Russian-Ukrainian-Polish Eternal Friendship Thread

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Okay, great, but what if he decides to pull a Baghdad Bob and claim “there are no American Russian troops anywhere near Baghdad Kyiv!” during live news coverage while there are such troops in the background waving at the cameras?

I get that you’re distrustful of Western media but at some point you have to be honest and recognize that the guy you want to believe may in fact not be telling the truth or is not playing with a full deck.
If Zelensky tries to pull Baghdad Bob bullshit, in the event of an actual invasion, that will just prove why we should have gone hands off on Ukraine to begin with.

“Either the U.S. and its allies genuinely believe shit is going down in the very near future or they don’t because of political concerns” is rather asinine statement. And I’d point out that this belief of an invasion in early 2022 (that is, the present) is something that’s been predicted pretty consistently across the board. They aren’t saying they want it to happen (quite the opposite, in fact) but they think it will.

Not to mention I think you seriously overestimate how any sort of ability to defuse the situation would be in helping poll numbers. Even with things getting tense, inflation, the economy, and stupid COVID restrictions are far bigger concerns than “Hey we managed to convince Russia not to invade Ukraine” though that isn’t just a U.S. thing and it’s as much that we finally got around to shipping a crapload of weapons to the Ukrainians.
Maybe, but everything I've seen so far make me feel this is more likely a giant 'wag the dog' psyops to help shore up Biden and other Western politicains (Macron up for election soon) way to try to distract from thier unjustifiable, yet continuing, Wu Flu bullshit.

Also, the CCP has asked Putin to not do anything while the Olympics are going on, and given how close Russia and the CCP are these days, I think that request carries real weight and may help deter things escalating in a way the West would have a hard time matching.
 

Airedale260

Well-known member
If Zelensky tries to pull Baghdad Bob bullshit, in the event of an actual invasion, that will just prove why we should have gone hands off on Ukraine to begin with.

Why, because it would mean that “the lying Western media” was telling the truth about a potential invasion while the parties you preferred to believe were the lying?

It’s not in America’s or Europe’s interests to allow other independent states to be bullied by larger ones. That kind of thinking makes wars of aggression more likely rather than less,

As for going “Hands off”, as much as I don’t like Biden he made the right call in making sure that Ukraine got the weapons systems and the training it had been requesting since Obama was in office, while working with the British to prepare seizure of assets lists against major oligarchs in Russia. Meanwhile, the French have tried playing “the big broker” in Europe and that has rather hilariously failed and in fact their prior efforts contributed to the current crisis because the Obama administration didn’t care enough to get involved, and the Germans have pretty clearly indicated they only care about themselves and rdfuse

Maybe, but everything I've seen so far make me feel this is more likely a giant 'wag the dog' psyops to help shore up Biden and other Western politicains (Macron up for election soon) way to try to distract from thier unjustifiable, yet continuing, Wu Flu bullshit.

Also, the CCP has asked Putin to not do anything while the Olympics are going on, and given how close Russia and the CCP are these days, I think that request carries real weight and may help deter things escalating in a way the West would have a hard time matching.

And yet five days ago you said:

It's also probably a large part of why Germany and France are trying to deescalate the situation with Russia and the Ukraine by having talks without the US, and thus the US's domestic shitshow, being able to directly influence the talks.

At this point I trust Paris and Berlin to handle this situation more maturely and calmly than DC can, or wants to.

While I’m sure they’d all prefer to distract from their ongoing failures over COVID (and side note, I am also extremely fed up with the continuing insanity), not everything they do is politically calculated to boost their ratings. I get why you might be paranoid about this, but the realities of why this is such a big deal are far more complex than some temporary bump in approval ratings that’ll get torpedoed the next time economic news comes out.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Why, because it would mean that “the lying Western media” was telling the truth about a potential invasion while the parties you preferred to believe were the lying?
It would show that even the 'good guys' in Ukraine are not to be trusted.

It’s not in America’s or Europe’s interests to allow other independent states to be bullied by larger ones. That kind of thinking makes wars of aggression more likely rather than less,
To be blunt, so fucking what?

America should not be the world police, we should be going for a more Monroe Doctrine 2.0, and not making the fate of every crapsack, corruption-ridden, or 3rd world nation our problem.

As long as our nuclear triad is secure, and our coasts protected, we don't actually need much more in terms of military forces or commitments. Let other nations pick up the slack in their own security, instead of relying on the US military and US taxpayer to foot the cost.
As for going “Hands off”, as much as I don’t like Biden he made the right call in making sure that Ukraine got the weapons systems and the training it had been requesting since Obama was in office, while working with the British to prepare seizure of assets lists against major oligarchs in Russia. Meanwhile, the French have tried playing “the big broker” in Europe and that has rather hilariously failed and in fact their prior efforts contributed to the current crisis because the Obama administration didn’t care enough to get involved, and the Germans have pretty clearly indicated they only care about themselves and rdfuse
I am ok with selling Ukraine weapons, I am not ok anything beyond that, in terms of US interference/intervention in that situation.

And yet five days ago you said:



While I’m sure they’d all prefer to distract from their ongoing failures over COVID (and side note, I am also extremely fed up with the continuing insanity), not everything they do is politically calculated to boost their ratings. I get why you might be paranoid about this, but the realities of why this is such a big deal are far more complex than some temporary bump in approval ratings that’ll get torpedoed the next time economic news comes out.
Maybe I am paranoid about that; however, given everything that has happened since 2016 with the Western media and politics, and how much worse it got after the Wu Flu started and the 2020 election was stolen, it is a reasonable paranoia.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
1.Łukashenko really tried to made contact with Poland,we always refused,and now he is Moscow puppet.Pity,we could made bussines together.

2.Russia is largest world country with nuclear weapons. If they demand buffer state they do so not becouse they feel afraid/what exactly?/ ,but becouse they wont invade Poland next.
I do not like Ukraine,but KGB-stan really do not look like reliable partner to any agreement - they would take what we gave them,and then come for rest.Becouse that is how they behawed after 2002.
And in the Russians' view they are bordering a massive blob of western enemies that includes people that despise them(Poland, Balts, UK, Sweden, USA) and that have a massive conventional army and military arsenal and have been expanding to their borders even though they were promised no such expansion would happen.

Yet somehow 74% are pro-Poland :D
Oh, really:
1) Got proof.
2) I am pro-Poland and pro-Russia(Shill GoG massively, cheer you on when you get into spats with the EU, own shares in your silver mines and GoG, one does not need to exclude the other, even though you papist bastards, fuck your mamas, tried to claim Raki was a type of "Wodka". :ROFLMAO:(NOTE for the ones who need trigger warnings/are thin of skin/do not understand Eastern slavic kultural kontext."Fuck your mama" is as widely used as "fuck", commonly is a way to end a sentence, really, like a fucking colon, in english and this is HUMOR!!!!)

No, Ukraine was a satellite state of Russia going off the leash too much lately.
Belarus is a more obedient one, on the way to an anschluss.

Yes, Lukashenko wanted to play both sides but only one side could effectively rein him in if he played boldly and it isn't us which guided how he played.
When you try to Maidan him and support his political opposition - guess what happens.


Forgot that Austria and Finland are in the EU and joined mid Cold War at that?

Dude, the EU was established in 1992 with the Maastricht treaty, and since then it has just grown and grown in power and control, also there was far less trade and travel liberalization and far more currency controls back then, as in during the Cold War.I know you poles alternately hate it and love to grift from it and use it as the dog while you take up the shape of the tail that it is being wagged by, but ffs, read up on some contemporary European history.
Also, it was originally created and supported by industrialists and rightwingers from France and Germany who saw the two major power blocks as detrimental to their mutual interests and who wanted to have a third option, that was the European Coal and steel community.
It went through several reincarnations before 1992 and the ever closer union bullcrap.
Then again, you probably read no one's history but your own, especially the grienvencemongering bits of it.
On 30 March 1994, accession negotiations concluded with Austria, Sweden and Finland.
94 was the height of the cold war, news to me!

Evolution_of_the_European_Union_SMIL.svg


EDIT: screenshotting this as svg doesn't embed properly:
Screenshot-2022-02-15-14-01-15.png


Forgot how Russia threw a fit when Ukraine under Yanukovych wanted a mere association agreement with EU, which started the chain of events leading to Maidan?
We have gone over this, again, and again, and again.
The association agreement would have meant no customs-free trade with Russia, which would have sunk a lot of their eastern industries and interfered with cultural ties and the like.
Then came in the likes of Right sector and the whole Euromeidan putch.
We are going in circles here, read what is already posted in the thread before you parrot the same old, tired nonsense.


If buffer states aren't spoils, why the fuck is everyone fighting so hard to get them?
Of course naturally no one cares about neutrality, they want... biased buffer states.

No, they are literally a political no man;s land without any affinity towards any of the power blocks that keep them as buffers.
Bilateral trade - maybe, but not a political or military alliance.



Sorry, you're not Spanish enough for an Inquisition larp.
Here is what we do with impudent pope fanbois invading our lands and their glorified secret police.
31a1354e53bc8329b6be8785ea50923b.jpg


Party like it is 1205!

Last time it was 7:1 and only because Boril was a fucking moron.
The Knights's honour and the fall of the Latin Empire

Word quickly spread around Europe of the defeat of the knights in the battle of Adrianople. Without a doubt, it was a great shock for the world at the time, due to the fact that the glory of the undefeatable knight army was known to everyone from those in rags to those in riches. Hearing that the knights, whose fame travelled far and wide, who had taken one of the largest cities at the time, Constantinople, the capital whose walls were rumoured to be unbreakable, was devastating for the Catholic world. Due to being stripped from their aureole, the knights were no longer viewed as a power one could not find a way to oppose. Only a year after the battle of Adrianople, a devastating blow was dealt to the Latin Empire, a wound that would lead to its ultimate demise.

The Kinghts' leader was then imprisoned in a tower, treated fairly and honored as per his station,the tower was even specially built for and named after him, but the French bastard decided to try and have some fun with our Tzar's wife, so the Tzar made him fly off his tower.
 
Last edited:

Batrix2070

RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
Here is what we do with impudent pope fanbois invading our lands and their glorified secret police.
All right, calm down, you damn Orthodox, we know you don't like the Pope, but you know what? We like him because he gave us peace from the Emperor. For you evil, for us hero, and Byzantium was already a corpse, that it fell so long is a miracle. For you maybe the Emperor Rhomanoi was cool, for us the Emperor Romanum was an annoying pipsqueak who wanted our lands and only the Pope could stop it effectively without a war every decade.

And the Inquisition was much better than commonly thought, without it there would never or maybe much later have been a court similar to modern ones.
And, instead of blaming the Pope for the Latins, blame the Doge of Venice, without him the whole affair and brawl would never have arisen. Besides, if it hadn't been for Isaac II and his promises to unite the churches with no cover, none of this would have happened. In fact, the biggest problem was the Emperors of Rhomanoi who time and again tried with this number to encourage the Pope to support them. No wonder then that the pissed off crusaders decided to do it once and for all and do it by force.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
Oh, really:
1) Got proof.
The fuck do i bother to include links to polls for, and even quote from them. Proof your ass.
Scroll up to my earlier post.
2) I am pro-Poland and pro-Russia(Shill GoG massively, cheer you on when you get into spats with the EU, own shares in your silver mines and GoG, one does not need to exclude the other, even though you papist bastards, fuck your mamas, tried to claim Raki was a type of "Wodka". :ROFLMAO:(NOTE for the ones who need trigger warnings/are thin of skin/do not understand Eastern slavic kultural kontext."Fuck your mama" is as widely used as "fuck", commonly is a way to end a sentence, really, like a fucking colon, in english and this is HUMOR!!!!)
When you try to Maidan him and support his political opposition - guess what happens.
When we didn't, we still got nothing, expect bad optics with trying. So the politicians started to try to at least virtue signal. That's my point here, in the end it boils down to the fact that Russia has the treaties, deals and political ability to go and keep him in his seat or yeet him out of it, no matter how anyone "plays the game with him" its about making that someone waste efforts and throw him some money pointlessly because he has to side with Russia anyway in the end.

Dude, the EU was established in 1992 with the Maastricht treaty, and since then it has just grown and grown in power and control, also there was far less trade and travel liberalization and far more currency controls back then, as in during the Cold War. know you poles alternately hate it and love to grift from it and use it as the dog while you take up the shape of the tail that it is being wagged by, but ffs, read up on some contemporary European history.
Yes, i know EU didn't exist under that name then, but they were in EFTA, aka "outer seven", nice job obsessing about technicalities, what an own, are you proud of yourself?

We have gone over this, again, and again, and again.
The association agreement would have meant no customs-free trade with Russia, which would have sunk a lot of their eastern industries and interfered with cultural ties and the like.
Oh my, Putin cares so much about Ukraine's economy!
What fucking customs-free trade? Free trade agreement doesn't mean customs free. Just like Switzerland has free trade and even open border with EU but still has customs.
The EU itself has free trade agreements with countries as exotic as Egypt, Mexico and Vietnam.
You know what's hilarious? Russia was part of a non imaginary customs union at the time...
And Ukraine was never in it!
So you stop parroting old, tired nonsense.
Yes, when Ukraine was pro-Russian there were talks about Ukraine joining. But it never happened in the end, so no one's industries could be reliant on it.

No, they are literally a political no man;s land without any affinity towards any of the power blocks that keep them as buffers.
Bilateral trade - maybe, but not a political or military alliance.
So what was that embargo spazzout from Russia about association agreement with the EU?
EU obviously has no political nor military alliance with most of these countries, in fact EU politicians can barely stand few of them.
Besides, as we can see from the historical ones, they were never without any affinity. Just no obvious alliance membership.
 
Last edited:

ATP

Well-known member
And in the Russians' view they are bordering a massive blob of western enemies that includes people that despise them(Poland, Balts, UK, Sweden, USA) and that have a massive conventional army and military arsenal and have been expanding to their borders even though they were promised no such expansion would happen.


Oh, really:
1) Got proof.
2) I am pro-Poland and pro-Russia(Shill GoG massively, cheer you on when you get into spats with the EU, own shares in your silver mines and GoG, one does not need to exclude the other, even though you papist bastards, fuck your mamas, tried to claim Raki was a type of "Wodka". :ROFLMAO:(NOTE for the ones who need trigger warnings/are thin of skin/do not understand Eastern slavic kultural kontext."Fuck your mama" is as widely used as "fuck", commonly is a way to end a sentence, really, like a fucking colon, in english and this is HUMOR!!!!)


When you try to Maidan him and support his political opposition - guess what happens.




Dude, the EU was established in 1992 with the Maastricht treaty, and since then it has just grown and grown in power and control, also there was far less trade and travel liberalization and far more currency controls back then, as in during the Cold War.I know you poles alternately hate it and love to grift from it and use it as the dog while you take up the shape of the tail that it is being wagged by, but ffs, read up on some contemporary European history.
Also, it was originally created and supported by industrialists and rightwingers from France and Germany who saw the two major power blocks as detrimental to their mutual interests and who wanted to have a third option, that was the European Coal and steel community.
It went through several reincarnations before 1992 and the ever closer union bullcrap.
Then again, you probably read no one's history but your own, especially the grienvencemongering bits of it.


94 was the height of the cold war, news to me!

Evolution_of_the_European_Union_SMIL.svg


EDIT: screenshotting this as svg doesn't embed properly:
Screenshot-2022-02-15-14-01-15.png



We have gone over this, again, and again, and again.
The association agreement would have meant no customs-free trade with Russia, which would have sunk a lot of their eastern industries and interfered with cultural ties and the like.
Then came in the likes of Right sector and the whole Euromeidan putch.
We are going in circles here, read what is already posted in the thread before you parrot the same old, tired nonsense.




No, they are literally a political no man;s land without any affinity towards any of the power blocks that keep them as buffers.
Bilateral trade - maybe, but not a political or military alliance.




Here is what we do with impudent pope fanbois invading our lands and their glorified secret police.
31a1354e53bc8329b6be8785ea50923b.jpg


Party like it is 1205!

Last time it was 7:1 and only because Boril was a fucking moron.



The Kinghts' leader was then imprisoned in a tower, treated fairly and honored as per his station,the tower was even specially built for and named after him, but the French bastard decided to try and have some fun with our Tzar's wife, so the Tzar made him fly off his tower.

So,KGB-stan could feel threatened by power of Baltic&polish armies,But we could not feel treathened by them? Who have H bombs and bigger country in the world ? we,or KGB ?
Rules are the same for everybody,if they feel bad,then how should feel we ?

And soviets promised honest election in Poland,Bulgary and other countries they taken.Remember what happened ? KGB-stan is ruled by soviets crying after genocider Sralin,so they have no right to talk about promises.

P.S I am pro-russian,too - that is why i wish them better then be ruled by KGB colonel.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
It seems like NATO doesnt even trust russias claims of withdrawing. From what I can find Russia Today is the one that started the whole withdrawal news. So....yeah
 

Batrix2070

RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
It seems like NATO doesnt even trust russias claims of withdrawing. From what I can find Russia Today is the one that started the whole withdrawal news. So....yeah
We are talking about a country whose standard modus operatii is maskirovka. And they are ruled by a former secret service agent of the USSR. You don't have to be a genius to be on guard with them all the time and watch the damn whackos on their hands. They're going to cut us a fucking deal, that's for sure.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder




So it seems Germany has had some success in reaching a prelim deal with Russia, that will formalize Ukraine's non-NATO status and focus the negoatiations on what is the reality on the ground, not a conflict over a question of Ukraine wanting into NATO.

Also, on the anniversary of of it's sinking, a reminder of what the US press has done before to 'wag the dog' in an effort to get the US into a war on false pretenses:
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
So it seems Germany has had some success in reaching a prelim deal with Russia, that will formalize Ukraine's non-NATO status and focus the negoatiations on what is the reality on the ground, not a conflict over a question of Ukraine wanting into NATO.
We all know Putin is going for much more than just Ukraine not being in NATO here, and we know Germany is under duress in this situation (Nordstream 2) while not having standing to make a decision for whole NATO.
Of course Putin will gladly take any signs of weakness, withdrawal and acquiescence from NATO side, even if purely symbolic ones.
Note that your sources do not provide any information of what concessions will Russia make in return.
Even if such a deal was made properly, it would not end this mess, just provide a much desired milestone in Russia's efforts to drag Ukraine back under its influence.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
The fuck do i bother to include links to polls for, and even quote from them. Proof your ass.
Scroll up to my earlier post.
Dude, the 60% approval is what I got of one of your links.And the Pole/EU approval was about 40% in the same one.
There is a huge difference between liking some group as a people and agreeing and wanting to be aligned with their country.
Ask George F. Kennan what his views on the Russian people and the Soviet State were, for example. ;)



Yes, i know EU didn't exist under that name then, buthey were in EFTA, aka "outer seven", nice job obsessing about technicalities, what an own, are you proud of yourself?
You are the one trying to build strawmen here, bub, you know and I do that the EFTA was a very different beast from the current EU and that the current EU is not NATO, and that the EFTA countries were not in a free trade zone with the USSR.
Go read what I actually wrote about trade, although you are probably just disregarding it because you think that this childish sand throwing and brevado will get you away with it.
Your selective amnesia is a joke.



Oh my, Putin cares so much about Ukraine's economy!
What fucking customs-free trade? Free trade agreement doesn't mean customs free. Just like Switzerland has free trade and even open border with EU but still has customs.
The EU itself has free trade agreements with countries as exotic as Egypt, Mexico and Vietnam.
You know what's hilarious? Russia was part of a non imaginary customs union at the time...
And Ukraine was never in it!
So you stop parroting old, tired nonsense.
Pole, for the umpteenth time, we are talking about the Free Trade Zone Between Russia and Ukraine stop strawmaning.
Although Ukraine was one of the three founding countries and ratified the Creation Agreement in December 1991, Ukraine did not choose to ratify the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) Charter. In 1993 Ukraine became an “Associate Member” of CIS. Ukraine has signed Free Trade Agreements (FTA) with nine CIS countries: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Russia. Since the purported annexation of Crimea by Russia in 2014, Ukraine has been gradually withdrawing from CIS agreements, although its FTAs with CIS countries remain formally effective, except for the one with Russia. On December 16, 2015 Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree suspending the free trade zone with Ukraine from January 1, 2016, the date the DCFTA entered into force. FTA with Russia was in effect since February 21, 1994.

A free-trade zone (FTZ) is a class of special economic zone.[1][2] It is a geographic area where goods may be imported, stored, handled, manufactured, or reconfigured and re-exported under specific customs regulation and generally not subject to customs duty. Free trade zones are generally organized around major seaports, international airports, and national frontiers—areas with many geographic advantages for trade.



We all know Putin is going for much more than just Ukraine not being in NATO here, and we know Germany is under duress in this situation (Nordstream 2) while not having standing to make a decision for whole NATO.
Of course Putin will gladly take any signs of weakness, withdrawal and acquiescence from NATO side, even if purely symbolic ones.
Note that your sources do not provide any information of what concessions will Russia make in return.
Even if such a deal was made properly, it would not end this mess, just provide a much desired milestone in Russia's efforts to drag Ukraine back under its influence.
How do you "know" any of that exactly?
Did Smegly or Brezinsky's ghosts tell you?

If the Germans thought that they could get gas cheaper and were that worried about dependence on Russia, do you think that they wouldn't have built a bunch of LNG terminals already?

Do you really think you are smarter than the whole German business lobby, and all of the people working for, say Krupp, and Volkswagen and BASF and dozens more manufacturing giants?

Russia doesn't even need nordstream, they will soon have 3 pipelines to China and numerous LNG facilities operating in Asia, NS2 was something the Krauts asked for it.
E.ON, Germany's biggest energy company was the one pushing it because it would be the cheapest possible way to get gas and they stated that Europe would need more and more gas in the future.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Top