Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2

Marduk said:
Tell that to Russian "little green men" and Chinese navy militia.
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... he did?
he did not say "it is only stealing when america does it"
he literally arrgued it is stealing when govt does X. all govt.
that includes china and russia.
 
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mrttao said:
... he did?
he did not say "it is only stealing when america does it"
he literally arrgued it is stealing when govt does X. all govt.
that includes china and russia.
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In those places the government has nothing to "steal" that they could not take openly.
Let's get things straight, it may look stupid, but it works somewhat, so it's not so stupid.
 
Bassoe said:
Stealing taxpayer money to build redundant weaponry?
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Waging war on the USA and its allies indirectly because the CCP is too weak and chickenshit to do it directly. No matter how much they huff and puff and talk big about their military. China is even worse off than Russia. Their so called 5th Generation planes have Russian 4th Gen engines and knockoff Dutch and French avionics from 3.5 Gen planes. Columbian and Mexican Cartels are openly using Chinese banks to launder cash and buy Fentanyl precursors from state owned Chinese chemical corporations and shipping them into Mexico for cover businesses by the thousands of tons.
 
Marduk said:
I have no idea what weird word jujitsu you came up with this time...
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not doing any jujutsu at all, just trying to understand whatever weird thing you are saying. since I got it wrong let me try it again and slam my head into your word salad some more...
ok so, your phrasing was really weird. but I do think I got it wrong last time.

are you saying that, when the russian and chinese govt steal the money of their commoners, it is not "stealing" because they are taking the money openly without hiding the fact?

I mean... all taxes by all nations are stolen openly.
 
mrttao said:
not doing any jujutsu at all, just trying to understand whatever weird thing you are saying. since I got it wrong let me try it again and slam my head into your word salad some more...
ok so, your phrasing was really weird. but I do think I got it wrong last time.

are you saying that, when the russian and chinese govt steal the money of their commoners, it is not "stealing" because they are taking the money openly without hiding the fact?
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In normal countries taxes are *the* way government takes money and has to at least pretend to be spending them in a fair and transparent way.
In countries like Russia and China, things work differently. Taxes are for show and pretending it's a normal country with great leaders beloved by the people of course, budgets are for show, there is only bare minimum of pretending that anyone other that the people who wrote it get to know the deeper details, if someone does not like the redistributions of money happening behind the curtain they can be made to disappear easily. It's a much bolder and more ham fisted type of corruption.
They don't need grand conspiratorial schemes to invent whole new war strategies to grift some money out of the spending involved. They can just nationalize a huge business of someone without enough connections to the elite for whatever offense a loyal judge can concoct and then privatize it with the correct person getting it.
mrttao said:
I mean... all taxes by all nations are stolen openly.
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Ok anarkiddy.
 
Vyor said:
You're not part of the industry, so I'll forgive you there.

But let me put it this way: a single part of the equipment required to make the following nodes is made by a single company based out of Europe. That's a single part that relies on a single company in the world. This part goes for millions of dollars each and is one of the most complex machines to exist on its own. This part also took 30 years to develop, because that's how long they've been working to make EUV lasers of a precise enough level and which are large enough to manufacture CPUs.

This is, again, a single part.
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Sorry for the lateness of my reply. I've heard that anecdote before, but I don't accept that just because something took 30 years to develop it would take 30 years to reverse engineer, even without the product in hand to study (which they would have). And if we were in a situation where a critical supply bottleneck was choked off, I think any patent protections or the like would go out the window pretty damn quick.
 
AmosTrask said:
Waging war on the USA and its allies indirectly because the CCP is too weak and chickenshit to do it directly. No matter how much they huff and puff and talk big about their military. China is even worse off than Russia. Their so called 5th Generation planes have Russian 4th Gen engines and knockoff Dutch and French avionics from 3.5 Gen planes. Columbian and Mexican Cartels are openly using Chinese banks to launder cash and buy Fentanyl precursors from state owned Chinese chemical corporations and shipping them into Mexico for cover businesses by the thousands of tons.
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This goes too far. China is facing demographic disaster but its foundations are not as rotten as Russia's. (Please note the comparison here; it allows for China's foundations to be pretty damn rotten.) Corruption is endemic but not to my knowledge spiraling out of control to the point that it destroys the industries it parasitizes. Indigenous Chinese jet engine technology may be still catching up but it's not going to die just because China runs into economic problems. Unless pacifists somehow seize control of China critical military technology like that is going to be the last thing that loses funding, and China has the scale to keep such projects funded even when in dire straits.

Russia coasted on the corpse of its dead empire for too long. Whether that was due to shortsightedness, self-interested leaders, incompetence at whatever level(s), or any other reason is secondary to the result. It's possible that China will similarly fail to meet the domestic challenges it will face in the coming decades, but in the present Russia is worse off than China.
 
strunkenwhite said:
Sorry for the lateness of my reply. I've heard that anecdote before, but I don't accept that just because something took 30 years to develop it would take 30 years to reverse engineer, even without the product in hand to study (which they would have). And if we were in a situation where a critical supply bottleneck was choked off, I think any patent protections or the like would go out the window pretty damn quick.
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Then why hasn't anyone else started selling machines that do the same?
 
Vyor said:
Then why hasn't anyone else started selling machines that do the same?
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Because normal market incentives aren't enough to overcome the roadblocks to independent development. However, the picture changes if in the future there are extraordinary incentives, on top of a push by government, on top of artificial roadblocks like patent protection being removed.
 
strunkenwhite said:
Because normal market incentives aren't enough to overcome the roadblocks to independent development. However, the picture changes if in the future there are extraordinary incentives, on top of a push by government, on top of artificial roadblocks like patent protection being removed.
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If you think it is that simple, why does China have a notable problem with this stuff?
China which is willing to throw bigger money at what it considers strategic interests (the military utility of that stuff is hard to overstate and they do get sanctioned on electronics imports) and are famous for not giving a crap about IP.
 
strunkenwhite said:
Because normal market incentives aren't enough to overcome the roadblocks to independent development. However, the picture changes if in the future there are extraordinary incentives, on top of a push by government, on top of artificial roadblocks like patent protection being removed.
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Making billions upon billions of dollars isn't enough?
 
All this issue over chip production makes me think that micro-vacuum-tube type chips that have come into/back into fashion lately might see more uses than before.

Lot easier to build small vacuum-tubes quickly while the fancier chips get new produciton spun up.
 
Bacle said:
All this issue over chip production makes me think that micro-vacuum-tube type chips that have come into/back into fashion lately might see more uses than before.

Lot easier to build small vacuum-tubes quickly while the fancier chips get new produciton spun up.
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If you want it to pull 5000w of power for a single GPU, sure.
 
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