still, having Italy go their own way a bit while still both being against the other blocs is better than turning everyone against you in unison.There could potentially be a break of that sort, albeit more because the Italians think the Nazis have gone off the deep end, as you alluded to (rather than the other way around, as IOTL).
Problem is, I’m not sure how well Germany would take it, or whether Italy would be allowed to detach in the first place? After all, death cults aren’t known for being hospitable or reasonable, so trying to force Italy back into line if it’s becoming “too uppity” doesn’t sound implausible to me. In fact, I can see more “moderate” Nazis who know the Reich needs to vent a little suggesting Southern Europe as somewhere to invade next, due to how “uncooperative” it’s been and how many “undesirable” refugees have fled there. Declaring war on the far-flung (and much more powerful) American and Soviet states wouldn’t be feasible, and I think “moderates” within the Reich would know that.
Well, Germany didn't actually rule Italy, and depending on how Italy does, turning them into an enemy may dangerously broaden the enemy coalition. Of course, the Nazis aren't all that sane and clear-minded. But still, having Italy go their own way a bit while still both being against the other blocs is better than turning everyone against you in unison.
Come to think of it, I wouln't be surprised if at least a faction in Germany reacted with: "Ah, good, those swarthy Italians were always half-African mongrels, better to have them out of our pure, Aryan brotherhood!"
I'm not sure Hitler is getting very old. His health was hetting poor in '45 in OTL. If he secures a victory that he considers satisfying in 1940, he'll probably fare a bit better, but he's not fated to become very old, I think. fter his death, it'll become increasingly clear that turning France and Poland into depopulated regions was a dumb move, and Germany's isolation will have increasingly unpleasant economic repercussions.So, if Old Man Adolf (or whoever else) gets loopy and overreacts to Italy splitting off, he winds up “dead of natural causes” before any real preparations can begin?
I'm not sure Hitler is getting very old. His health was hetting poor in '45 in OTL. If he secures a victory that he considers satisfying in 1940, he'll probably fare a bit better, but he's not fated to become very old, I think. fter his death, it'll become increasingly clear that turning France and Poland into depopulated regions was a dumb move, and Germany's isolation will have increasingly unpleasant economic repercussions.
I think that by this time (say, late '50s?) Germany will have atomic weapons, thus preventing invasion, but its prospects will actually be dim. They have to either denazify themselves and edge their way back into the international system, or they can double down and proclaim themselves the "only pure" country, pretending that their paranoid isolation is a deliberate choice.
And let's be appropriately cynical here. First off, while murdering millions of Jews and Eastern Europeans is horrible, you know that the Anglo-Americans are going to care a whole lot more when it's millions of Western Europeans being industrially slaughtered. So "denazifying" is going to have to be very convincing and thorough before Germany is treated as a regular peer nation again... something which the Nazi leadership may not be willing to do. Beyond that, the Nazis are a bunch of rabid assholes, and while the Soviets managed de-Stalinisation, I think it's in the Nazi character to always choose "double down" instead of "back down".
For these reasons, I see this victorious Reich slipping into a North Korea-like status, which is why Italy (along with Spain and the rest of Southern Europe) would feel the powerful urge to back away to relative safrty, all while making no sudden moves...
Come to think of it, I wouln't be surprised if at least a faction in Germany reacted with: "Ah, good, those swarthy Italians were always half-African mongrels, better to have them out of our pure, Aryan brotherhood!"
Ah, yes, Roman-educated Arminius, who was made a citizen and "attained the dignity of equestrian rank". And then betrayed the Romans who had made his career. That Arminius.I suppose that, in this TL, the Nazis can always boast about how even back when the Germanics were illiterate savages, they were still able to defeat the almighty Romans under the leadership of Arminius in this battle :
Ah, yes, Roman-educated Arminius, who was made a citizen and "attained the dignity of equestrian rank". And then betrayed the Romans who had made his career. That Arminius.
(Incidentally, I might point out this episode to @Lord Sovereign as a potential argument against trying to make foreigners into citizens altogether too quickly. I agree that "making them part of the tribe", as was observed in this discussion, has value in itself... but I feel it's better to build up a more well-rooted bond of loyalty first. Arminius is an example of how things can go wrong.)
Arminius is an example of how things can go wrong.)
He's an example but not necessarily the rule so to speak. Roman assimilation was incredibly potent and usually happened quite quickly. Gaul did not have an Arminius.
Gaul did have several leaders who joined Caesar and then tried to betray him later. He... wasn't subtle in the way he responded to that.He's an example but not necessarily the rule so to speak. Roman assimilation was incredibly potent and usually happened quite quickly. Gaul did not have an Arminius.