Free Speech and (Big Tech) Censorship Thread

[King Arts]

So I’m not going to argue for one way or another because I will admit I don’t know much about economics. But what are capital gains?

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

>The problem today isn't hyper wealthy plutocrats running the world and treating people as cogs in the machine
>Its people who want to stop this from continuing!
What the hell am I reading? This better not be a mandela effect dimensional shift and today's society is run by techno primitivists or something.

 

[Rocinante]

You're just another member of the same camp. You want to fight capitalism, don't you? You hate all who are richer than you, don't you? You think the rich only gain wealth because they exploit the working class, don't you?

I don't believe literally any of that, but nice try.

I do want to fight corporatism, because that's not capitalism. Our country's system is actively hampering free market capitalism, and that's THE ENTIRE PROBLEM. Our regulations make it difficult as hell to maintain a small business, to grow the business, and to become successful. Our regulations are strangling small business, making them less profitable, less common and less successful, while the big corps can weather the storm. They've set up a system that is very beneficial for the existing power and economic structures, while making it harder and harder in middle and upper middle classes.

The left wants even more of that, while the right wants to eliminate those regulations and open up our economy and free markets.

You retardedly have claimed I want to fight capitalism, when I view capitalism as the solution to the problem.

You're just leftists that are LARPing as right wingers because of some minor squabbles over doctrine. Your enemies are the same, your goals are the same, and even your methods are the same.

I've just demonstrated to you how our methods are quite different.

Because what do you think, that leftists don't seethe over tax loopholes? That they don't hate rich people not paying taxes they aren't obligated to pay? That they don't also ignore how the rich pay taxes far out of proportion to what they get out of it?

their solution is to raise taxes and keep the loopholes, and increase regulations. I have watched it many times. The right's solution tends to be lower the taxes and eliminate regulations. Pretty much the opposite.

It's just the same class conflict rhetoric in a new bottle. You can never defeat the left if you're just a minor fringe of the left.

If you want to win, be a Conservative, not a heretic of Marxism.

This is nonsense.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

But what are capital gains?

They are the increase in value of an asset.

Realized gains happen after selling an asset.

Unrealized gains are just an increase in value of an asset not sold.

 

[King Arts]

They are the increase in value of an asset.

Realized gains happen after selling an asset.

Unrealized gains are just an increase in value of an asset not sold.

Oh yeah then they shouldn’t really be taxed except maybe millionaires and billionaires.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

So I’m not going to argue for one way or another because I will admit I don’t know much about economics. But what are capital gains?

Capital gains are income from selling an investment. It's not a tax on the increase in value of an asset while you maintain ownership; it's a tax on the income you make when you sell the asset.

Before capital gains tax became a separate thing, capital gains were simply taxed the same as other income. That's kinda the key point -- capital gains tax was not creating a new tax on something that was previously untaxed, it was created as a tax break to give a special, lower rate on capital gains income as opposed to general income. Specifically, short term capital gains (from assets held less than one year) is taxed at the exact same rate as all other income; long term capital gains (from assets held for at least one full year after purchase) are taxed at a lower rate.

 

[Aldarion]

No.

You're a fake right winger, and a concern troll, and don't actually understand how right wingers think or work. It's quite obvious you aren't really one, and are just pretending, because you make it obvious that you don't understand right wing/conservative positions, while claiming that you're one of us.

Left and right can agree on the point that the rich often enough avoid their taxes, because they can afford the lawyers to exploit the loopholes.

Where the left and right differ is in the solution. The left's solution tends to be more regulation and higher tax rates. This generally hurts the middle and upper middle classes, and small to medium businesses, while the rich and corporate overlords still avoid their taxes. It's an iron weight chained the the legs of the economy.

Meanwhile, the right tends to lean towards solutions that look more like closing off loopholes, eliminating harmful regulations that are suffocating the economy, and instituting flat tax rates that are fair and Harder to weasel out of with lawyers. This option cuts the chains that are holding back the economy, will result in middle and upper middle classes having more money and power in their daily lives (the real problem for the left,) and will generate more tax revenue.

Just because we agree that there's a problem, doesn't mean that we're the same as leftists, because our solutions are quite different.

To be fair, difference between Left and Right is literally "revolution" vs "tradition". It is entirely possible for right-wing to be pro-regulation in some societies (e.g. Croatian Right often is pro-economic regulation).

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

To be fair, difference between Left and Right is literally "revolution" vs "tradition". It is entirely possible for right-wing to be pro-regulation in some societies (e.g. Croatian Right often is pro-economic regulation).

Left and right are sort of bullshit labels that are only applicable in specific circumstances, there's nothing stopping either 'side' from doing basically anything they want. Shockingly the 'left' were into tradition at one point, and the 'right' absolutely slapped down regulations.

At the end of the day I just hope people can figure out regulations are supported by huge companies because, well, it actually helps them, not hinders them.

 

[S'task]

One small problem, they just won't pay them. As is the case today. Rich people don't pay taxes not because they aren't taxed, but because it's legal to not pay taxes if you're rich.

. . . Look, while I agree the solution is less loopholes and lower, simpler taxes for all brackets, this idea that the rich don't pay taxes is entirely a myth, in point of fact the top 1% of income earners paid for around 46% of all Federal taxes paid in 2021 (the most recent data that I could find fully parsed out). This is while their earnings accounted for ~26% of all earnings made in 2021. In other words, the top 1% of income earners, who made ~26% of all income in that year paid ~46% of the taxes.

Further, the top 10% of income earners (those earning over ~$170k per year) paid ~76% of the taxes. This idea that the bulk of the tax burden falls on the middle class and the rich aren't paying as much as others is entirely false.

 

[Morphic Tide]

Yeah, most of the heavy-lifting on tax avoidance is in corporations and securities, which has a strong selection bias against the top "income earners" since capital gains and income under management are separate.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

this idea that the rich don't pay taxes is entirely a myth

It's also deliberate propaganda. It plays on our instinctive distrust for elites, weakens our faith in our political and economic system, and sets the elites and public against each other.

In other words, it's standard issue social subversion, no different from what colonial powers used to pull off in divided, tribalistic communities. And it's why I always distrust any supposed Conservative who openly pledges support for these measures while also screeching about unpopular, radical policies that keep losing elections.

It feels too much like leftist infiltrators trying to subvert Conservatives to their cause.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

. . . Look, while I agree the solution is less loopholes and lower, simpler taxes for all brackets, this idea that the rich don't pay taxes is entirely a myth, in point of fact the top 1% of income earners paid for around 46% of all Federal taxes paid in 2021 (the most recent data that I could find fully parsed out). This is while their earnings accounted for ~26% of all earnings made in 2021. In other words, the top 1% of income earners, who made ~26% of all income in that year paid ~46% of the taxes.

Further, the top 10% of income earners (those earning over ~$170k per year) paid ~76% of the taxes. This idea that the bulk of the tax burden falls on the middle class and the rich aren't paying as much as others is entirely false.

And yet they still dodge taxes legally, that's simply a fact. In my country there was a big scandal when it was revealed that despite making shitloads of money here, Apple paid some bullshit like 1% on their earnings.
Edit: Also a website based in DC making any unbiased or fair assessments, lol, lmao.
Double Edit: Not to mention any figures being listed anywhere being wrong anyways because the panama papers revealed some bullshit amount of money being hoarded to the number of 30 trillion dollars.