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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    My understanding is also that Catholics would avoid the term "change" with regard to teachings of the church. The Roman Catholic Church holds that all its doctrines that it teaches as dogmatic are the true and constant teaching of the Church of Jesus Christ, being taught since its founding. I...
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    Isn't this contrary to the official doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church? That is, the Church has been given one deposit of faith, and there is no ongoing divine revelation after that deposit. The RCC claims this deposit included both sacred Scripture and the tradition handed down from the...
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    I mean, sure, you could recite the Hail Mary in your thoughts with no outward expression, and technically speaking that would be "safe". But I'm not sure why anyone would do that intentionally without some kind of outward expression. It's not about "mentally" expressing awe. That's a...
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    Because no amount of alms giving, penance, partaking of the mass, baptism, indulgence, and whatever other things the Catholic Church says you must do will ever merit your entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven.
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    Thank you for trying to engage in good faith. I hope I'm not mischaracterizing anything you're saying. 1. I would say it would be categorized as praise, expressing awe directed at the angel for what he just saw, and in doing so was improperly recognizing the angel as higher than himself (hence...
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    No, I think you're starting to really mischaracterize the things I've been saying, bordering on making a straw man. One, I didn't say that prayer and worship are synonymous. I said that prayer falls under the category of worship. All prayer is worship, but not all worship is prayer. Two, I...
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    I'm not sure I'm following your reasoning here. We're talking about the definition of worship, and what the appropriate practice of worship is for a Christian. The scenario you suggest isn't a kind of loophole, because a Christian wouldn't be cursing God's name in his mind while worshipping. If...
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    I don't think it necessarily needs to be lyrical or sung. Jesus' prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane recorded in John doesn't appear to have been lyrical. I'm not sure it's valid to say that inward thoughts that are not outwardly expressed at all, even quietly, can properly be considered...
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    Well, to start with, I would point to the book of Psalms as the model for worship. A simple definition of worship is that worship is the act of prayer, praise, and thanksgiving in submission to an entity you recognize as higher than yourself. That is what we see done throughout the Psalms...
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    With regard to Revelation 19:10, it seems to me that you are reading things into the text in order to justify behavior that you have concluded a priori is acceptable for reasons that are not found in the Bible. John performed an action, and we can agree that what he started to do was wrong (and...
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    Yes, and there's a big difference between three different specific persons (not personalities) existing within the Godhead, and all living things existing within the Godhead.
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    Well, believing that God is "all living things" sounds like a kind of pantheism, and is in fact very different from what the Bible teaches about God being one being in three persons as I described.
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    Thank you for the detailed response, I appreciate it. And I totally get the long pause, I have a life outside of here and I would hope that you do too! If I'm understanding you correctly, your direct answer to my question is that what makes something worship is that it is "an offering of love...
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    This is kind of tangential, since the Trinity is a doctrine commonly held by Roman Catholics, Protestants, and the Eastern Orthodox; it's not a point of argument here. But I'll bite. It doesn't seem like you really understand the Trinity as any Trinitarian Christian tradition would express it...
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    While that is a somewhat related topic, again, I didn't say anything about the saints, or icons. I specifically said that early Christian sources, from the New Testament to the Apostolic Fathers to early church fathers, didn't "venerate" Mary. Are you here to engage with what I'm actually...
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    I never said anything about the early church "not having saints". If you're trying to have a good faith discussion with me, then please don't put words in my mouth and then act affronted by things I never said. If that's how you are going to approach this discussion then I'm not going to waste...
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    You shouldn't pray to family members who have passed, certainly. That's called ancestor worship, and is a form of paganism. Well some examples that come to mind are when Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego refused to fall down and worship King Nebuchadnezzar's golden image in Daniel 3, and when...
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    No one here is insulting Mary. If by "veneration" you mean treat Mary with the kind of reverence that the Bible teaches is reserved only for God, then no, it's not appropriate. No, because Jesus is given that title in Holy Scripture. The title "queen" is never ascribed to Mary in Scripture...
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    What do you think has been said about Catholic theology here that has been ignorant?
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    Catholic bullshit and defenses for it

    You're one to talk, given that you don't even know who the one God of Christianity is. Also, no, Mary was not "venerated" from the beginning. No early orthodox Christian document venerates Mary. The Bible doesn't do it, the Apostolic Fathers don't do it, the early church fathers don't do it...
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