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  1. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    France AFAIK was more despondent about another war, but thought it was a necessity. Yes AFAIK to the rest.
  2. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    No WW2. http://ibiblio.org/pha/policy/GermanWhiteBook.pdf I'm not endorsing most of what it says, just the Polish reports since their authenticity was independently confirmed by Hoover, who was no friend to the Nazis, but rather a humanitarian that helped anyone in need and was very anti-war...
  3. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    Problem is getting the Soviets to avoid invading. Certainly the Poles tried that strategy, but it failed. They could drag it out somewhat, but 6 months is optimistic. I think it is the West that is getting the very painful lesson, not Russia. If anything Russia is learning the extent of its...
  4. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    Yep, about 6 months IIRC. Sadly yes. Not surprising.
  5. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    IOTL they were willing to throw Czechoslovakia under the bus. But assuming they did they were really not ready for war, with the force ratios being even worse than in 1939. Again there is a reason the Allies didn't fight in 1938, up to and including thinking the Czechs would fall apart pretty...
  6. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    Compared to the French and British fighters of the time? Or Czech? The British had only 16 Hurricane I's as of February 1938 and apparently the engine issue and problems even with the MG armaments effectively meant they were useless in 1938. The French were still using fixed landing gear...
  7. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    Depends on whether the Allies want to keep fighting for Czechoslovakia after the country fell or not. 1938 was not 1939 or 1940. The Allies were much less prepared and even IOTL though it would take years before they were ready to take the offensive. Assuming the Allies decided to strangle...
  8. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    Why is France falling in 1939 here? Sure, I don't see why they wouldn't given the consequences of being the odd man out and having Soviet ultimatums dropped on them. Of course Romania would ask both, Poland in particular due to their alliance from 1921, as well as Italy.
  9. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    Poland chose not to activate the pact to keep Romania a neutral port they could use: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Bridgehead#:~:text=Poland%20and%20Romania%20had%20been,required%20to%20keep%20Poland%20fighting.
  10. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    Agreed. The degree to which the Soviet regime was propped up by bankers was only insofar as they could profit off of it, much as they did with Hitler and the Japanese in the 1930s. Schiff in particular with Trotsky was doing nothing the Germans themselves didn't do with Lenin. In fact because...
  11. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    Yeah the Skull and Bones thing is way overblown. It is just a fraternity of a bunch of rich kids that go to the same school, not some secret plot to dominate the country or the world. Rich people just hang out with rich people and help their friends out. In the sense of some bankers...
  12. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    It is pretty well established that Trotsky was getting financing from US banks in NYC. He came back to Russia directly from NYC and despite being arrested by the Canadians they released him on orders from some major authority in London. US and British military intelligence has all sorts of...
  13. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    1941 and 1943 were quite different given that fighting was much more concentrated and less intense in 1943 than 1941. Krivosheev's figures are far too low for casualties due to the reporting breakdown; 1941 saw worse Soviet losses overall, but especially in terms of permanent losses to the...
  14. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    Not exactly. Many became partisans after being cut off. The problem is the definition of the word partisan is rather nebulous. Does it refer only to specifically trained NKVD agents, anyone resisting the occupation/invasion, or somewhere in between those opposites? Sure, but can you also do...
  15. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    After the great purges and expansion of the military? There were very few combat vets left and the ones that were there were scattered all over the USSR, not in training establishments. Meanwhile the Germans had millions of recent combat vets, so even if not training roles (which they were...
  16. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    You mean the new divisions they built up? Yes, but they had veteran troops, officers, and NCOs as well as extensive training based on successful combat experience of others. How many casualties did the Soviets suffer against Finland? Yes that many may have fought, but at least half became...
  17. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    There is option 3 as well: A synthesis fo the above thesis. The Germans were the most veteran, best organized/led/equipped, and most victorious force on the planet at the time fighting an army that had at best a mixed record in combat in the 1939-41 period and was massively unprepared for war...
  18. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    I thought we were discussing the reasons why, not that the numbers are what they are. For one thing the campaign went on longer than the western one and there were many more Soviets, less German aircraft, and guerrilla war that didn't exist in the west. But when did #2 come into discussion...
  19. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    That's the problem it is very hard to come up with stats anyone agrees on because at best it is guestimation due to the fluidity of the situation and arguments about who qualified as a partisan/guerrilla and who didn't; who was a straggler and who was a front line fighter in the context of...
  20. sillygoose

    Alternate History Could Operation Barbarossa had been succesful megathread

    Organized partisan warfare wasn't a significant factor until 1942, but in 1941 it was out of control for much of the year due to the leaky pockets and civilian resistance (possible due to all the military arms being left all over the place) in part organized by soldiers fleeing capture. It is...
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