On site Vehicle and Building Fabrication: Act of War and Command and Conquer

[Spartan303]

So I have a technical question for you guys.

In the Act of War and Command and Conquer (we'll go with Generals and Tiberium Wars). We see on site base building and vehicle fabrication as a local Commander builds his forces up for a mission. But have any of you actually thought about the technology required to do that? There are clearly two different methods given the time frame of each universe.

For Act of War and Act of Aggression series I hypothesize rapid assembly of prefabricated materials and components with the use of heavy automation to build up faster than otherwise would be normal but not in the scale of minutes or seconds like in the game. So everything is built on site and rapidly assembled in the field during a deployment. I would consider this to be true for both Act of War and Command and Conquer Generals.

When we start getting into settings like Tiberium Wars we take that up to an extreme notch and add in resource collection from Local Tiberium fields. On site fabrication and assembly now becomes possible with advanced robotic automation and the use of nanotechnology assembly. GDI is highly automated and modular and thus capable of rapid construction and fielding of high tech/high powered units in a fraction of the time even Act of War and C&C Generals would not be capable of. The wonders of advanced technology and having abundant local resources on hand.

Thoughts?

 

[GoldRanger]

Isn't that just convenient game mechanics, and we're supposed to assume that in the game's "reality" either a much longer time than we experienced has passed, or that in "actuality" the units were not constructed on site but brought from outside as reinforcements?

 

[Spartan303]

To some extent, yes. But my question was 'what if'. What if the Technology was real.

 

[GoldRanger]

Then we'll live in a world similar in concept to Total Annihilation, where if a total war were to erupt, the warring sides would very rapidly exhaust the resources of the planet while throwing a LOT of shit at each other, like locusts.

 

[Spartan303]

Then we'll live in a world similar in concept to Total Annihilation, where if a total war were to erupt, the warring sides would very rapidly exhaust the resources of the planet while throwing a LOT of shit at each other, like locusts.

While true, this is more of a question of how the technology would work.

 

[Marduk]

They are a way of handwaving away RTS production mechanics. Lore wise, C&C and many others are kind of schizotech if they try that, as societies with such insanely good industrial technology would be ridiculously rich by our standards.
That's why many later games have switched to a "requisition" mechanics or something like that instead of trying to explain on-site manufacturing which only some sci fi settings can properly integrate into their lore.

 

[Scottty]

Playing those "build a base" RTS-type games always feels a bit like running an insect colony to me.
In the original Dune 2 game, the Spice Harvesting was the original point, and building a militia was for defense.

In StarCraft, the Zerg come close to the basic idea - colony grows and produces special worker and soldier units.
The Protoss are perhaps the closest to a "realistic" military, in that they don't really build much on the battlefield, they "warp in" pre-prepared units.

 

[Scottty]

While true, this is more of a question of how the technology would work.

Slower than in the game. Ever played Stronghold? Basically one builds up a medieval village around one's castle. Attacks by enemies are one of the possible set scenarios.

 

[Battlegrinder]

The big issue that those games tend to skip over is personal (aside from supreme commander and a few others, where all sides are explicitly just a bunch of robots), it's almost always faster to build equipment than it is to train soldiers to use it. It doesn't matter how many tanks you build, you need crews to man them, and the training for those guys is going to be far more of a bottleneck than building tanks.

So as far as war itself goes, I don't see it being all that different. Sure, it might drag on a bit longer because armies are resistant to attrition (of material assets, at least), and lines of communication will evolve weirdly, but otherwise I don't think it would change a great deal.

 

[Scottty]

The big issue that those games tend to skip over is personal (aside from supreme commander and a few others, where all sides are explicitly just a bunch of robots), it's almost always faster to build equipment than it is to train soldiers to use it. It doesn't matter how many tanks you build, you need crews to man them, and the training for those guys is going to be far more of a bottleneck than building tanks.

So as far as war itself goes, I don't see it being all that different. Sure, it might drag on a bit longer because armies are resistant to attrition (of material assets, at least), and lines of communication will evolve weirdly, but otherwise I don't think it would change a great deal.

Hence my point about the Protoss. They don't train Zealots on the battlefield at all - they warp them in from elsewhere.

 

[Despite]

Isn't that just convenient game mechanics, and we're supposed to assume that in the game's "reality" either a much longer time than we experienced has passed, or that in "actuality" the units were not constructed on site but brought from outside as reinforcements?

Depends on the game. You can also end up with a game where it has gone on long enough that the handy game mechanic to avoid explaining where all the tanks came from has now become the reality of the setting.

Starcraft and C&C both ended up with this happening, but usually they don't dig too deep into it.

 

[Sea Skimmer]

I think Islamic State got about 9000% further actually doing this then anyone would have rationally predicted. Especially the way they prefabricated armor sections for suicide bomb trucks, then assembled them close to the target areas to reduce losses to air attacks, and to make the whole idea rather less dangerous since literally driving around a suicide bomb over a major distance is a frigging bad idea (also mechanical breakdowns from overloading). Plus the oil refineries powering it all which consisted of literally boiling drums of crude oil fueled by asphalt fires. Actually not much different then typical oil refineries world wide in ~1900, though those usually used coal for heat.

But you really can't get that far with this idea in the modern day, because if you go look at just how much supply chain it takes to make electronics, and create all the materials to fabricate them at all, no way are you packing that into a mobile platform. Portable assembly is plausible , but not fully manufacturing, and if you aren't building from scratch, then why bother if you've actually got super advanced technology and lots of money. It will be far easier to ship in assembled stuff. Advanced additive manufacturing in theory could let you make some very complex weapons in the field, but only so long as they are all metal and plastic, no semi conductor.

Back in WW2 the US did actually break down many thousands of trucks for shipment overseas, but this system actually caused a lot of problems (mismatched parts, poor packaging ect...) and was functionally negated once people began building RO-RO type ships.

The 3D printing concrete buildings concept is showing some real promise though, so pop up bases may well become an actual long term reality.

 

[Doomsought]

Isn't that just convenient game mechanics, and we're supposed to assume that in the game's "reality" either a much longer time than we experienced has passed, or that in "actuality" the units were not constructed on site but brought from outside as reinforcements?

It is for C&C generals, but its only slightely longer in the red Alert and Tiberium continuities.

For Sup-com and Total Anihilation it is actually real time. I'm not sure of Planetary Annihilation due to the planet sizes being abstracted.

Supreme Commander is fully capable of building everything ex-nihilo.

 

[GoldRanger]

For Sup-com and Total Anihilation it is actually real time. I'm not sure of Planetary Annihilation due to the planet sizes being abstracted.

Supreme Commander is fully capable of building everything ex-nihilo.

Oh I'm fully aware about those two, but I thought they are rather the exception in real time strategy games.

Hell, analysis of the opening cutscene of TA shows that the in game building times are actually slowed down compared to the game's "reality".

 

[Aaron Fox]

Actually, in the Act of War games, practically all the equipment is shipped in or getting guys geared up one way or another. Act of Aggression decided to use CnC style in-sit on-site unit construction.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

Well, I just remembered something, but didn't the Brotherhood of Nod literally fly in gear in Tiberium Dawn?

 

[Aaron Fox]

Well, I just remembered something, but didn't the Brotherhood of Nod literally fly in gear in Tiberium Dawn?

Yep, and only started using their own war factories when the atmospheric conditions made that far harder than it was.

 

[khatun]

Yep, and only started using their own war factories when the atmospheric conditions made that far harder than it was.

You could see it in Renegade really well whenever they had to spawn in a vehicle, plane would come in and anyone unfortunate enough to be on the landing strip at the time would get pasted by the vehicle rolling out on an automatic path until it rolled to a stop. Then I think in Tiberium Wars they kind of switched up the aesthetic from 'build-on-site' to 'subterranean' with how their war factory worked? Could've been a combination of both though.

Nod barracks in renegade also had subterranean training zones which kind of implied in one mission that Nod would happily just, kidnap civilians and toss them through a quick indoctrination program, shove them in armor, and then throw them at GDI frontlines if they ever got short of manpower, too.