History Myths of the Mafia

[Lord Sovereign]

When I look into the history of the big crime families that rose to prominence in the United States during the 1920s, and ultimately blasted their own foot off by getting involved with drugs, I see a lot of conflicting opinions on the matter. There does seem to be a myth, which very much comes from the Godfather, of these being reasonable, civilised gentlemen who even helped keep the streets of their communities safe whilst they made their money off more "out of sight, out of mind" crime. In reality of course these are criminals who ran their own personal empires and would beat to a pulp/kill anyone who stood in the way of that.

But I have to ask if it is entirely a myth? Myths often have their foundations in reality, so I do wonder if whilst they were terrifying to be on the wrong end of, their crime was a more sophisticated and organised thing than what came before or after. Brutal yet efficient and all that.

And, so far as I can tell, compared to the drug cartels that replaced them, the Old Mob looked cuddly. I've not heard of Dons skinning people alive.

 

[Skallagrim]

It's not entirely a myth, but mot of their "benevolence" was self-serving. Al Capone ran soup kitchens, but got the supplies by forcing companies to "donate" these. Wealthy people were "convinced" to make generous "contributions". He also kept most of the "donations" for himself, with only part of it actually going to the good cause he was supposedly championing.

Nonetheless, his soup kitchens helped quite a few families during some cold winters, so what we can at least say is that he wasn't doing only scummy things. There are still people alive now who won't hear a bad word spoken about Al Capone, because their parents or grandparents made it through the depression thanks to him.

I don't think anyone's going to talk about the Cartels like that, a century from now.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

It's not entirely a myth, but mot of their "benevolence" was self-serving. Al Capone ran soup kitchens, but got the supplies by forcing companies to "donate" these. Wealthy people were "convinced" to make generous "contributions". He also kept most of the "donations" for himself, with only part of it actually going to the good cause he was supposedly championing.

Nonetheless, his soup kitchens helped quite a few families during some cold winters, so what we can at least say is that he wasn't doing only scummy things. There are still people alive now who won't hear a bad word spoken about Al Capone, because their parents or grandparents made it through the depression thanks to him.

I don't think anyone's going to talk about the Cartels like that, a century from now.

In a more savage way, that reminds me of the Kray Twins in 1950s-1960s London. Brutal, cruel men, they all but wiped out petty crime in the East End to the point where one could leave their door unlocked and open during the day. Totally selfish of course; petty crime drew the attention of the police and that was the last thing the Krays wanted. So if you did stuff like that, they'd find you, torture you, clamp concrete blocks on your feet and throw you in the River Thames.

In Al Capone's case though, given what I've heard here, a point the historian Adrian Goldsworthy hammered home in his biography of Caesar was "self advancement and genuinely held beliefs aren't mutually exclusive." It benefited him greatly, but maybe he did want to help families get through hard times.

But yes, thank you for confirming. I had a feeling it wasn't entirely a myth.

 

[Simonbob]

Now that I'm thinking about it, there's another group, perhaps more, with that kind of vibe.

The Yakuza in Japan are one. From a certain point of view, there were bikie gangs in Australia who were known for their somewhat viking like honor codes, for as long as they lasted. (The bikies in question? The gangs still exist, but they were taken over by Middle Eastern guys a few decades ago, and while they kept the names, they kept pretty much nothing else. Last I heard, they drive cars, for crying out loud!)

As far as I can tell, for that kind of thing to work, they have to be part of the community. Then, they have a reason to want the community on side.


The reason why the Cartels act the way they do, is that the US has no community, in a bunch of ways, and there's so much money and power sloshing around in the USA that their own communities can't really compete. It's a hell of a mess.

The few groups I hear of fighting back are just as likely, if not more so, to be targeted by the Law. The Cartel guys can either run back south or call on external backing, where as any domestic group has nowhere to go. Worse, the US Gov, much like the Australian Gov, is more likely to let the criminal sydicate with external links continue over the local ones.

 

[Bear Ribs]

This touches a bit on what I consider an important part of writing and worldbuilding.

"Good" crime families, the ones that take care of the community, are essentially a proto-government and they only exist where the government isn't doing its job. They enforce the law when the lawman is nowhere to be found, handle social services the government should be doing but isn't, and collect taxes (protection money) to fund these operations. In the long run, either the government returns to doing its job and pushes the crime family away from that position, or the former government recedes entirely and the crime families become the new state leaders.

In a few cases, there's a third option, the existing government and crime families may join forces, and the government effectively gives the criminals a seat at the table rather than fighting. Such was the case with Zheng Yi Sao (also called Ching Shih), the most successful pirate in history who went on to negotiate with Guangdong and became part of the navy, turning her fleet of 24 pirate ships into official warships.

The Cartels are in part so sadistic because they've entered into the civil war stage of things and stagnated there for a long time. I suspect that it all have been over years ago without the US. The federal government has been throwing several tens of millions a year at Mexico to prop up the Mexican government, while at the same time the CIA and certain other branches have been sending aid to the Cartels. This has caused what could have been a relatively short transition to become long and bloody, with the level of brutality growing as things keep escalating with no end in sight year after year.

This is an important consideration in writing, particularly superheroes because a similar principle applies: if there's a robust and capable police force and military that is able to just shoot The Joker and keep Catwoman in prison for her full term, there is no narrative room for Batman. A lot of modern superhero stories struggle because the authors can't bring themselves to write the government authorities as being incompetent, but as soon as they do then there's no place for a guy in a suit and mask tying bank robbers to a lamp post. Similar things like armed banditry and adventurer parties/adventurer's guilds simply can't happen if the government is strong and has a potent military that should be able to wipe out the monsters/bandits/dungeons on their own.

 

[Agent23]

Relevant:

 

[Lord Sovereign]

In some respects it would be almost fitting to view the Italian Mob as a proto-feudal aristocracy. You pay your tithe and you get their protection and justice.

History is a complicated thing.

 

[Agent23]

In some respects it would be almost fitting to view the Italian Mob as a proto-feudal aristocracy. You pay your tithe and you get their protection and justice.

History is a complicated thing.

Here is the thing, the term Mafia, comes from sanctuary.
Sicily and some other parts of Italy were very, very lawless and the various "men of honor" were often the only law and organization.

And an "aristocracy" is basically a hereditary band of thugs that took control of some are, built up some hierarchy and invented some nice story for themselves and for their serfs to listen to.

 

[sander093]

The only difference between various organized crime syndicates and the government is scale and legitimacy.

 

[Zachowon]

We can look atbeven biker gangs in this way.
A group of big bearly men, who basically as long as you don't fuck with them or thier families it's all fine.
Often times if your town had a popular bar they would frequent you would be fine from petty criminals.

One can look at how gangs today drive forth thier communities, sure not on the worst of ways, but in ways that allow for a sense of commonality

 

[Agent23]

We can look atbeven biker gangs in this way.
A group of big bearly men, who basically as long as you don't fuck with them or thier families it's all fine.
Often times if your town had a popular bar they would frequent you would be fine from petty criminals.

One can look at how gangs today drive forth thier communities, sure not on the worst of ways, but in ways that allow for a sense of commonality

Didn't a bunch of Chicago and NY gangs band together to kick out the ANTIFA reetards during the "Violent and Fiery but Mostly Peaceful" Burning, Looting and Murder protests?

 

[Zachowon]

Didn't a bunch of Chicago and NY gangs band together to kick out the ANTIFA reetards during the "Violent and Fiery but Mostly Peaceful" Burning, Looting and Murder protests?

Latin Kings in Chicago iirc.

 

[Agent23]

Latin Kings in Chicago iirc.

When even drug dealers and pimps think your cause is bullshit...

And I am pretty sure it happened in either NY or New Jersey, too.

 

[ATP]

Didn't a bunch of Chicago and NY gangs band together to kick out the ANTIFA reetards during the "Violent and Fiery but Mostly Peaceful" Burning, Looting and Murder protests?

In Italy,mafia is killing worst rapefugees.Which are welcome by italian goverment,or at least,were welcome.

When I look into the history of the big crime families that rose to prominence in the United States during the 1920s, and ultimately blasted their own foot off by getting involved with drugs, I see a lot of conflicting opinions on the matter. There does seem to be a myth, which very much comes from the Godfather, of these being reasonable, civilised gentlemen who even helped keep the streets of their communities safe whilst they made their money off more "out of sight, out of mind" crime. In reality of course these are criminals who ran their own personal empires and would beat to a pulp/kill anyone who stood in the way of that.

But I have to ask if it is entirely a myth? Myths often have their foundations in reality, so I do wonder if whilst they were terrifying to be on the wrong end of, their crime was a more sophisticated and organised thing than what came before or after. Brutal yet efficient and all that.

And, so far as I can tell, compared to the drug cartels that replaced them, the Old Mob looked cuddly. I've not heard of Dons skinning people alive.

True.At least Italian and irish mafias,jewish mafias existed,too,but dunno if they cared for that or not.

 

[Agent23]

In Italy,mafia is killing worst rapefugees.Which are welcome by italian goverment,or at least,were welcome.

Yeah, our mafia deals with them by making them other countries problems.

True.At least Italian and irish mafias,jewish mafias existed,too,but dunno if they cared for that or not.

IIRC the Rabis had religious police in the stettels.

 

[Zachowon]

When even drug dealers and pimps think your cause is bullshit...

And I am pretty sure it happened in either NY or New Jersey, too.

Well it is a race war between the Latin Kings and the Black gangs.
So that is why

 

[DarthOne]

Well it is a race war between the Latin Kings and the Black gangs.
So that is why

Yeah and how many of the BLM/Antifa lot are actually black? Because I’ve seen a lot of white liberals with that bunch.

 

[Zachowon]

Yeah and how many of the BLM/Antifa lot are actually black? Because I’ve seen a lot of white liberals with that bunch.

It was actually black gangs