Ukraine vs Fallout Pre-War America

Scooby Doo said:
And?

That seems a liiiittle bit disingenuous considering Obsidian isn't likely to get the IP back and you're disregarding the current canon that confirms it.

Can't say it hasn't been confirmed when it literally is
:p

C'mon think narratively why would they mention the potential of China creating their own power armor If China couldn't?

The intent is pretty clear it's with in their ability even if you wanted to ignore the very canon Fallout 76 lore 😬
Click to expand...
Not saying china 'couldn't', but there's no evidence they ever did, let alone bring any to the US.

I simply won't accept anything post-NV in fallout's series.
 
Scooby Doo said:
Sure there's no evidence but I think narrative intent is enough to suggest they could.
Click to expand...
The thing is that power armor was designed for a very specific purpose.
1: Improved protection for the relatively outnumbered American forces. China does not need this requirement as they have endless hordes
2: Environmental protection from radiation. Well gas masks exist, and who cares of Private Chang dies after fighting a couple weeks in the radiation zones? He was going to cop it the next day anyways
3: Countering armor. You have to be a fucking beefcake to handle plasma rifles, rocket launchers, heavy weapons etc. Power armor allows any average joe to pick up a weapon that'll rip a Chinese armored vehicle to shreds. China had the gauss rifle which supplies similar levels of firepower in a man-portable package

Power armor is not thematically consistent with the portrayal of Chinese forces in-universe, the intention of power armor is basically a translation of full-plate armor in fantasy RPG's like DnD and such. Why would the 'vile orcs across the sea' be using shiny silver armor???
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
Nah, there's some in FO3 too, they're ghoulified too.
Click to expand...
Meh, forgot about that, which quest was it, again?

I do think I recall there was some AK knockoff you could getz but I thought they was from the VR reenactment of the Anchoridge campaign.


Also, regarding your earliest comment about those satellite launched mini nukes, well, I don't think they were as powerful as 90 tons of TNT apiece.

Maybe the "boosting" isotopes in them reaches the end of their half life and deteriorated.
 
Agent23 said:
Meh, forgot about that, which quest was it, again?

I do think I recall there was some AK knockoff you could getz but I thought they was from the VR reenactment of the Anchoridge campaign.


Also, regarding your earliest comment about those satellite launched mini nukes, well, I don't think they were as powerful as 90 tons of TNT apiece.

Maybe the "boosting" isotopes in them reaches the end of their half life and deteriorated.
Click to expand...
I dunno if it was a quest, more of just an interesting location. It's a cannery full of Chinese infiltrators who ghoulified.
And yup! FO3 has the Chinese Assault Rifle, which is a mishmash of RPD and AK parts, I actually quite like it.

Also did I mention the estimate of the satellite bombs? They sure as heck aren't 90 tons a piece lmao. I'd say maybe more like a ton of HE each? Optimistically?
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
I dunno if it was a quest, more of just an interesting location. It's a cannery full of Chinese infiltrators who ghoulified.
And yup! FO3 has the Chinese Assault Rifle, which is a mishmash of RPD and AK parts, I actually quite like it.

Also did I mention the estimate of the satellite bombs? They sure as heck aren't 90 tons a piece lmao. I'd say maybe more like a ton of HE each? Optimistically?
Click to expand...
Taking out a nice big juicy target like Prime might be doable for the Ukies, then.

Which reminds me, let us ask one of our experts.

@Marduk ела, че ми требеш!

:ROFLMAO:

Seriously, not being offensive or antagonistic here, I just want to hear what you might think on the subject.

So, that Grum missile they have and thst is a ripoff of the Iskender/upgraded Tochka or whatever?

Can it hit Prime?

What about rocket artillery?

I'd assume that something that hits the target directly and detonates after does more damage than an air burst, or did those warheads in FO3 explode upon contact?

Do any Ukrainian rocker artillery missiles have shaped charges or are capable of piercing heavy armor.

Also, we have not discussed tanks.
 
Honestly 120mm APFSDS has way more penetration than anything in Fallout, I reckon it can pierce Liberty Prime.
Heavy armored vehicles in general are kinda rare in Fallout because, well, they drank oil. And guess what they ran out of? Sure you can make nuclear versions but now your armed forces are glorified bombs running around.
 
Agent23 said:
Taking out a nice big juicy target like Prime might be doable for the Ukies, then.

Which reminds me, let us ask one of our experts.

@Marduk ела, че ми требеш!

:ROFLMAO:

Seriously, not being offensive or antagonistic here, I just want to hear what you might think on the subject.

So, that Grum missile they have and thst is a ripoff of the Iskender/upgraded Tochka or whatever?

Can it hit Prime?

What about rocket artillery?

I'd assume that something that hits the target directly and detonates after does more damage than an air burst, or did those warheads in FO3 explode upon contact?

Do any Ukrainian rocker artillery missiles have shaped charges or are capable of piercing heavy armor.

Also, we have not discussed tanks.
Click to expand...
Tanks would be one option, capitalizing on the classic mech armor thickness problem.
Also, all major countries, including Ukraine, already have large missiles specifically designed to hit mobile vehicles far larger and more resilient to damage than tanks. They usually come with active radar guidance, or some sort of combined radar/IR.
Those are known as anti ship missiles. And imagine the radar signature of that thing...
Probably easier than trying to get direct hits with artillery, which is also an option.

Hrim-2 and similar missiles is a wrong tool for the job unless it's parked as they don't track targets, they are targeted at a location.
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
Honestly 120mm APFSDS has way more penetration than anything in Fallout, I reckon it can pierce Liberty Prime.
Heavy armored vehicles in general are kinda rare in Fallout because, well, they drank oil. And guess what they ran out of? Sure you can make nuclear versions but now your armed forces are glorified bombs running around.
Click to expand...
Nah man, Prime 100% took at least 90 tons of TNT barrage equivalent even ignoring the fact Mini Nukes are supposed to be more powerful than Davey Crocketts.


The visuals have the explosion of one micro missile completely engulf and surpass the height of Prime
Snip-it_17111955553893.jpg

The fire ball engulfs him completely, Prime is 12.19 meters tall.

Nuclear Fireball Calculator | Nuclear Weapons Education Project
For 0.010 kilotons (10 tons of TNT) the fire ball radius and height are all below Prime's measurements.
I don't even think 120 mm armor piercing should take him down (At least not in one shot) if we acknowledge that he was designed to liberate Alaska so he was likely intended to deal with
Mec Gauss Minimum (If you take Fallout Tactics as Semi Canon)
MEC Gauss minigun
The MEC Gauss is of Chinese design. It uses multiple electromagnetic fields to propel over 90,000 rounds per minute to relativistic velocities.
Click to expand...

There was the regular Gauss Rifle which would have been produced in vast amounts And were definitely deployed in Anchorage along with other heavy weapons (Missile Launchers)
images



And if you want to be real technical they also had access to massive artillery emplacements

The 100+ Mega Joules shells of the Anchorage Guns which were real
X-7a_Left_Field_Artillery_Launch.jpg

FO3_Op_Anch_location_12.jpg

Lone Wanderer: "Tell me how you were captured by these aliens."
Elliott Tercorien: "Well, it was getting dark... we had spent the day out in the trenches keeping as many of the guys alive as we could. Chinese had been pounding on us all day with artillery from these huge guns they had up on the mountains. It was really a mess.
Click to expand...


So Prime should have been designed in mind to be extremely resilient and the fact it took 90 tons of TNT and Micro Nuclear Missiles should be evident enough that it won't be easy to take him down imo.
 
Last edited:
Marduk said:
Tanks would be one option, capitalizing on the classic mech armor thickness problem.
Also, all major countries, including Ukraine, already have large missiles specifically designed to hit mobile vehicles far larger and more resilient to damage than tanks. They usually come with active radar guidance, or some sort of combined radar/IR.
Those are known as anti ship missiles. And imagine the radar signature of that thing...
Probably easier than trying to get direct hits with artillery, which is also an option.

Hrim-2 and similar missiles is a wrong tool for the job unless it's parked as they don't track targets, they are targeted at a location.
Click to expand...
Dziękuję Polaku.
 
Scooby Doo said:
Nah man, Prime 100% took at least 90 tons of TNT barrage equivalent even ignoring the fact Mini Nukes are supposed to be more powerful than Davey Crocketts.


The visuals have the explosion of one micro missile completely engulf and surpass the height of Prime
Snip-it_17111955553893.jpg

The fire ball engulfs him completely, Prime is 12.19 meters tall.

Nuclear Fireball Calculator | Nuclear Weapons Education Project
For 0.010 kilotons (10 tons of TNT) the fire ball radius and height are all below Prime's measurements.
Click to expand...
Mmm you might be right, they are pretty big fireballs. But to be fair they also turned him into scrap metal. It's entirely believable that 120mm APFSDS to the knees would cripple him within a couple shots, his design doesn't scream 'competently built' by modern standards.
Scooby Doo said:
I don't even think 120 mm armor piercing should take him down (At least not in one shot) if we acknowledge that he was designed to liberate Alaska so he was likely intended to deal with
Mec Gauss Minimum (If you take Fallout Tactics as Semi Canon)
MEC Gauss minigun


There was the regular Gauss Rifle which would have been produced in vast amounts And were definitely deployed in Anchorage along with other heavy weapons (Missile Launchers)
images
Click to expand...
Gauss guns are strong but nowhere near 120mm levels of penetration, they punch through power armor like it was nothing, but their actual damage is a bit higher than .50. More like 14.5mm levels of dakka handheld. Which is frightening for how lightweight they are.
Scooby Doo said:
And if you want to be real technical they also had access to massive artillery emplacements

The 100+ Mega Joules shells of the Anchorage Guns which were real
X-7a_Left_Field_Artillery_Launch.jpg

FO3_Op_Anch_location_12.jpg




So Prime should have been designed in mind to be extremely resilient and the fact it took 90 tons of TNT and Micro Nuclear Missiles should be evident enough that it won't be easy to take him down imo.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah those shells probably could've blown him to pieces too, they're immense, sheer kinetic impact alone would not go well, let alone the payload. But Prime was never actually used in combat, and never faced these threats.
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
Mmm you might be right, they are pretty big fireballs. But to be fair they also turned him into scrap metal. It's entirely believable that 120mm APFSDS to the knees would cripple him within a couple shots, his design doesn't scream 'competently built' by modern standards.
Click to expand...
Yeah no that's fine I'm sure targeting his joints could incapacitate him but Prime's kinda smart too he could scan the threat and just beam the tank with a relativistic beam and kill the tank before it kills him.
MTG_Dispatch_art_crop.png

(Canon artwork of the beam in action btw)
ThatZenoGuy said:
Gauss guns are strong but nowhere near 120mm levels of penetration, they punch through power armor like it was nothing, but their actual damage is a bit higher than .50. More like 14.5mm levels of dakka handheld. Which is frightening for how lightweight they are.
Click to expand...
Yeah but at the same time if you have dozens of Chinese with that gun focusing firing him along with missiles I feel like they'd take Prime down through Chip damage if a single 120mm shell can kill him.
ThatZenoGuy said:
Oh yeah those shells probably could've blown him to pieces too, they're immense, sheer kinetic impact alone would not go well, let alone the payload. But Prime was never actually used in combat, and never faced these threats.
Click to expand...
Doubtful the Chinese had control over those guns apparently for a considerable amount of time, Prime was designed to single handedly win the war.
  1. ↑ Liberty Prime: "Designation: Liberty Prime Mark II. Mission: The liberation of Anchorage, Alaska."
    (Liberty Prime's dialogue)
  2. ↑ Jump up to:2.0 2.1 2.2 Citadel terminal entries; Liberty Prime Operation, Project Summary
  3. ↑ Citadel terminal entries; Liberty Prime Operation, Capital Post Article -- June 3, 2072
  4. ↑ Citadel terminal entries; Liberty Prime Operation, Letter: Dr. Bloomfeld to Gen. Chase
  5. ↑ Lone Wanderer: "Who built Liberty Prime? Or better yet... why?"
    Scribe Rothchild: "He was developed as a super weapon, back in the days before the war. The first joint operation between RobCo and General Atomics International. Apparently, he was meant to help liberate Alaska from the Chinese,
Click to expand...

The Battle of Anchorage lasted 11 years, it's gonna to be mind boggling stupid to create a Super Weapon that would be taken out by a single 120mm shell, this Machine was Co Created with Robert House.


It's very likely it would have been designed to withstand tremendous punishment and ordinance in Anchorage since Prime doesn't have any other defensive measures other than tanking and alpha striking.
 
Scooby Doo said:
Yeah no that's fine I'm sure targeting his joints could incapacitate him but Prime's kinda smart too he could scan the threat and just beam the tank with a relativistic beam and kill the tank before it kills him.
MTG_Dispatch_art_crop.png

(Canon artwork of the beam in action btw)
Click to expand...
Canonically he never fights anything much further away than like 100m, tanks can engage at 1.5km with ease. Even if he HAS a lightspeed laser weapon, doesn't mean he can actually use it that far, also many weapons with HEAT warheads can be non-line-of-sight.
Scooby Doo said:
Yeah but at the same time if you have dozens of Chinese with that gun focusing firing him along with missiles I feel like they'd take Prime down through Chip damage if a single 120mm shell can kill him.
Click to expand...
To be fair, it's very well possible the Chinese could've taken him down, as US hubris assumed 'giant stompy robot of death cannot be defeated by slant eye yellow commie bastards!', which...Is so damned silly even for Fallout-verse lmao.

Scooby Doo said:
Doubtful the Chinese had control over those guns apparently for a considerable amount of time, Prime was designed to single handedly win the war.


The Battle of Anchorage lasted 11 years, it's gonna to be mind boggling stupid to create a Super Weapon that would be taken out by a single 120mm shell, this Machine was Co Created with Robert House.


It's very likely it would have been designed to withstand tremendous punishment and ordinance in Anchorage since Prime doesn't have any other defensive measures other than tanking and alpha striking.
Click to expand...
Liberty prime canonically was kinda a shit superweapon on account of it not actually working, the power source it needed simply did not exist until post-war scientists made one up.
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
Canonically he never fights anything much further away than like 100m, tanks can engage at 1.5km with ease. Even if he HAS a lightspeed laser weapon, doesn't mean he can actually use it that far, also many weapons with HEAT warheads can be non-line-of-sight.
Click to expand...
Canonically he never had to engage something more than 100m away but we do know his sensors allow him to detect incoming projectiles from orbit so there's no reason he couldn't engage things at that distance if he can detect things at that range.

Ingram also says that the lasers can already engage targets from "hundreds" of yards away WITH pin point accuracy, meaning it can probably engage further with less accuracy
Ingram: "Prime has two weapon systems: his eye laser and his nuke pack. The eye laser can target a hostile from hundreds of yards out and take it down with pinpoint accuracy.
Click to expand...
Considering Prime fights mostly just infantry the targets are likely man sized so shooting large ass tanks should only be moderately difficult.

And he also has an equivalent of GPS tracking
"Global positioning initialized. Location - the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Birthplace of American freedom."
Click to expand...

Then there's the fact the Ukranians are using the tanks at ranges visible to the naked eye


ThatZenoGuy said:
To be fair, it's very well possible the Chinese could've taken him down, as US hubris assumed 'giant stompy robot of death cannot be defeated by slant eye yellow commie bastards!', which...Is so damned silly even for Fallout-verse lmao.
Click to expand...
Except Robert House was involved, he wouldn't design something so easily crapped on. Dude has a reputation at stake and creating a shitty robot that gets blown up by a relatively common tank caliber would be a pretty obvious flaw.


ThatZenoGuy said:
Liberty prime canonically was kinda a shit superweapon on account of it not actually working, the power source it needed simply did not exist until post-war scientists made one up.
Click to expand...
False, the power source did exist it just wasn't calibrated properly it was an engineering issue that would have been fixed given enough time.
Reginald Rothchild: "Performance is exceeding all our expectations. He's been especially effective against the Enclave's Vertibirds, for which we previously had no counter. We're fine-tuning his programming as we go, but on the whole I'm pleasantly surprised. It's as I always suspected. Prime's real issue was energy management, and when Doctor Li helped us solve that problem, well, the rest was easy."
Click to expand...
 
@Husky_Khan Anyways I was thinking, the main hurdles Fallout America is going to have is the superior range and accuracy of Ukrainian air, artillery and anti air as FO America didn't really develop missile interception on a wide scale.

So initial ground forces are going to get stalled and have to

A) Burn through Ukrainian long ranged missiles and artillery at the cost of tremendous amounts of resources
B) Find a way to work around it


Canonically in Operation Anchorage we know that in order to get around long ranged artillery they deployed paratroopers to get in close and destroy it. So FO America may have to launch a massive Vertibird fleet after a barrage of their long ranged ballistic missiles (They had someone that could hit China from West Virginia)

If they used power armored troopers on the Vertibirds they can jump off from high altitudes with their jetpacks like mini paratroopers they can also send in a few waves of expendable Vertibots as chaff before the real main force deploys to take down the arty and other long ranged emplacements.
 
Scooby Doo said:
So it should take at minimum 90 tons of TNT or several MOAB's but it's likely much higher.
Click to expand...
Going off the visuals here, doesn't look remotely similar to even one MOAB:



Eyeballing it, looks roughly similar to a mortar round, maybe an artillery piece?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top