Fallout Perpetual Debate of Bethesda Versus Interplay/Obsidian Fallout World Design

[ThatZenoGuy]

One thing which breaks my immersion is that settlements attract nameless NPC's who never actually show up in the wasteland.

Like what? Are these people living in the sewers or the aether or something? It would've been neat if without settlements they wander around doing generic scavenger stuff, being picked off by raiders/mutants/etc.

And there's zero consequences to killing them because their spawn rate is high enough that you can kill a hundred of the damned things and in like a week you're back to business.

Never mind the fact they never actually really provide any 'real' service to the player, the most logical thing to make use of them would make several quests so challenging that even a minmaxxed character would lose without sending a horde of 20 equipped settlers to attack with them.

But that'd require a game engine that could actually surpass the original Doom in NPC counts.

 

[Navarro]

It represents the general population of the wasteland, w. the scale compression there are large areas that simply don't really exist in the gameworld compared to how big it's actually supposed to be.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

I wish Boston had been a proper city that was openly ruled by the institute. The outer regions could be where things were more dicey.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

It represents the general population of the wasteland, w. the scale compression there are large areas that simply don't really exist in the gameworld compared to how big it's actually supposed to be.

It comes across as nonsensical though, there's tens, hundreds of mostly intact houses, skyscrapers and more, all completely empty, not a soul in sight.
Well...Maybe full of mutants or raiders or somesuch. In FO1-2 you actually stumbled across a lot of neutral 'trader/scavenger/etc' NPC's which made the world feel like it was populated. It was all an illusion of course because these NPC's disappeared once you got off the map, but 99% of what makes games great are illusionary.

All FO4 had to do was place mooks around the map to remind the player "Oh yeah, HUMANS LIVE HERE!"

 

[Scooby Doo]

It comes across as nonsensical though, there's tens, hundreds of mostly intact houses, skyscrapers and more, all completely empty, not a soul in sight.
Well...Maybe full of mutants or raiders or somesuch. In FO1-2 you actually stumbled across a lot of neutral 'trader/scavenger/etc' NPC's which made the world feel like it was populated. It was all an illusion of course because these NPC's disappeared once you got off the map, but 99% of what makes games great are illusionary.

All FO4 had to do was place mooks around the map to remind the player "Oh yeah, HUMANS LIVE HERE!"

That's because the East Coast is significantly more dangerous than the West like to a hilarious degree.

Surviving in the West Coast is practically playing life on easy difficulty because the main threats of the Enclave and Mutants were gotten rid of by the Player Characters.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

That's because the East Coast is significantly more dangerous than the West like to a hilarious degree.

Surviving in the West Coast is practically playing life on easy difficulty because the main threats of the Enclave and Mutants were gotten rid of by the Player Characters.

It's because that is the Bethesda open world formula

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

That's because the East Coast is significantly more dangerous than the West like to a hilarious degree.

Surviving in the West Coast is practically playing life on easy difficulty because the main threats of the Enclave and Mutants were gotten rid of by the Player Characters.

If it's so comically dangerous, where are the settlers coming from? Do they writhe out of the mud like Uruk Hai or something? Why is the area a desolate wasteland devoid of human life until some pre-war retard puts up a radio beacon?

I mean lets not fool ourselves, we KNOW why the area is comically void of human life until you make settlements, it IS gameplay and story separation. But if you separate gameplay and story too much it breaks immersion, it's the subtleties that you need in a game to make it feel real.

God damned Trespasser has better connection between the story and gameplay and that game was a genuine flop.

 

[Scooby Doo]

It's because that is the Bethesda open world formula

Uh no it's not they do try world building, not every location in the wasteland got the benefit of the NCR forming. Heck Honest Hearts is literally full of retarded ass tribal people that have existed since just after the bombs dropped.

Not every place has to be the NCR. Bethesda's technically only done two games that take place after Fallout 1. The first game built up to a finale where the Brotherhood would begin rebuilding the wasteland

The 2nd game further expanded a potential rebuilding of the common wealth with the Minutemen or Brotherhood, while confirming the Brotherhood literally cleared the entire DC area of Super Mutants while building a flying nuclear blimp


IDK why people act like Bethesda doesn't rebuild in their games, they are it's just slower 🤦

 

[Scooby Doo]

If it's so comically dangerous, where are the settlers coming from? Do they writhe out of the mud like Uruk Hai or something? Why is the area a desolate wasteland devoid of human life until some pre-war retard puts up a radio beacon?

Bruh that's a dumb take, that's like saying where are all the Fiends coming from in New Vegas? Do they writh out of the mud like Uruk Hai? How come no matter how many I kill even their leaders there's still more?

I mean lets not fool ourselves, we KNOW why the area is comically void of human life until you make settlements, it IS gameplay and story separation. But if you separate gameplay and story too much it breaks immersion, it's the subtleties that you need in a game to make it feel real.

I mean gameplay wise it's probably because of the settlement building feature, too many NPC's would probably effect the game.

Story wise you don't see a lot of people because of the Institute, Gunners and Raiders make leaving by yourself outside a community real dangerous. It's only when the Minute Men return that people come out of hiding.


Let's not act like there's no areas full of people like Goodneighbor, Diamond City, Vault 81, Bunker Hill, Nuke World. Not as many as Vegas (Which is only as good as it is because God House saved the day) sure but you can literally create your own settlements up to 37 with a max pop of 20 each that's like 750 NPC's.

🥴

God damned Trespasser has better connection between the story and gameplay and that game was a genuine flop.

I mean if we're gonna point out flaws let's not forget every DLC area in New Vegas has barely any neutral or friendly NPC's

🤷

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

IDK why people act like Bethesda doesn't rebuild in their games, they are it's just slower 🤦

Capital Wasteland, two main cities, one of which, Megaton is a nightmare of issues ranging from water table to doing the reverse of defensive concepts (LIVE ON A HILL, NOT IN A HOLE!). The other is a damned aircraft carrier which somehow doesn't have any form of housing outside of itself, absolutely zero rebuilding over two hundred years.

Commonwealth has had two hundred years and to show for it we have 1 (one) major city which is inhabited by an entire clown-posse of retards ranging from people who misunderstand the basics of sports (there wasn't a SINGLE baseball game book IN A BASEBALL STADIUM?), to robots who only speak Japanese and sell noodles despite no farms being present.

Reminder that Fallout 1 takes place WAY before these two games and features...
-An entire functioning village comprised of Vault 15 descendants
-A big scrapyard town with functioning law enforcement, gambling den and political intrigue
-A huge damned town that acts as a trading hub, collection of stores, slums, drug dens, a fucking BANK, entire water-collection industry and more
-The Boneyard, where weapons/armor is produced, multiple factions warring between each other, and people actively working on how to build and improve what they already have
-A zombie city which has functioning water filtration and despite being inhabited by fucking GHOULS has managed more than FO3-4 cities despite most of their populace being so braindead they attack you on sight
-And of course the mutant army which is actively building mutants for an actual (if faulty) reason and actually is going somewhere

Bruh that's a dumb take, that's like saying where are all the Fiends coming from in New Vegas? Do they writh out of the mud like Uruk Hai? How come no matter how many I kill even their leaders there's still more?

You're equating generic citizen mooks (which by definition NEED TO BE WANDERING AROUND TO PROVE WE HAVE HUMANS LIVING IN BOSTON!) with generic ENEMY mooks which by definition need to spawn because the aim of the game is to shoot at them.
Fallout 1-2 managed to pull of both so I reckon with 10 years of technology advancement Bethesda can do better. If we look at FO3-4 at face value we have to assume the vast majority of humans are insane psychopaths' which wouldn't make any sense.

I mean gameplay wise it's probably because of the settlement building feature, too many NPC's would probably effect the game.

Story wise you don't see a lot of people because of the Institute, Gunners and Raiders make leaving by yourself outside a community real dangerous. It's only when the Minute Men return that people come out of hiding.

That's the issue, if the world is so unsafe you cannot walk around without almost certainly being killed, it's going to be so dangerous that even the largest communities simply WILL be sieged and broken apart within a few short years. A single squad of gunners can kill the entire diamond city security force AND citizens. Let alone what a larger force could do. So why is diamond city still around?
The Hub in FO1 has a good dozen combat-armor security guards who will kick even a well-levelled character's teeth in, meanwhile you can genocide Diamond city with a flick of your fingers after playing for a couple hours.

I mean if we're gonna point out flaws let's not forget every DLC area in New Vegas has barely any neutral or friendly NPC's

🤷

Most areas in NV DLC's have no neutral/friendly NPC's for very obvious reaons.
-Lonesome road: Full of insane ghoul mutants
-Old World Blues: Isolated and only way to get there is teleportation, anybody who IS teleported there is lobotomized and only the player character having two bullets in their skull allowed them to survive
-Honest Hearts: Lots of friendly/neutral NPC's here, even if they don't wander about because Obsidian had to use Bethesda's jank engine
-Dead Money: I mean...I shouldn't have to explain this one.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Capital Wasteland, two main cities, one of which, Megaton is a nightmare of issues ranging from water table to doing the reverse of defensive concepts (LIVE ON A HILL, NOT IN A HOLE!). The other is a damned aircraft carrier which somehow doesn't have any form of housing outside of itself, absolutely zero rebuilding over two hundred years.

And? FO1 had its shit places too, are we just gonna act like the Boneyard didn't exist?

If you judge both by their "first games" Fallout 1 isn't that drastically more developed than the DC Wasteland. Shady Sands was literally smaller than Megaton

It's only when you get to Fallout 2. Where the NCR gets a drastic jump, we don't see what the Capital Wasteland looks like in FO4 but it's obviously not going to be as big because their established lore would limit how fast their population can grow in a decade versus than 80 years the NCR get.

Commonwealth has had two hundred years and to show for it we have 1 (one) major city which is inhabited by an entire clown-posse of retards ranging from people who misunderstand the basics of sports (there wasn't a SINGLE baseball game book IN A BASEBALL STADIUM?), to robots who only speak Japanese and sell noodles despite no farms being present.

Blame the Institute 🤷 they killed the Commonwealth pseudo NCR before it can take off but post ending of Fallout 4 they can rebuild.

I don't know why you think there should be massive acres of farms in a hostile land scapes, that's like expecting massive farms in the Bone Yard.

Reminder that Fallout 1 takes place WAY before these two games and features...
-An entire functioning village comprised of Vault 15 descendants
-A big scrapyard town with functioning law enforcement, gambling den and political intrigue
-A huge damned town that acts as a trading hub, collection of stores, slums, drug dens, a fucking BANK, entire water-collection industry and more
-The Boneyard, where weapons/armor is produced, multiple factions warring between each other, and people actively working on how to build and improve what they already have
-A zombie city which has functioning water filtration and despite being inhabited by fucking GHOULS has managed more than FO3-4 cities despite most of their populace being so braindead they attack you on sight
-And of course the mutant army which is actively building mutants for an actual (if faulty) reason and actually is going somewhere

Vault 101 >>>Functioning Village of a dozen people
Rivet City Nuclear Aircraft>>>Scrapyard
Brotherhood of Steel Citadel>>>Huge trading hub town
Zombie city cool you know the Underworld exists in Fallout 3?
Mutant army meet Adams Air force base Enclave and the Crawler lol

Fallout 3 is comparable if not modestly smaller than Fallout 1.

You're equating generic citizen mooks (which by definition NEED TO BE WANDERING AROUND TO PROVE WE HAVE HUMANS LIVING IN BOSTON!) with generic ENEMY mooks which by definition need to spawn because the aim of the game is to shoot at them.
Fallout 1-2 managed to pull of both so I reckon with 10 years of technology advancement Bethesda can do better. If we look at FO3-4 at face value we have to assume the vast majority of humans are insane psychopaths' which wouldn't make any sense.

There are independent wastelanders though, they literally come running out to give you caps or other rewards in Fallout 1.

You also have the Regulators and Talon Company and Reily's Ramger's.

Now I'll give you that in Fallout 4 but they shifted the formula from randomly roaming wastelanders to wastelanders that live in your settlementss which like what is the problem with that?

You don't come across large amounts of random wastelanders in New Vegas either, in fact outside of scripted instances the only ones you find outside cities are caravans lmao

That's the issue, if the world is so unsafe you cannot walk around without almost certainly being killed, it's going to be so dangerous that even the largest communities simply WILL be sieged and broken apart within a few short years. A single squad of gunners can kill the entire diamond city security force AND citizens. Let alone what a larger force could do. So why is diamond city still around?

Because Diamond City has canonically hundreds of people and the Gunners actually care about making money and Diamond City is actually a good investment for them.

Institute doesn't wipe them out because they have a plant that's controlling the city so they're a non threat.

Like this is explained lol

The Hub in FO1 has a good dozen combat-armor security guards who will kick even a well-levelled character's teeth in, meanwhile you can genocide Diamond city with a flick of your fingers after playing for a couple hours.

And Rivet City has more combat armored guys and an unkillable android that could solo the Hub, what's your point?

Edit: Fallout 4 Protagonist is mechanically the strongest they could solo every FO Protagonist combined so Diamond City guards not being able to beat the PC isn't a knock against them, the Sole Survivor would destroy the FO1 Guards with even less effort.

Most areas in NV DLC's have no neutral/friendly NPC's for very obvious reaons.
-Lonesome road: Full of insane ghoul mutants
-Old World Blues: Isolated and only way to get there is teleportation, anybody who IS teleported there is lobotomized and only the player character having two bullets in their skull allowed them to survive
-Honest Hearts: Lots of friendly/neutral NPC's here, even if they don't wander about because Obsidian had to use Bethesda's jank engine
-Dead Money: I mean...I shouldn't have to explain this one.

Sounds like shitty writing to me, why didn't they just add more friendly NPC's?

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

And? FO1 had its shit places too, are we just gonna act like the Boneyard didn't exist?

If you judge both by their "first games" Fallout 1 isn't that drastically more developed than the DC Wasteland. Shady Sands was literally smaller than Megaton

Of course the Boneyard isn't gigantic and populated, it's one of the earliest depictions of the wasteland lmao.
You realise time=more people right? :V

Sounds like shitty writing to me, why didn't they just add more friendly NPC's?

Have an honest conversation, or don't have one at all.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Of course the Boneyard isn't gigantic and populated, it's one of the earliest depictions of the wasteland lmao.
You realise time=more people right? :V

Well shit sounds pretty hypocritical that you're judging Bethesda for the literal same thing huh?


Like fr do you think the East Coast had more time to develop than the West?

Have an honest conversation, or don't have one at all.

I mean you first lol.

Complaining that the Diamond City guards are not as strong as the FO1 Guards when the fact is you're piss weak in FO1.

🙄

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Well shit sounds pretty hypocritical that you're judging Bethesda for the literal same thing huh?


Like fr do you think the East Coast had more time to develop than the West?

Uhh yes, the East coast had more time in 200 years to develop than the West had in 100 years. You're aware FO1 takes place well before the rest of the series right? :V The point raised is FO1 with less time, has more development than the East coast in 200 years.
100<200

I mean you first lol.

Complaining that the Diamond City guards are not as strong as the FO1 Guards when the fact is you're piss weak in FO1.

🙄

Look man, are you just taking the piss now? Yes, I will complain that the one (1/Singular/uno/ein) major town in FO4, with 200 years is less well defended than a fucking water-trading hub which had 100 years to ready itself.

Especially because the threats after 200 years are so much greater, literally 50 feet outside the entrance is a bunch of pissed off supermutants who canonically are about as tough as power-armor equipped dudes. Somehow a fucking rag-tag group of featherweights holds them off forever which is such bullshit.

Let me put it so simply that even a child can understand...Or a 1 INT character I guess.

-Scary monster kill humie
-Unless humie got big gunz
-So humie need big gunz
-But FO4 no got big gunz
-Therefore humie should be ded

-But FO1 got big gunz
-Therefore game make sense

 

[Scooby Doo]

Uhh yes, the East coast had more time in 200 years to develop than the West had in 100 years. You're aware FO1 takes place well before the rest of the series right? :V The point raised is FO1 with less time, has more development than the East coast in 200 years.
100<200

You are aware that FO1 also had multiple vaults open up and the Brotherhood to help mitigate threats right?

Obsidian literally wrote and bent over backwards to give the West Coast multiple best case scenarios including miraculously intact weapon depos. Comparatively the East Coast didn't have ANY successful colonization projects because each vault failed with one even ending up being a Poor Man's Master Crisis with Super Mutants turning most wastelanders into other Super mutants

The Brotherhood gets to the DC in 2255 which is AFTER Fallout 2, meaning that basically Rivet City was holding down the fort with their limited supplies and having to deal with far more radiation than the NCR could even dream of.


So fucking yeah the East Coast is less developed with the extra hundred years because they had significantly less resources, manpower and more threats than the West. Despite this they still manage to develop into something in far less time than what the NCR got.

Look man, are you just taking the piss now? Yes, I will complain that the one (1/Singular/uno/ein) major town in FO4, with 200 years is less well defended than a fucking water-trading hub which had 100 years to ready itself.

And what are you basing this off of? Canonically Diamond City fends off the Gigapede and a rogue sect of the Church of Atom before the events of Fallout 4.

They're not amazing but they're better than the trash Freeside and Westside garbage in New Vegas.

Especially because the threats after 200 years are so much greater, literally 50 feet outside the entrance is a bunch of pissed off supermutants who canonically are about as tough as power-armor equipped dudes. Somehow a fucking rag-tag group of featherweights holds them off forever which is such bullshit.

Oh its bullshit but the NCR sending six mercenaries with motorcycle helmets to wipe out the Super Mutant village in New Vegas isn't?

Let me put it so simply that even a child can understand...Or a 1 INT character I guess.

-Scary monster kill humie
-Unless humie got big gunz
-So humie need big gunz
-But FO4 no got big gunz
-Therefore humie should be ded

Diamond City makes up there lack of firepower with turrets and greater numbers 🤷 again their population is in the hundreds and they're in a fortified position, it often takes 3:1 odds to overwhelm defenders.

-But FO1 got big gunz
-Therefore game make sense

Big guns you mean assault rifles 😂

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

You are aware that FO1 also had multiple vaults open up and the Brotherhood to help mitigate threats right?

It had one vault open, ONE, Vault 15, who turned into shady sands. Not to mention no, the brotherhood doesn't help in FO1 at all lmao.

Obsidian literally wrote and bent over backwards to give the West Coast multiple best case scenarios including miraculously intact weapon depos. Comparatively the East Coast didn't have ANY successful colonization projects because each vault failed with one even ending up being a Poor Man's Master Crisis with Super Mutants turning most wastelanders into other Super mutants

Obsidian made one game, NV, which doesn't really explain much of FO1-2. Also of course pre-war stuff was laying about, when the vast majority of people die, resources skyrocket per person. That's basic economics.

The Brotherhood gets to the DC in 2255 which is AFTER Fallout 2, meaning that basically Rivet City was holding down the fort with their limited supplies and having to deal with far more radiation than the NCR could even dream of.

And they couldn't build a single fucking house, not one, something which A SINGLE PERSON with stone tools and a pair of shorts can do in the jungle with no help BUT THEMSELVES.

So fucking yeah the East Coast is less developed with the extra hundred years because they had significantly less resources, manpower and more threats than the West. Despite this they still manage to develop into something in far less time than what the NCR got.

They have just as much resources, just as much manpower and just as many threats, they're just badly written because as proven from Skyrim onwards, Bethesda just simply cannot wrote convincing worlds. They used to be able to, but they simply are incapable now.

And what are you basing this off of? Canonically Diamond City fends off the Gigapede and a rogue sect of the Church of Atom before the events of Fallout 4.

There isn't even 'gigapedes' in FO4, so that's nonsense, I find FO4 detestable enough so any EU nonsense tacked on is like double non-canon. Diamond city is guarded by people wearing god damned baseball armors and equipped with weapons so poorly made it's more of a danger to it's user than it's target. Somehow they hold off supermutants who can crush human skulls with their bare hands and are canonically so tough as to have bullets embedded in their skin without noticing.

Oh its bullshit but the NCR sending six mercenaries with motorcycle helmets to wipe out the Super Mutant village in New Vegas isn't?

The mercs who are armed to the teeth with weapons like Sniper Rifles, plasma rifles, plasma grenades and wearing metal armor and combat armor? That squad alone should be able to kill Diamond city lmao. In any case that force would probably lose to the mutants anyways.

Diamond City makes up there lack of firepower with turrets and greater numbers 🤷 again their population is in the hundreds and they're in a fortified position, it often takes 3:1 odds to overwhelm defenders.

There's a handful of weak turrets and a handful of guards, its nonsense. Their population is in the tens, not hundreds as well lmao. Spawn in a single group of gunners and they'll massacre the town, essential AI nonsense excluded.

Big guns you mean assault rifles 😂

The AR in FO1-2 is quite a powerful weapon, especially up close with a burst mode shot, even-more-so if it crits.
There are no AR's in the commonwealth, not, a, single, one.

 

[Scooby Doo]

It had one vault open, ONE, Vault 15, who turned into shady sands. Not to mention no, the brotherhood doesn't help in FO1 at all lmao.

So we're ignoring Vault 13 and Vault City?
Also ignoring the Brotherhood helping Vault 13 in technology, stemming off Raiders and taking the brunt of the attack from the Enclave?

Suuuuuuure.

Obsidian made one game, NV, which doesn't really explain much of FO1-2.

That's cope, Obsidian reinforced everything from FO1/2 and more for the NCR.

Also of course pre-war stuff was laying about, when the vast majority of people die, resources skyrocket per person. That's basic economics.

So you're telling me that there was plenty of weapons left over after 200 years? Jeez that doesn't seem realistic considering how mass looting works IRL.

You're telling me there was no military in those Depos and they just left the weapons there?

:V

Genius writing truly it surpasses by an infinite amount Bethesda's writing.

And they couldn't build a single fucking house, not one, something which A SINGLE PERSON with stone tools and a pair of shorts can do in the jungle with no help BUT THEMSELVES.

They build houses with metal, where the hell do you expect them to get good quality wood lol?

Look wow houses made ooo Bethesda scawy you with teh metal houses

They have just as much resources, just as much manpower and just as many threats, they're just badly written because as proven from Skyrim onwards, Bethesda just simply cannot wrote convincing worlds. They used to be able to, but they simply are incapable now.

Sounds like copium because everything you said so far has been debunked.

There isn't even 'gigapedes' in FO4, so that's nonsense, I find FO4 detestable enough so any EU nonsense tacked on is like double non-canon.

Cherry picking, if you're not going to be honest debating I'm assuming you conceded because you're factually wrong and don't like it. (Diamond City has a population in the hundreds cope, Diamond City has dealt with pretty massive threats so cope more)

Btw let's not forget Honest Heart exists and you have retarded tribals that live in caves despite being basically radiation free and having little threats

Diamond city is guarded by people wearing god damned baseball armors and equipped with weapons so poorly made it's more of a danger to it's user than it's target. Somehow they hold off supermutants who can crush human skulls with their bare hands and are canonically so tough as to have bullets embedded in their skin without noticing.

Concentrated fire in a fortified position is a helluva drug
🤷

Let's not act like they can't use the traders inside their base for better weapons if needed or that the Minutemen with their laser muskets wouldn't help them.

The mercs who are armed to the teeth with weapons like Sniper Rifles, plasma rifles, plasma grenades and wearing metal armor and combat armor? That squad alone should be able to kill Diamond city lmao. In any case that force would probably lose to the mutants anyways.

You're telling me six guys that can get killed by small caliber rifle rounds are too much for an entire village of Super mutants?

They're fucking wearing motorcycle helmets 😂 they ain't any better defended than Diamond City

There's a handful of weak turrets and a handful of guards, its nonsense. Their population is in the tens, not hundreds as well lmao. Spawn in a single group of gunners and they'll massacre the town, essential AI nonsense excluded.

Are we using game mechanics now instead of arguing the lore?
Okay the Institute spawned Infinite NPC's and solo's every non Bethesda game 🤷

The AR in FO1-2 is quite a powerful weapon, especially up close with a burst mode shot, even-more-so if it crits.
There are no AR's in the commonwealth, not, a, single, one.

And the guy in Diamond City literally sells Mini Nukes and yes AR's and other rifle ammo too
Commonwealth Weaponry

But FO1 guards are stronger mkay sure 😂 I swear you're clutching at straws

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

So we're ignoring Vault 13 and Vault City?
Also ignoring the Brotherhood helping Vault 13 in technology, stemming off Raiders and taking the brunt of the attack from the Enclave?

Suuuuuuure.

You need to play FO1, Vault city isn't even in Fallout 1 lmao.

 

[Scooby Doo]

You need to play FO1, Vault city isn't even in Fallout 1 lmao.

It existed at the time of Fallout 1 look at the dates, try again
Cope that Non Bethesda writing has trash moments and plotholes 😂

1. Fallout Bible p.11: "VAULT SYSTEM
   Vault 8: A control Vault, intended to open and re-colonize the surface after 10 years. Vault City is the result. Unfortunately."

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

It existed at the time of Fallout 1 look at the dates, try again
Cope that Non Bethesda writing has trash moments and plotholes 😂

It's great that you enjoy Fallout so much, but you really need to beat Fallout 1.
Fallout bible is hardly canon, so we can discount that tidbit.