Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[King Arts]

Good going Russia, now Turkey is going to let us into the Black Sea.

Umm, correct me if I'm wrong but Turkey would already have let us through since we are allies. And they have a treaty that under international law requires them to let anyone pass the Bosporus as long as they aren't at war.

 

[Marduk]

Umm, correct me if I'm wrong but Turkey would already have let us through since we are allies. And they have a treaty that under international law requires them to let anyone pass the Bosporus as long as they aren't at war.

No, its more complicated.

Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Montreux Convention regulates maritime traffic through the Turkish Straits. It guarantees "complete freedom" of passage for all civilian vessels in times of peace. In peacetime, military vessels are limited in number, tonnage and weaponry, with specific provisions governing their mode of entry and duration of stay. If they want to pass through the Strait, warships must provide advance notification to the Turkish authorities, which, in turn, must inform the parties to the convention.[6][note 1] In wartime, if Turkey is not involved in the conflict, warships of the nations at war may not pass through the Straits, except when returning to their base.[7] When Turkey is at war, or feels threatened by a war, it may take any decision about the passage of warships as it sees fit.

 

[AmosTrask]

No, its more complicated.

Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yup. In this case they consider themselves threatened by Russia and its movements in Georgia, Syria, the groups Russia is funneling weapons and funds to in Turkey. Then there is Turkey's support for Ukraine and its rather public condemnation of Russia.

 

[AmosTrask]

I wonder where that entire Ukrainian Army Corp, three armies 60,000 - 90,000 soldiers amassing in Zaporizhia will attack. It is composed enrirely of only NATO equipped and trained younger recruits and officers. No Soviet era soldiers to fuck things up. The Russians are panicking. There are lines of dragon's teeth fortifications hundreds of miles inside Russia oriented for a Ukrainian attack.



Kazakhstan seized the Russian Cosmodrome and rockets because the Russians have been in arrears for a year and a half now. Lol. There goes Putin's prestige.

 

[Jormungandr]

Situation in Ukraine: ICC judges issue arrest warrants against Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin and Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova

Today, 17 March 2023, Pre-Trial Chamber II of the International Criminal Court (“ICC” or “the Court”) issued warrants of arrest for two individuals in the context of the situation in Ukraine: Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin and Ms Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova. Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin...

www.icc-cpi.int

Pretty much a meaningless gesture but an interesting one.

 

[King Arts]

Situation in Ukraine: ICC judges issue arrest warrants against Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin and Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova

Today, 17 March 2023, Pre-Trial Chamber II of the International Criminal Court (“ICC” or “the Court”) issued warrants of arrest for two individuals in the context of the situation in Ukraine: Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin and Ms Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova. Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin...

www.icc-cpi.int

Pretty much a meaningless gesture but an interesting one.

Again they did the same for Bush and Chryney unless the nation is occupied or a future government hands them over it’s just virtue signal.

 

[AmosTrask]

Situation in Ukraine: ICC judges issue arrest warrants against Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin and Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova

Today, 17 March 2023, Pre-Trial Chamber II of the International Criminal Court (“ICC” or “the Court”) issued warrants of arrest for two individuals in the context of the situation in Ukraine: Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin and Ms Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova. Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin...

www.icc-cpi.int

Pretty much a meaningless gesture but an interesting one.

It just means he can no longer leave Russia or its allies.

 

[mrttao]

It just means he can no longer leave Russia or its allies.

Like he could before?
Also, if the war does end. I would be shocked if they genuinely try to arrest him when he goes on a diplomatic mission.

Actually it is pretty stupid, as it makes any capitulation or surrender on his part bad. If he retires and the country gets extradition treaty he is fucked. So now he has 1 more reason to go nuclear. Good job idiots.

 

[Marduk]

Like he could before?
Also, if the war does end. I would be shocked if they genuinely try to arrest him when he goes on a diplomatic mission.

Actually it is pretty stupid, as it makes any capitulation or surrender on his part bad. If he retires and the country gets extradition treaty he is fucked. So now he has 1 more reason to go nuclear. Good job idiots.

Rumors are that he has already discussed potential retirement arrangements with China, Iran and North Korea already, many months ago.

 

[mrttao]

Rumors are that he has already discussed potential retirement arrangements with China, Iran and North Korea already, many months ago.

So this couldn't have come at a worst time. Reminding him that he will not be allowed to retire and has to fight to the death.
I don't want to see what a nuclear dictator does when given no way out

 

[Marduk]

So this couldn't have come at a worst time. Reminding him that he will not be allowed to retire and has to fight to the death.
I don't want to see what a nuclear dictator does when given no way out

Russia has land or sea borders with all 3 of these.

 

[Captain X]

So this couldn't have come at a worst time. Reminding him that he will not be allowed to retire and has to fight to the death.
I don't want to see what a nuclear dictator does when given no way out

Wow, there are maybe consequences for actions? World leaders can maybe suffer them, too?

 

[mrttao]

Wow, there are maybe consequences for actions? World leaders can maybe suffer them, too?

facepalm.
Just, I can't facepalm enough.

If he gets conquered or deposed?
They would have put him on trial anyways. Or public lynching.

This? what consequences does it give him?
All it does is give him a reminder that he should fight to the death, and take as many of us down with him.

That in case of a stalemate, retirement is not an option for him.
It is a court issuing a virtue signal that undermines its nation's ability to engage in diplomacy, while simultaneously advancing the doomclock on nuclear world war 3

 

[Captain X]

This? what consequences does it give him?
All it does is give him a reminder that he should fight to the death, and take as many of us down with him.

Or maybe to back the fuck off and rethink things.

That in case of a stalemate, retirement is not an option for him.
It is a court issuing a virtue signal that undermines its nation's ability to engage in diplomacy, while simultaneously advancing the doomclock on nuclear world war 3

OH TEH NOES! GUESS WE BETTER LET PUTIN/RUSSIA DO WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT! IF WE DON"T THEY MIGHT NUKE US!

Flail about harder.

 

[mrttao]

Or maybe to back the fuck off and rethink things.

Facepalm.
No, it is explicitly telling him he can't "back the fuck off".

That is the whole point.

OH TEH NOES! GUESS WE BETTER LET PUTIN/RUSSIA DO WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT! IF WE DON"T THEY MIGHT NUKE US!

Flail about harder.

When you make a pathetically stupid strawman, it makes you look bad.

 

[Captain X]

When you make a pathetically stupid strawman, it makes you look bad.

That's my line.

 

[mrttao]

That's my line.

Are you literally retarded? genuine question here?

I said that issuing a warrant for the arrest of putin is both stupid and pathetic on every possible level.
you strawmanned it as "mrttao says we should let putin do whatever he wants"

Meanwhile I have not made any strawman arguments.
Please show where I misrepresented anything you have said?

 

[Captain X]

Are you literally retarded? genuine question here?

Here'd be an example of that strawmanning that you claim to not do.

I said that issuing a warrant for the arrest of putin is both stupid and pathetic on every possible level.
you strawmanned it as "mrttao says we should let putin do whatever he wants"

Dude, all along you and others have been pulling out these asinine things that basically just serve as a means to argue against supporting Ukraine or try to appeal to the idea that Putin is somehow not our enemy in spite of the fact he has explicitly said that he is, and the thing is, that does amount to arguing that Russia should just be allowed to do whatever the fuck it wants. In this case, you are arguing in favor of what amounts to nuclear terrorism. Maybe you don't think of it that way, or maybe you are self-aware enough to know this and are just lying about it the way commies do when they claim "that wasn't real communism." Doesn't really matter, because that is what you're doing. Or are you not claiming that the fact Russia/Putin have nuclear weapons at their disposal means we should not take action against them for this naked attempt at conquest? I mean, I know I'm dealing with someone who thinks cultural genocide is not only okay, but something that should totally be done to people who are conquered (thus showing support of the act of conquering), but maybe, just maybe I have you wrong on that. What do you mean then by lamenting that Putin has nukes whenever even the least bit of virtue signalling is done against him or the nation he leads?

 

[Cherico]

Let's not escalate the proxy war into a nuclear war. The goal is a limited conflict that pushes Russia back into their national boundaries and bleed them bad enough that they don't do it again.

It's not the destruction of the Russian state or it's people it's to slap their hand hard enough that they decide that being the largest country on earth is enough for them.

 

[Captain X]

Let's not escalate the proxy war into a nuclear war. The goal is a limited conflict that pushes Russia back into their national boundaries and bleed them bad enough that they don't do it again.

It's not the destruction of the Russian state or it's people it's to slap their hand hard enough that they decide that being the largest country on earth is enough for them.

That is entirely up to Russia and has been all along. They started this, and they can end it, and all it will take is fucking off back to their own country and facing the music for what they did.