Hold on a second. Since when are moderators allowed to tell people they aren’t allowed to argue?! As far as I am aware, neither of them have broken any rules!
Military US Military Is Scared Americans Won't Fight For Globalism
- Thread starter Bassoe
- Start date
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
I think that is just his and maybe a few other mods' private positions. It is not in his "mod color" after all.
I can understand that, since both me and Papuga here tend to be pig headed and dopamine addicted assholes when we are in a fight. And I will confess, the sport of rhetoric combat is loads of fun, and these long, angry diatribes can make for fun reading, but it can also be tiring and annoying, probably especially for non-Slavs who have more filters than we do. TBH this whole discussion is kinds pointless, since I said my peace, but some people just can't give up due to hubris, and some others were not in the mood to be the bigger man after reading through a few standard neocuck distribes and seeing people they consider friends insulted and forced to "enjoy" rabid whataboutism and subject flip flopping. In any case, I have stopped taking many of these discussions and Marduk all that seriously.It is the internet, and he is probably an OK guy when he is not in muh west/USA cargo cult mode or Ree Russia mode.
Anyway, thinking about it, I might just mute this thread.
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Simonbob
Well-known member
So.
Not going to dive into the full argument, just going to add to this.
The entire Green movement was supported by Soviet and OPEC money, when they got going. The Catholic Church wasn't nearly as bad before the Soviet Union pushed gays and pedos into it, and they were deliberately chosen to screw it up. One of the first CIA Directors wives were Soviet agents, and a lot of State Dep guys, going back over 100 years were idological fellow travelers. US Uni's had a lot of Soviet/Chinese money poured in, and that was used to screw them up.
The US's problems are at least partly from that set of infiltrations.
Agent23
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And here we can add a bunch of US companies that drill for oil, too.
Not to mention that much of the leftism in US academia started with the Frankfurt school and some other degenerates getting yeeted out of Germany, as well as scum like Jean-Paul Sartre - Wikipedia, and the fabian scum and other morons.
The "intiliekshul" classes lap this progressive, centrally planned utopian nonsense up because they think humans can be improved and managed into utopia, there is a reason why Raymond Aron calls the marxist/socialist dreck the opium of the intellectuals.
No, the leftist conquest of academia came long before than in the US. You see, in the US the majority of elite colleges were actually religious institutions founded by various Christian Churches.
In the late 19th and early 20th century you saw the rise of a group of "intellectuals" in the Protestant Churches known as the "Modernists". These individuals wanted to "Modernize" Church teachings and bring it into accord with what at the time was modern science, archeology, and history thought was true. Suffice to say, since all those were completely "materialist" and they arbitrarily ruled that the Bible didn't count as an ancient text, they'd "discovered" that all the Bible was mythical, that Jesus wasn't a historic person*, and that those who held to the Bible being literally true were unscientific and didn't deserve to be part of the academy. Thus they staged a systemic purge of the academies and leadership of mainline Protestant academia and senior Church leadership of those who did not believe as them.
What this ended up doing was purging actual religion from the American academy and replaced it with materialism and philosophy. When Marxism made it's way to the US, it found fertile ground in the academy since, well, Marxism appeals to those who have no religion while promising heaven on earth.
All this happened in the 1920s and 1930s. The reason this took so long to have an impact is that prior to the 1960s college was really only for people going for certain specific elite jobs like medical doctors or high level science where you needed that extensive intellectual training. Even lawyers in the US were as much a trade as an academic field, with many states not requiring college degrees to sit the bar exam, being able to instead learn the law via apprenticeship. It wasn't until the 1960s and the Baby Boom generation that you began to see college as a more normal and expected thing for people to do as part of their career path, and, obviously, it is with that same generation you begin to see things go wrong. At the same time in the 1940s and 50s you did see that communist infiltration get underway.
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* Note, this is a position that is no longer taken seriously by secular scholars, the vast majority now agree that Jesus was a historical person in the 1st Century AD, existed and taught, and that those teachings were then used to found what became historical Christianity. Further, many parts of the Bible have since been verified by further archeological findings, including many parts of the Old Testament. Before you buy into that these late 19th and early 20th century "scholars" were right, remember that these were the same people who thought phrenology was an accurate measure of people's intelligence and capability and basically assumed all surviving ancient stories were mythical in nature, IE, they were the ones who decided Troy didn't exist. Pretty much all archeological assumptions of the period have since been overturned, and most modern scholars are in more agreement with scholars from BEFORE this period about ancient times and the historicity of things (pre this period people accepted those ancient texts, including the Bible, were at least broad strokes accurate, if perhaps embellished for drama) than that are in agreement with these scholars. These same scholars are also those who just made up vast swaths of historical theory like the pan-European witch cult hypothesis which has since been thoroughly discredited, and also made up Wicca pretty much whole cloth as a "recreation" of pre-Christian Celtic religion and, well, it has absolutely nothing in common with those traditions. Basically, scholars of this period literally attempted to rewrite history by rejecting the preserved traditions because they believed themselves to be more "Scientific" than previous people and basically got everything wrong because of it... It would be hilarious in hindsight if they hadn't done so much social damage...
I'm very much not doing this as a mod. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. No mod voice = no mod power. This is just a user who's sick of hearing the constant yelling.
Not to get too off topic here, but yes. I'm an atheist, and nothing annoys me more than an atheist who denies that historical Jesus exists. It's just dumb at this point. We have a lot of evidence he existed, way more than we do for other famous people of the time.
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
I think it's this kind of mindset that has practically screwed future generations with student debts being the norm for putting yourself through this kind of higher learning. It has also exasperated the social divide between the educated elites that went through college and university and the ones that didn't go to the same institutions and ended up working. The dropouts and the I-never-went-to-college crowd usually end up in blue collar jobs that are physically and mentally draining.
Simonbob
Well-known member
Sometimes, yes. Most, even.
Very different mindsets. One is about "Patterns of the Mind are how the Universe Works (Reality need not apply)" and the other is "Does it work? Ok, it works."
The Uni crowd sometimes comes up with genuinely revoutionary improvements, and the Blue Collar crowd can make incramental advancements instead.
Bringing this back to the US military, officers are all going through Uni, and that means less practical skills. That's going to be a problem, whenever they need to deal with real conflict.
Officers go through uni ues but also have to learn thier job after they graduate, but also in thier ROTC programs or OCS or military schools, will go through a lot of the same kind of things enlisted go through.
Just over longer periods of time and not back to back to back.
Enlisted also get free college up to if not more then a bachelor's if they are smart.
Which I can tie in with the whole student loan thing.
Join the army and get free college
Simonbob
Well-known member
..... That's likely to make them worse at their real job.
A grunt needs to be practical first. First, it has to work, or they'll just die.
Bad idea, all round.
What?
That isn't how it works at all.
A grunt needs to be able to think on thier feet as well.
College is not required for a grunt.
Grunts are also some of the smartest people in the Army.
They have to be.
Going to school as a soldier means online classes you do.
Your career takes precedence when in the field or deployed and doing your actual job.
College is allowed because it allows soldiers to get jobs outside
Simonbob
Well-known member
Yes, but Uni isn't for that. It's for heavy theory stuff.
Grunt's should be about the practical, not the theory.
That's all I mean on this.
You can be practical.
Do you think grunts are vetting physics degrees and the like?
Most don't use college, those that do go into fields to help them not be homeless vets outside.
Like business degrees and such
You want to know what's really fucked up?
For Boomers and GenX, college was actually affordable, costs were not that extravagant and you could either work part time to pay for most of your college OR if you took some loans out you would generally get a job that allowed you to pay back those loans; however, these loans were typically cosigned by parents, were dischargeable in bankruptcy, and much more like a modern private bank loan.
What happened is that this was SO successful for people who went through this system that the government got it into it's head that it would be better if EVERYONE went to college, and began doing things to make college EVEN MORE AFFORDABLE by doing things like setting up massive scholarship programs as well as creating government backed debt. This ended up flooding the college system with money they, in many respects, had no idea about but ALSO flooded the system with people who were there just to go through the motions because they HAD to. Which is why you ALSO so a sudden mass increase of "X Studies" programs, it wasn't just ideological in nature, colleges needed some sort of courses for people who just wanted to get through college and weren't there to be academically challenged or who KNEW what they were there for and to study*. So all these general highly generic studies fields began popping up for folks who were going through the motions.
And where did all this come to a head? For Millennials, who's parents, mainly Boomers, not only had the personal experience knowing and/or seeking the advantages a college degree provided**, but also were constantly being told by experts that's what their children should be being prepared for or they were bad parents. What nobody had really realized at the time was both that like all forms of goods, if you increased the supply of college degrees, their value dropped, but also that the colleges were creating cruff degrees to allow them to churn out graduates who in prior decades would have washed out or never entered college to begin with.
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* The reason they created all these new "studies" programs is also because the existing more general degree fields like English actually require a skill that you'd be surprised is severely lacking amount the general population: writing. Getting an English degree involves a LOT of writing and it MUST be consistently high quality and follow all of English's crazy ass grammar and punctuation rules. Yes, even English Literature degrees require stupid amounts of writing that needs to be coherent.
** Take my father for instance, a Boomer, he was a major subject matter expert in his career field of satellite telecommunication engineering, had more experience and knowledge than many other people in multiple corporations he worked for... and because he LACKED a college degree he was never promoted past a certain point, never allowed to enter senior management, and basically plateaued in his career even though he knew more and had more experience than many senior managers above him. While I was growing up he regularly bemoaned this and so... made sure all his children had the opportunity to go to college so they'd never face that bullshit like he did.
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
Not to mention the obsession with going to college is even stronger with children from visible minorities as well, but Asia is guilty of pushing the whole go to college obsession to an insane degree. Heck, cram schools actually exist to prepare students for college life, and the stress sometimes kills them.
What we really need is to lower our obsession with going to college and increase the need for not only trades people, but to ditch the whole obsession that only a college degree can put you on a successful path. Colleges are only there to turn you into a future debt slave.
What we really need is to lower our obsession with going to college and increase the need for not only trades people, but to ditch the whole obsession that only a college degree can put you on a successful path. Colleges are only there to turn you into a future debt slave.
Vyor
My influence grows!
No they aren't, they exist for esoteric fields that require an extremely deep understanding of to be successful in.
You can't just pick up a book and become an expert in, say, Computer System Architecture.
Simonbob
Well-known member
That's why they should exist, and sometimes that's what they're covering.
But, that's not all they do. And the rest is not nearly so useful.
So,Deep state fucked USA,so we should gave world to China becouse of that?
Interesting logic,but....WHY NOT KICK BOTH DEEP STATE AND CHINA ?
Becouse giving world to China do not change fact,that you would be still owned by deep state.Which befriend China,by the way.
Agent23
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Depends on where they are and what intellectual tradition they come out of.
Anglo-Saxon universities, and most universities before that, really, were created to produce clergy and give spoiled rich dilettantes "polish".
French and German institutions of higher learning were meant to churn out engineers, other technologists and civil servants.
See Grande Ecole and Research university.
Sadly the soft science slime has spread to technical fiends and admissions and administration.
Yes, but the majority of "university required" jobs nowadays are soft science bullshit and "lighter" stem jobs like programming and operations.
You will not be able to understand how a CPU is built from a single book, but 2-3 books and some online courses are more than enough to make you an OK dev or QA with some practice.
A lot of developers and have I have dealt with came out of other fields and moved to tech jobs after going to some bootcamp, non-Uni academy or programming dojo like Telerik and Курсове и уроци по програмиране - Софтуерен университет or got on the job training and developed themselves.
Frankly, no more than 20% of people actually need university training and for the rest it is a waste of time, and a waste of time for society as a whole.
4 years in university just to go work for Starbucks is 4 years of wasted tuition, housing and time you are not spending in building net worth and learning actually useful job skills and building up nest egg or saving up for a first home, and them going out with debts is even worse.
University degrees have turned into a veblen good/status symbol/get in the door useless paper for the most part and they are contributing to both the oversupply of "elites" and the loss of productivity and over-indebtedness of western populations, for a lot of people those are their prime reproductive years, too, thus it contributes to the demographics decline.