What If? Matthias Corvinus' Hungary in Westeros

[Aldarion]

So by act of ROB, Hungary from the Year of Our Lord 1475 is taken from Europe and replaces the Riverlands just before the start of the War of the Five Kings.

What happens from then on?

NOTE:

• Army of Matthias Corvinus 1475/9 (Venetian report):
  • Native forces
    • Hungarians
      • 10 000 heavy cavalry
      • 4 000 infantry
    • Szekelers
      • 16 000 light cavalry (horse archers)
    • Transylvanian Banderia
      • 8 000 – 10 000 cavalry
      • 2 000 handgunners
      • 2 000 Wallachian infantry
  • Total native: 44 000 men (36 000 cavalry, 8 000 infantry)
    • 10 000 heavy cavalry
    • 10 000 light cavalry
    • 16 000 horse archers
    • 6 000 infantry (pavesarii, armati, crossbowmen)
    • 2 000 handgunners
• River Fleet: 16 large galleys, 34 sloops, 314 boats, total of 10 000 soldiers
  • Among these soldiers, there were 1,700 armed with spears, and 1,200 wore armored infantry with wide shields while the rest had crossbows or bows. There were 16 very big galleys, each had 44 oars with 300 men-at-arms, four bombarders which threw 100-pound-balls, 100 cerbottana guns and 200 hand-guns (pisside manali) or as we call them rifles (hook-guns). There are three artillerymen at each cannon. Above these 330 boats, there are 34 additional boats at Nándorfehérvár (Belgrade) which are called 'naszád' (sloops?) in their language; each sloop had 18 oars and 18 soldiers with a rifle and two artillerymen. The nose of the sloop is very long and there is a 'cerbottana' or 'pisside' which they call 'esfivize' in their language. This cannon can cast a 40-pound-ball.

NOTE: Black Army at the time has 6 000 heavy cavalry and 10 000 infantry, but Matthias may not be able to support them just from resources of the kingdom. If you want to include it, note that he may be forced into basically constant warfare to do so... or simply loan it out to one of Essosi city-states.

 

[Agent23]

I am pretty sure they are technologically superior to anything in Westeros, but numerically, they might be insufficient to deal with all the locals.

canonically, Rob Stark managed to gather 20k
And that is just one of the former kingdoms of Westeros, a large one, indeed, but an inhospitable one witl lower population density.

I do think that firearms and improved light cavalry would be a huge boost, but would be enough to offset a numeric advantage of 4 or 5 to 1, and firearms back them were not as widely used or numerous as to be the big game changer.


Also, there would be the problem of religion, since I doubt the locals will automatically want to switch to Christianity and Westeros can into holy war.

 

[Aldarion]

I do think that firearms and improved light cavalry would be a huge boost, but would be enough to offset a numeric advantage of 4 or 5 to 1, and firearms back them were not as widely used or numerous as to be the big game changer.

Matthias Corvinus still used trebuchets in sieges because Hungary couldn't produce enough gunpowder.

 

[Agent23]

Matthias Corvinus still used trebuchets in sieges because Hungary couldn't produce enough gunpowder.

Well, guess it will be a race to find enough saltpeter, I guess.

I am ore inclined to think that he will not be able to conquer Westeros, but he might be able to hold his own, given that he was a capable commander, as opposed to the drunken, inexperienced buffoons in Westeros.

 

[Husky_Khan]

The fact he's in the Riverlands should be beneficial since he has a fleet of river boats ready that would make any aggression towards the Riverlands extremely difficult to engage in, especially since some of the boats have bombards and cannons on them most likely. But yeah securing resources to make gunpowder would be most important.

Also being in such a central location with the Riverlands means he'll be in a powerful position geographically as well, or a dangerous one. I doubt they'll be victims of predation from pirates and the like though.

 

[Aldarion]

The fact he's in the Riverlands should be beneficial since he has a fleet of river boats ready that would make any aggression towards the Riverlands extremely difficult to engage in, especially since some of the boats have bombards and cannons on them most likely. But yeah securing resources to make gunpowder would be most important.

Also being in such a central location with the Riverlands means he'll be in a powerful position geographically as well, or a dangerous one. I doubt they'll be victims of predation from pirates and the like though.

So... what happens if Tywin starts raiding as in OTL?

 

[Husky_Khan]

So... what happens if Tywin starts raiding as in OTL?

Well if it happens similar to OTL then Corvinus might be able to find allies in the North with the Starks. Twenty thousand Northmen should help balance the numbers since the Lannisters could bring some 35-50,000 troops onto the battlefield with the latter number being of old and young levies and depleting castle garrisons and the like. I think the Black Army and flotilla could manage to fend off the Westerlands forces pretty reliably on their own though, even if Tywin Lannister is one of the cannier military commanders.

 

[ATP]

So... what happens if Tywin starts raiding as in OTL?

Lannisters invaded with 40k troops,here they would face bigger and better force.
They get beaten without North help,but what next?
Robb still want go to save his father and sisters,so he would ally with them.Which would made them enemies of both Renly and Stannis.
I think,that we would have Stannis taking capitol after killing Renly,and Lannisters being beaten to their own lands.

Ironborns here would attack Lannisters or Tyrrels,not North.

Long civil war between Stannis,Lannisters/Tyrrels alliance,and North/Hungary.
Maybe lasting till Dany come.

P.S Black Army defeated all foes in OTL,which was better armed,so here they would keep winning battles,too.

P.P.S You also send Riverlands to 1475 - turks and Habsburgs would eat them for breakfast and ask for more.