Doomsought
Well-known member
The historical misconceptions she had about the African slave trade were particularly annoying.monstrously powerful elephant-tusked ones in Africa,
The historical misconceptions she had about the African slave trade were particularly annoying.monstrously powerful elephant-tusked ones in Africa,
Not changing Europe's history too much didn't bother me, I think the reason the first book was decent was because the base idea was really interesting and the world wasn't developed anyway.
But once Temeraire and friends started traveling, Naomi Novik wrote herself into a corner because she gave awesome, powerful dragons much better than those feeble English ones to all the foreign nations. Firebreathers in the middle east, Chinese dragons that could shatter a fleet, monstrously powerful elephant-tusked ones in Africa, sandworms in Australia, Aztec dragons worshipped as gods, etc. Meanwhile England had mostly small dragons, none of them had special powers except for the acid spitters, and they tended to be so uncultured they slept on rocks in caves and didn't bother to even dig them out. But somehow those evil white people from Europe managed to colonize all those superior places anyway.
Worse, she made the "England" side the obvious bad guys in behavior except for Lawrence who was loyal to them to a fault making him appear to be a complete moron since he kept betraying England for its evil ways while also steadfastly maintaining his loyalty to King and country. It's very hard to actually like the protagonists by the end because they acted like schizo idiots due to wokeness colliding headfirst into history.
“You can have one unicorn in your garden as long as you are consistent about it.”P.S I think that @Doomsought is right - author made mistake do not changing history in Europe with dragons,and later anothers trying to change that
Not changing the history isn't that big an issue, not changing the culture, or the weapons people not riding dragons use in ways they'd respond to dragons was a worse issue but even that pales before the illogic of the culture she had surrounding dragons.P.S I think that @Doomsought is right - author made mistake do not changing history in Europe with dragons,and later anothers trying to change that
Worse, she made them stereotypical stupid-evil, there was no reason for their evil actions except to hurt the hero and were willing to hurt themselvs in order to do so.Worse, she made the "England" side the obvious bad guys in behavior except for Lawrence who was loyal to them to a fault making him appear to be a complete moron since he kept betraying England for its evil ways while also steadfastly maintaining his loyalty to King and country.
particularly when England OTL was responsible for ending the slave trade. Well, with the sole exception of them enslaving English speaking sailors.Worse, she made them stereotypical stupid-evil, there was no reason for their evil actions except to hurt the hero and were willing to hurt themselvs in order to do so.
You seem to have managed to read a lot further than I did, I stopped when they agreed to leave england for chinaparticularly when England OTL was responsible for ending the slave trade. Well, with the sole exception of them enslaving English speaking sailors.
The original story's catch was "Horatio Hornblower with Dragons" so Lordsfire's tale is quite accurate to Naomi Novik's stories. Temeraire and Lawrence's internal thinking and discussions are by far the strongest part of the books, especially early on. There is some real enjoyment to be had in their discussions and musings if you can turn off the part of your brain that notices all the wokeness and says "Wait, how on earth are English wimminz kept in the kitchen and out of politics or military power when the awesomely powerful acid-spitting dragons in England only accept female riders, usually in the same bloodline generation after generation, and this has been going on for hundreds to thousands of years?"Never knew about the dragon story until today, but the fanfic is good, with a touch of hornblower flavoring.
I made it to around where they discover that the Russian dragons were being controlled by barbed iron spikes driven through their ribcages and just kinda went How? How did humans ever manage to drive the first spikes in without the house-sized firebreathing masses of destruction killing them first? How are the dragons even still alive with massive barbed iron spikes apparently in their lungs? Why are all these people so pointlessly evil that Cobra Commander would tell them to ease up a bit, and how are they holding their empires together with this kind of behavior going on?You seem to have managed to read a lot further than I did, I stopped when they agreed to leave england for china
Thanks for confirming I was right to stop reading when I did.I made it to around where they discover that the Russian dragons were being controlled by barbed iron spikes driven through their ribcages and just kinda went How? How did humans ever manage to drive the first spikes in without the house-sized firebreathing masses of destruction killing them first? How are the dragons even still alive with massive barbed iron spikes apparently in their lungs? Why are all these people so pointlessly evil that Cobra Commander would tell them to ease up a bit, and how are they holding their empires together with this kind of behavior going on?
The original story's catch was "Horatio Hornblower with Dragons" so Lordsfire's tale is quite accurate to Naomi Novik's stories. Temeraire and Lawrence's internal thinking and discussions are by far the strongest part of the books, especially early on. There is some real enjoyment to be had in their discussions and musings if you can turn off the part of your brain that notices all the wokeness and says "Wait, how on earth are English wimminz kept in the kitchen and out of politics or military power when the awesomely powerful acid-spitting dragons in England only accept female riders, usually in the same bloodline generation after generation, and this has been going on for hundreds to thousands of years?"
I made it to around where they discover that the Russian dragons were being controlled by barbed iron spikes driven through their ribcages and just kinda went How? How did humans ever manage to drive the first spikes in without the house-sized firebreathing masses of destruction killing them first? How are the dragons even still alive with massive barbed iron spikes apparently in their lungs? Why are all these people so pointlessly evil that Cobra Commander would tell them to ease up a bit, and how are they holding their empires together with this kind of behavior going on?
This is wrong. Even ignoring all the many ways Dragons are not like Serfs, that's not how Russian law treated Serfs.2.Even easier to explain - dragons are treated like russian serfs,and unless Poland where serfs still have some rights,in Russia they were property.You could buy,sold,rape and beat to death them and nobody cared.
This is wrong. Even ignoring all the many ways Dragons are not like Serfs, that's not how Russian law treated Serfs.
Could a Russian noble rape or kill a serf? Sure.
Could a British rape or kill a servant? Sure.
Was it legal for them to do so? No way.
Could they get in a lot of trouble, up to getting executed if the wrong (or right) person found out about what they did? Yes. Granted a serf on a village a thousand miles from anywhere would have a lot more difficulty finding someone who cares than a servant in England, but the point is the nobles did need to be somewhat careful.
To an extent, this was in practice true. It was not however true to the extent you are suggesting and was never officially legally true.Unfortunatelly,no - russians sefs was property,so could be treated as such..
I'm reasonably sure Russian Serfs did not normally have barbed iron spikes driven into their ribcages in order to compel obedience.1.All to show how evul white society is.I have no problems becouse i saw from the start that story is to show how enlinghtened idea backed by Napoleon are better then evul royals.
2.Even easier to explain - dragons are treated like russian serfs,and unless Poland where serfs still have some rights,in Russia they were property.You could buy,sold,rape and beat to death them and nobody cared.
Althought it is really illogical ,that dragons which unless serfs could burn or smash people was treated that way.Author tried counter that by giving big dragons hoards of gold,which they just keep and did nothing with it.
Which paradoxally,is typical fairy tales dragon behaviour.
But i still do noy undarstandt why SI do not just take chineese waifu and lived in cyvilised China.Maybe becouse such waifu would be Manchu spy ?
Who care ! i want cute manchu spy waifu for myself ! and dragon,too !
To an extent, this was in practice true. It was not however true to the extent you are suggesting and was never officially legally true.
Serfs were tied to the land, but not (especially in the second serfdom) without rights. Enforcing those rights was of course a problem, but those rights did exist and a lord could get in trouble for getting cought violating them.
Russia had plenty of serfs and a lot of outright slaves, they were not however the same thing.Serfs was tied to the land in Poland,too.But only in Russia you could sold serfs without land,when in Poland you sell land with serfs who could not abadonn it.
Simply declaring serfdom to not be slaver because it is not chattel slavery is fallacious.Russia had plenty of serfs and a lot of outright slaves, they were not however the same thing.
Quite true, and that's not what I'm talking about. If you want to argue that all serfs are slaves I'd find it very difficult to argue against you. My point is that while serfs may be slaves, that does not mean all slaves are serfs.Simply declaring serfdom to not be slaver because it is not chattel slavery is fallacious.
Russia had plenty of serfs and a lot of outright slaves, they were not however the same thing.
I don't much about the polish serfs in the 19th century, you may well be right about that.And their serfs was still in much worst situation that polish one.