Best location for an alternate capital for the Russian Empire?

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WolfBear

Well-known member
What is the best location for an alternate capital for the Russian Empire? Let's say that Russian Tsar Nicholas II decides to move the Russian capital to a city other than either Moscow or St. Petersburg around 1900, as well as to subsequently avoid Russian participation in both the Russo-Japanese War and World War I. Personally, I think that Nizhny Novgorod might be a good location for an alternate Russian capital since it's located relatively close to Moscow and the Golden Ring cities:

en.wikipedia.org

Golden Ring of Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

It's also located very far from Russia's borders and would thus be very secure in the event of any future foreign invasion of Russia. A capital somewhere in Siberia I fear would be too distant and remote and would also aim to shed Russia's image as a European country, which the Russian Tsar might not want to do.

Does anyone here have any other ideas for this? And what do you think that the total population of an alternate capital for the Russian Empire would have been right now had Russia avoided its extreme demographic devastation during the 20th century? Also, what about the population of its suburbs?
 
Nizhny Novgorod and Kazan both make sense for a lot of the same reasons. I'd say Kazan has slightly more prestige, and I think it was the more sizable city in 1900, as well. It's historically been called "Russia's third capital", so it's definitely got that going for it.

Nizhny Novgorod, on the other hand, once had the status of "strongest fortress in the Grand Duchy of Moscow". so if the Tsars wish to deliberately call back to that aspect when moving the capital, this could be a factor.

I don't think other cities than these two would get serious consideration. All other plausible contenders are either strategically vulnerable, or offer the same advantages as these two to a lesser degree while also being less prestigious cities.
 
Butch R. Mann said:
Kazan would also be a strong contender as it is in many ways a rival to Nizhny Novgorod.
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Skallagrim said:
Nizhny Novgorod and Kazan both make sense for a lot of the same reasons. I'd say Kazan has slightly more prestige, and I think it was the more sizable city in 1900, as well. It's historically been called "Russia's third capital", so it's definitely got that going for it.

Nizhny Novgorod, on the other hand, once had the status of "strongest fortress in the Grand Duchy of Moscow". so if the Tsars wish to deliberately call back to that aspect when moving the capital, this could be a factor.

I don't think other cities than these two would get serious consideration. All other plausible contenders are either strategically vulnerable, or offer the same advantages as these two to a lesser degree while also being less prestigious cities.
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I considered Kazan but wondered if it might be too ethnic due to the fact that a large part of its population is Muslim, albeit of a more secular kind of Muslims. Russia traditionally portrayed itself as a multiethnic and multireligious but primarily Eastern Orthodox country, so I don't know if it would actually be cool with having its capital in a Muslim area. At least Nizhny Novgorod doesn't actually have this problem.

I also considered Samara as an alternative Russian capital, but its location might be insufficiently central relative to Russia's main population base, especially back then.
 
WolfBear said:
I considered Kazan but wondered if it might be too ethnic due to the fact that a large part of its population is Muslim, albeit of a more secular kind of Muslims. Russia traditionally portrayed itself as a multiethnic and multireligious but primarily Eastern Orthodox country, so I don't know if it would actually be cool with having its capital in a Muslim area. At least Nizhny Novgorod doesn't actually have this problem.
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I can't discount it as a factor, certainly. It may not be that much of a deal, however. The Tsars saw their Muslim subjects as perfectly loyal -- certainly the ones who had lived in European Russia for ages. It'll weigh in on the decision, I'm sure, but I'm not sure by how much.

WolfBear said:
I also considered Samara as an alternative Russian capital, but its location might be insufficiently central relative to Russia's main population base, especially back then.
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I agree with your reasoning. Things were different during World War II, and even then, they only cnsidered evacuating the government to Samara under the extreme emergency conditions of the Wehrmacht actually taking Moscow. (Which, as it happened, didn't come to pass.) Without that, I don't think they'd even do it in the 1940s, and certainly not c. 1900.
 
Skallagrim said:
I can't discount it as a factor, certainly. It may not be that much of a deal, however. The Tsars saw their Muslim subjects as perfectly loyal -- certainly the ones who had lived in European Russia for ages. It'll weigh in on the decision, I'm sure, but I'm not sure by how much.


I agree with your reasoning. Things were different during World War II, and even then, they only cnsidered evacuating the government to Samara under the extreme emergency conditions of the Wehrmacht actually taking Moscow. (Which, as it happened, didn't come to pass.) Without that, I don't think they'd even do it in the 1940s, and certainly not c. 1900.
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Interesting.

Yeah, makes sense.

I guess that the main drawback to Kazan would be its distance from Moscow and St. Petersburg. Nizhny Novgorod is at least much closer to St. Petersburg and especially to Moscow. It would have been really cool to have two giant cities (10+ million people by the early 21st century, very possibly, especially if Nizhny Novgorod remains Russia's capital since 1900 and Russia avoids its extreme 20th century demographic devastation) in the same rough general area along with of course Russia's extremely scenic Golden Ring:

Golden Ring of Russia | Rusmania

Golden ring of Russia
rusmania.com rusmania.com

golden-ring-with-distances.jpg


You might be interested in this 1998 geographical analysis and comparison book of Russia and the US, BTW:

Beyond Borders

Is it possible to look out over the Ural Mountains and see Appalachia? To find the character of the American West in the vast open space of Siberia? To smell the citrus and feel the warm sun of the Black Sea coast and be struck with a sense of Florida? This book is based on just such an idea...
digitalcommons.spu.edu digitalcommons.spu.edu
 
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Skallagrim said:
That's extremely interesting -- thanks for the tip!
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No problem! :)

There's also this book in regards to 1991 US and Soviet statistics:

www.census.gov

USA/USSR: Facts and Figures

The USA/USSR: Facts and Figures is a joint publication by the statistical agencies of the Unites States and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
www.census.gov www.census.gov

But Russia's statistics would have of course been different on various regards had it completely avoided decades of Communist rule.
 
WolfBear said:
I also considered Samara as an alternative Russian capital, but its location might be insufficiently central relative to Russia's main population base, especially back then.
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Skallagrim said:
I agree with your reasoning. Things were different during World War II, and even then, they only cnsidered evacuating the government to Samara under the extreme emergency conditions of the Wehrmacht actually taking Moscow. (Which, as it happened, didn't come to pass.) Without that, I don't think they'd even do it in the 1940s, and certainly not c. 1900.
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To elaborate on what I mean here:

Samara (Kuybyshev in Soviet times) doesn't have much population immediately to the south of it, unlike Moscow, Nizhny Novgorod (Gorky in Soviet times), and Kazan:

Biggest Soviet cities

Biggest Soviet cities 21 April 2017 Русские версии первой и второй карты. When I was looking for the Soviet Union’s largest cities, I couldn’t find any good list, let alone a map. Strange, I thought, considering that Russian Wikipedia seems to have incredibly detailed records of every Soviet...
sashamaps.net sashamaps.net

archive.ph

https://sashamaps.net/svg/ussr_top_cities_english.svg

archived 29 May 2022 20:36:39 UTC
archive.ph archive.ph

The main population centers south of Samara are located a very long distance from Samara, which probably isn't ideal.
 
PsihoKekec said:
Kazan would also be a strong contender as it is in many ways a rival to Nizhny Novgorod.
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FWIW, I have also considered Perm, Ufa, Yekaterinburg, and Chelyabinsk here--not to mention Russian cities that are more distant such as Omsk and Novosibirsk, but the same issue would apply to all of them as with Samara--specifically that there isn't all that much settled territory immediately to the south of these cities. Plus, few people live east of some of these cities as well. Russia's center of population is further west--possibly much further west--than any of these cities are.
 
Vladimir, Suzdal, or even Yaroslavl might also be good candidates, but yeah, if Russia manages to avoid getting involved in WWI, it could retain that large population, which could be used to settle the cities east of the Urals.
 
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