Fallout Perpetual Debate of Bethesda Versus Interplay/Obsidian Fallout World Design

[Carrot of Truth]

You seem to really get a hardon for criticizing the writing of FO2 lmao, I am wondering if you'll pop some blood vessels down there in regards to later titles.
So what if they're the US government? Everyone got nuked to hell and back, maybe the government vaults were specifically targetted? Maybe they weren't built in time, any number of reasons. We don't have context, all we know is Enclave are very low in number, but very very powerful individually.

If you count Fallout Tactics as cannon then Cheyenne Mountain was the real government bunker to house people that they would rebuild with but then the Calculator fucked everything up.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

If you count Fallout Tactics as cannon then Cheyenne Mountain was the real government bunker to house people that they would rebuild with but then the Calculator fucked everything up.

Tactics is neato but...Has it's own problems. Even at release I don't think many fallout fans considered it to be too canon.
Funnily enough the Enclave in FO3 use Tactics power armor though.

 

[Scooby Doo]

You seem to really get a hardon for criticizing the writing of FO2 lmao, I am wondering if you'll pop some blood vessels down there in regards to later titles.

I'm just saying for the amount of shit Bethesda writing gets, by the same standards Fallout 2 is just as bad if not worse in some cases.

I don't see where the God tier writing is coming from honestly 🤷

At least Fallout 3 made the Enclave competent and needed a Deus Machina to beat them and the Enclave still managed to beat the Deus Machina

So what if they're the US government? Everyone got nuked to hell and back, maybe the government vaults were specifically targetted?

That's not stated anywhere, where would China even get the location of the Enclave vaults which are secret? The only ones who should have been targeted would have the Military bases the Brotherhood of Steel came from.

Honestly it should have been the Enclave that took over the West Coast not the bums of the NCR.

Maybe they weren't built in time, any number of reasons. We don't have context, all we know is Enclave are very low in number, but very very powerful individually.

Sounds like shit writing, apparently hobos can rebuild better than the organization that's leagues more advanced.

Eh? There's no Anchorage in FO2. It's a post-war design.

Nope try again Fallout 3 says other wise

What would the dropship even be defending itself from when it's armored against rifle-fire and is full of angry Enclave dudes in armor? It's a glorified Huey, not an Apache.

What if it's going to pick Enclave soldiers up, what if the Enclave soldiers need more fire power than can be carried on their person?

There's a variety of reasons and New Vegas shows the models that they did have guns so you're literally simping for shit writing lol

Enclave have a 'bug like' appearance for all their gear, thus the helicopters are overdesigned as well.

Their equipment looks menacing AND it's effective. Fallout 2 writing turned the Enclave into clowns half way through the story while jerking off the NCR with fortune after fortune and unrealistic levels of plot armor.

New Vegas NCR at least tried to be realistic and Fallout 3 actually respected the capability of the Enclave.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I'm just saying for the amount of shit Bethesda writing gets, by the same standards Fallout 2 is just as bad if not worse in some cases.

I don't see where the God tier writing is coming from honestly 🤷

Hey look, again, dishonest-posting is just sad and I'm not going to play along with it man.

It's funny because I actually praise FO3 in some aspects, because it legitimately has some neat stuff in it. It's really only 4 where it's utterly unbearable.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Hey look, again, dishonest-posting is just sad and I'm not going to play along with it man.

It's not dishonest, the US Government shouldn't be out done by a bunch of ragtag hobos. New Vegas writing definitely improved over the Fallout 2 writing.

Honestly it's real hypocritical coming from someone that trashed Bethesda for less lol

It's funny because I actually praise FO3 in some aspects, because it legitimately has some neat stuff in it. It's really only 4 where it's utterly unbearable.

First Half of FO2 story and world building is great then they circle jerked the NCR while making the Enclave retarded at the other half.

New Vegas made the Enclave competent and so did Fallout 3 at least in military capacity

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

It's not dishonest, the US Government shouldn't be out done by a bunch of ragtag hobos. New Vegas writing definitely improved over the Fallout 2 writing.

Honestly it's real hypocritical coming from someone that trashed Bethesda for less lol

>It's hypocritical to trash bethesda and praise the original games which all of Fallout derives from!
I'm sure A New Hope is full of issues too, still doesn't stop it from being the literal cornerstone of the series lmao.

FO1 is by definition of how series work, the most accurate depiction of the series, FO2 has issues but remains quite close to it.

First Half of FO2 story and world building is great then they circle jerked the NCR while making the Enclave retarded.

New Vegas made the Enclave competent and so did Fallout 3 at least in military capacity

Eh? NCR barely matter in FO2 really, are you playing the right game, or playing a mod or something? Like you do some quests for them but they don't help out or beat the Enclave in any way.

The Enclave are basically on the verge of virus-nuking the entire wasteland without any issues, until a literal Chosen-One appears to stop them, TableTopGame style.

Remember, Fallout is a virtual tabletop game, it's scripted, designed and even visually styled after them.

 

[Scooby Doo]

>It's hypocritical to trash bethesda and praise the original games which all of Fallout derives from!
I'm sure A New Hope is full of issues too, still doesn't stop it from being the literal cornerstone of the series lmao.

FO1 gets a pass but not FO2

FO1 is by definition of how series work, the most accurate depiction of the series, FO2 has issues but remains quite close to it.

No it doesn't it pulls numbers outta its ass, in Fallout 1 it goes from a few thousand to 700,000 in Fallout 2.

Fallout 3 is more faithful to Fallout 1 lmao

Eh? NCR barely matter in FO2 really, are you playing the right game, or playing a mod or something? Like you do some quests for them but they don't help out or beat the Enclave in any way.

New Vegas literally mentions the NCR hunt down the Enclave down and that they had a population of 700,000 in Fallout 2 which is pretty much bullshit NCR handjob wank

The Enclave are basically on the verge of virus-nuking the entire wasteland without any issues, until a literal Chosen-One appears to stop them, TableTopGame style.

I don't have an issue with that but the plot still bent over backwards to have or give the NCR the best possible outcomes in FO1 and went overkill in FO2.

Remember, Fallout is a virtual tabletop game, it's scripted, designed and even visually styled after them.

Literally only two games in the series is a virtual tabletop game, stop being a purist lol.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Literally only two games in the series is a virtual tabletop game, stop being a purist lol.

You're implying that keeping stuff pure is a bad thing lmao.
Fine, the next Fallout better be a virtual romance novel involving the player dating radroaches and BMW's with optional heated seating.

 

[Scooby Doo]

You're implying that keeping stuff pure is a bad thing lmao.

To an extent it is when you're ignoring 90% of the rest of the series lol.

Like when only two games in the franchise out of ten others games isn't considered canon that's a bit of an issue

Fine, the next Fallout better be a virtual romance novel involving the player dating radroaches and BMW's with optional heated seating.

Not even Fallout 76 was that bad, you're being a lil dishonest on how bad the Bethesda games are lol.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

To an extent it is when you're ignoring 90% of the rest of the series lol.

Like when only two games in the franchise out of ten others games isn't considered canon that's a bit of an issue


Not even Fallout 76 was that bad, you're being a lil dishonest on how bad the Bethesda games are lol.

90% of the Aliens series is complete dogshit too, the response to that is 'How about making stuff like the 10% that's good?', instead of claiming the remaining 10% is somehow problematic because it's different.
If you're going to accept mediocrity at best, and more realistically substandard goods, you might as well just be honest and go all the way. I want Fallout Gachas, free to play pay2win Fallout games, Fallout dating novels, Fallout the lunchbox, fallout the breakfast cereal, FALLOUT THE FLAME THROWER!! (Kids will love this one)

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Not even Fallout 76 was that bad, you're being a lil dishonest on how bad the Bethesda games are lol.

Are you high? Like I get that you're a Bethesda fanboy but how tf can you forgive that atrocity?

 

[Scooby Doo]

90% of the Aliens series is complete dogshit too, the response to that is 'How about making stuff like the 10% that's good?', instead of claiming the remaining 10% is somehow problematic because it's different.

I mean it's true it's dog shit but it's still canon, you don't have to get hysterical over it just be disappointed and move on and hope they do better.

And honestly Fallout 3 managed to make Fallout relevant again so changing the formula isn't always bad.

If you're going to accept mediocrity at best, and more realistically substandard goods, you might as well just be honest and go all the way. I want Fallout Gachas, free to play pay2win Fallout games, Fallout dating novels, Fallout the lunchbox, fallout the breakfast cereal, FALLOUT THE FLAME THROWER!! (Kids will love this one)

None of the games except Fallout 76 was mediocre. Fallout 4 may have had the weakest story of them but it added so much more mechanics than the previous ones which more than makes up for it.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Are you high? Like I get that you're a Bethesda fanboy but how tf can you forgive that atrocity?

Same people that can forgive Cyberpunk devs for releasing an incomplete game that they fixed years later.

And it's also not literally roach porn, I can't believe you'd prefer roach porn over a buggy game lmafo

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I mean it's true it's dog shit but it's still canon, you don't have to get hysterical over it just be disappointed and move on and hope they do better.

And honestly Fallout 3 managed to make Fallout relevant again so changing the formula isn't always bad.

None of the games except Fallout 76 was mediocre. Fallout 4 may have had the weakest story of them but it added so much more mechanics than the previous ones which more than makes up for it.

Not a corporate shill, what is canon and isn't canon is directed by objective quality, not some businessman who never played the games signing papers.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Not a corporate shill, what is canon and isn't canon is directed by objective quality, not some businessman who never played the games signing papers.

Actually canon is decided by the owners of the IP not fans, because you'll have fans arguing that the others game isn't canon.

You know a game can still be canon and you can still not like it? I honestly like Fallout 3 more than Fallout 2 🤷

Doesn't mean Fallout 2 isn't canon even though is objectively better.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Same people that can forgive Cyberpunk devs for releasing an incomplete game that they fixed years later.

And it's also not literally roach porn, I can't believe you'd prefer roach porn over a buggy game lmafo

Cyberpunk didn't fix their game though? At launch it was a buggy looter shooter with some of the most generic quest and gameplay mechanics on the market.

After all the patches it's the same damned thing, plus some anime tie-in quests, a DLC (that you have to pay for, despite scamming you beforehand!) and a few refinements like clothes no longer giving armor.

The whole 'CYBERPUNK IS GOOD NOW GUYS!' is basically a glorified psyop for people who never actually played the game at launch, and thus have no clue that the game really never changed much at all.

Oh wow they removed a perk that made you invisible in water despite no water combat! Great except the fucking crafting mechanic is still utter garbage, so who cares!?

Actually canon is decided by the owners of the IP not fans, because you'll have fans arguing that the others game isn't canon.

You know a game can still be canon and you can still not like it? I honestly like Fallout 3 more than Fallout 2 🤷

Doesn't mean Fallout 2 isn't canon even though is objectively better.

We disagree on a fundamental of canon, ergo there's no discussion in that regard. Business suits don't dictate what nerds can enjoy, and never will unless people let go of that power.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Same people that can forgive Cyberpunk devs for releasing an incomplete game that they fixed years later.

And it's also not literally roach porn, I can't believe you'd prefer roach porn over a buggy game lmafo

The fuck? 🤨

 

[Scooby Doo]

The fuck? 🤨

Zeno was mentioning the Bethesda games were as mediocre as roach porn

😂

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Zeno was mentioning the Bethesda games were as mediocre as roach porn

😂

Actually I specified 'dating sim' and 'dating'. The roach porn would be a DLC creation club sanctioned by Bethesda.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Cyberpunk didn't fix their game though? At launch it was a buggy looter shooter with some of the most generic quest and gameplay mechanics on the market.

After all the patches it's the same damned thing, plus some anime tie-in quests, a DLC (that you have to pay for, despite scamming you beforehand!) and a few refinements like clothes no longer giving armor.

The whole 'CYBERPUNK IS GOOD NOW GUYS!' is basically a glorified psyop for people who never actually played the game at launch, and thus have no clue that the game really never changed much at all.

They technically did fix it, they fixed bugs and updated graphics and added additional content and DLC even revamped a boss fight.

People forgave them and that's that lol 🤷

Oh wow they removed a perk that made you invisible in water despite no water combat! Great except the fucking crafting mechanic is still utter garbage, so who cares!?

The crafting mechanic is awesome, it factually gives you more options than either game. How is it garbage when it literally expands upon the previous lol?

Are you implying New Vegas had better crafting?

We disagree on a fundamental of canon, ergo there's no discussion in that regard. Business suits don't dictate what nerds can enjoy, and never will unless people let go of that power.

I'm just saying you gotta be objective, if you're gonna shit on X because Bethesda did it and not because it's stupid then I'm going to point out all the stupid shit done in the games not made by Bethesda.

Actually I specified 'dating sim' and 'dating'. The roach porn would be a DLC creation club sanctioned by Bethesda.

Lol