Excellence in Shitlording

To start with: your cited example goes off the rails immediately, since Meloni has been in power for a while, and her party just came out on top in the EU election, too. Evidently, "the right fails and then loses in short order" cannot then be true across the board.
But she basically turned into a typical succ politician for it, so is she even right wing anymore? What happened to reducing or reversing immigration? Hell, it increased under her.

What they need is a Reagan, not a Bush Jr.
 
Look at it this way:

Populists don’t exist when the establishment is doing its job properly.

The establishment consistently fucking up and refusing to hear otherwise for a few decades straight causes the rise of populism. Refusal to address the concerns of the public because “reeee racism” (and secret cowardice regarding unsustainable welfare states) will only make this worse.
 
I did remember seeing that the European continent as a whole was swinging pretty hard to the right. Surges in populist and right parties in general.

Yes, but "right" is actually the left-wing frame. Because "left" has actually changed dramatically. In the Netherlands, we have the left-wing Labour Party. In Dutch, that's PvdA: Partij van de Arbeid ("Party of Labour"). The Dutch populist Geert Wilders said, ten years ago already, that PvdA now stands for Partij van de Allochtoon ("Party of the Immigrant", basically).

And that's true.

Essentially, the zero-sum game is like this: for big business, immigration and open borders are good, because it provides access to near-unlimited and often cheap employees. For workers in developed countries, it's bad, because it pushes them out of the market, while cost of living does not decrease for them. That mass immigration also causes substantial costs isn't a problem for big business, either, since they can lobby to have the increased tax burden shifted away from them. That part is bad for the middle class in particular.

Thus, the workers and the lower middle class are the main victims of these policies. These are people who traditionally voted socialist and social-democratic. But since the political left has gone for pro-immigration policies, they've lost these votes. Which now go to the populists. Who are not actually right wing.

Populism is actually what you might call "true" Labour. They're the advocates of the workers' interests.

The populists exist because the left shanked the workers in the back. And the economic right ("Free markets! Free markets!") isn't well-suited to be their champion, because "line go up!!!" means nothing to you if your purchasing power decreases every year and you have no spare money to invest in stocks or shit like that. Hence, the ascent of populism.
 
And the economic right ("Free markets! Free markets!") isn't well-suited to be their champion, because "line go up!!!" means nothing to you if your purchasing power decreases every year and you have no spare money to invest in stocks or shit like that. Hence, the ascent of populism.
"Free Market Uber Alles" and its consequences have been a disaster for the Western World.
 
How is anything the free markets fault?

I'd say big business joining forces with government to crush small businesses and anyone that disagrees politically is far worse. It's given us corrupt mega corps and corrupt governments.

What's it called? Crony capitalism?

Where they join forces to stop any attempts to compete and target people they hate.
 
"Free Market Uber Alles" and its consequences have been a disaster for the Western World.

The party came first, the hangover came later. The establishment advice ("Hair of the dog! Keep drinking! Keep drinking more!") is likely to cause... health issues.

But seriously, the benefits were very real. You can see this across the board: the British supremacy was ultimately built on an early pivot towards free trade, with Adam Smith basically being the prophet of the cause. It was good. It created immense wealth, and it helped lift people out of poverty by providing a vast array of opportunities. Wich is why Gladstone (champion of free trade) was "the People's William".

But as you grow richer, cost of living increases, and thus cost of labour. That can be kept down by importing more workers ("Higher wages? Take a hike, I can hire three immigrants in your stead!") or offshoring jobs to cheaper countries. At which point free trade stops being beneficial to the masses in the developed world. That's the hangover. You make yourself rich, and then find you've priced yourself out of the global market.

Two solutions:

1) Fuck the workers, basically let Darwinism run its course, and ultimately, the flood of immigrants will "even things out". Wages eveywhere will be roughly the same, cost of living everywhere will be roughly the same, quality of life eveywhere will be roughly the same. This means the entire world will look somewhat like India. (Including an upper caste of ultra-rich plutocrats and vast teeming masses of vaguely brown colour.) The West, having previously been on top, will be the big loser. Economically, it's "logical", and for the anti-white Left, it's "justice". But for ordinary Westerners, it's simply... extinction.

2) Turn the West into a "closed system", on the basis that only nations that are equally developed (and have equal costs of living) can interact equally. So close the borders, and accept only imports of raw materials from the rest of the world. (At its most cynical: send in the marines when any other country gets too uppity, or even introduce neo-colonialism.)

I argue for the second option, and for a variety of reasons I've often talked about elsewhere, I also expect that path to ultimately be chosen. You can have absolute free trade, and even basically "domestic libertarianism" within the proposed Western world-system. In fact, I argue that we should. Because within that closed system, there will be rough socio-economic parity, so that the problem discussed above doesn't become an issue.



How is anything the free markets fault?

I'd say big business joining forces with government to crush small businesses and anyone that disagrees politically is far worse. It's given us corrupt mega corps and corrupt governments.

What's it called? Crony capitalism?

Where they join forces to stop any attempts to compete and target people they hate.

I believe my above response to @Lord Sovereign goes into the core issue.

The problem you describe also exists, and we must solve it. As I said: I'm in favour of free trade (and, indeed, something that much resembles libertarianism) within the Western world-system. In fact, closing off the West in the manner I've proposed would go a long way to breaking the power of the megacorps that rely on the mechanisms I've outlined above.

Note also that when I say "the West", my definition is rather broad. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Israel could fit into this sphere. But as I've argued elsewhere: China presently exploits the global disparity at the expense of the West, but is already losing the advantage, and will eventually conclude that a set-up as I've described is also in their interest. Therefore, expect a Chinese world-system to exist side-by-side with the Western one, with only minimal interaction between the two. Depending on how things play out, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan may thus fall into the Chinese sphere.
 
Turn the West into a "closed system"
So you want to turn the West into Edo Japan, and you think the rest of the world will just shrug and slow down instead of marching ahead while the West decays?

This is just the same mistake Leftists make, but from the other side. "The only nation with agency is my own".
 
So you want to turn the West into Edo Japan, and you think the rest of the world will just shrug and slow down instead of marching ahead while the West decays?

This is just the same mistake Leftists make, but from the other side. "The only nation with agency is my own".

On a smaller scale, it would be detrimental. Treating a world-system that encompasses roughly a third of the planet, possibly more, as comparable to the Japanese archipelago is obviously a canard.


P.S. -- I observe that you have a tendency where you respond only to small snippets of posts, and ignore everything else. That's not a style of conversation I which I wish to engage. I say that without malice; I'm just letting you know that I won't respond further to such "selective" responses to lengthier, more substantial posts. (You did it in post #1681 as well, and as you can see, I didn't engage further.)
 
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On a smaller scale, it would be detrimental. Treating a world-system that encompasses roughly a third of the planet, possibly more, as comparable to the Japanese archipelago is obviously a canar
Firstly, the West combined is less than the population of China or India alone. And remember what happened to China when they shut themselves off? Yeah.

Secondly, the fact remains that trade is critical to healthy development of civilization. Trade in both ideas and goods and services. Trying to shut that off just because of something as insubstantial as nationalism is just suicide. It's not an option, period.

Thirdly, there are far simpler ways to solve the immigrant problem. Like, you know, proper law enforcement? It's not like all or even most immigrants are criminals, just enough of them to be a problem. And I'm speaking of Europe here. Immigrants in the US are law abiding, productive citizens on the whole according to multiple studies, and are a critical resource nobody with any institutional power will dare to shut out.

P.S. -- I observe that you have a tendency where you respond only to small snippets of posts, and ignore everything else. That's not a style of conversation I which I wish to engage. I say that without malice; I'm just letting you know that I won't respond further to such "selective" responses to lengthier, more substantial posts. (You did it in post #1681 as well, and as you can see, I didn't engage further.)
Why should I address the whole post if I only care about a singular part of it?
 
Why should I address the whole post if I only care about a singular part of it?

Because there is a conversation going on, and the conversation isn't "whatever @SoliFortissimi wants everyone to talk about, to the detriment of everything else".

It creates the impression that you're not a discussion partner, but an inquisitor. Whatever someone writes in reply to you, you then cherry-pick which lines of discussion are perpetuated, and everyone must go along. It gives you total control over what's discussed and what's left aside-- and I'm not really willing to speak to people on those terms. It stops being an interesting and worthwhile conversation for me, then.

So... have a nice day. I mean that; but I'm going to have other conversations now.
 
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Because there is a conversation going on, and the conversation isn't "whatever @SoliFortissimi wants everyone to talk about, to the detriment of everything else".

It creates the impression that you're not a discussion partner, but an inquisitor. Whatever someone writes in reply to you, you then cherry-pick which lines of discussion are perpetuated, and everyone must go along. It gives you total control over what's discussed and what's left aside-- and I'm not really willing to speak to people on those terms. It stops being an interesting and worthwhile conversation for me, then.

So... have a nice day. I mean that; but I'm going to have other conversations now.
I just presume when he does that he surrenders all the other points in the post. he did that with my post describing Trump as the best president in my lifetime. I therefore believe he fully agrees with and endorses that as well.
 
I just presume when he does that he surrenders all the other points in the post. he did that with my post describing Trump as the best president in my lifetime. I therefore believe he fully agrees with and endorses that as well.

I don't like to make assumptions like that, and I don't really engage in discussions to 'win' them, anyway. At most, I'd wish to demonstrate the logic of my position. But that typically requires context, which in turn is why it's bad form to just unilaterally side-line whole lines of discussion.

In my own posts, I tend to respond to people point-by-point, if only to signal agreement, or to add supporting facts, or to say that I'm insufficiently informed to discuss a specific matter. And yes, the points that I disagree with, I debate. :p But I don't just single out those points, and just... act as if the rest of the post doesn't exist. That's extremely rude, and drags any discussion into a very negative focus.
 
Well played... Matt Walsh.

GQpM-JtWgAAtiEf
 

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