What if Vladimir Lenin would have been assassinated in Switzerland sometime before 1917 by some Swiss citizen who would have had an omen that Lenin and his followers would do extraordinarily bad things to Russia if they were to ever actually come to power there? What would the subsequent effects of this have been on Russian history, World War I, German history, and world history in general?
Vladimir Lenin is assassinated in Switzerland sometime before 1917
- Thread starter WolfBear
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@raharris1973 Any thoughts on this? One would think that this thread would have gotten much more views considering that Lenin is literally one of the most influential people ever for the 20th century. Could anyone have actually filled his place in his absence and do what he did?
An interesting article about what might have been:
The Real Lenin: Traitor, Parasite, Failure
There is a general consensus that Stalin was a sadistic tyrant. But the ghost of his predecessor remains 'handshakeworthy' on the left hand side of the political spectrum. The SWPLy bobos of Seattle, who would not have been long for the Communist world, erected a statue to him in the city...
www.unz.com
sillygoose
Well-known member
Not sure anyone could really replace Lenin; Trotsky was a late comer to the group that infiltrated Russia in 1917.
Does the Russian Provisional Government survive? Or is it replaced by something else, such as a pan-socialist Soviet government rather than an exclusively Bolshevik Soviet government?
sillygoose
Well-known member
Ok, so I was incorrect, Trotsky was a major figure in the October Revolution:
en.wikipedia.org
Question is can he rise to power without Lenin, since it was Lenin who argued most forcefully for an armed revolt after the Kornilov Affair. The vote was 10-2 in favor. Perhaps Trotsky simply replaces Lenin in this case and because the major figure of the revolution? Seems though like Lenin was the figure who had the best support for actually leading the government rather than Trotsky who was the main military figure. Seems like a lot of variables and not knowing the details around the revolution and aftermath it is really had for me to have an opinion.
Leon Trotsky - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Question is can he rise to power without Lenin, since it was Lenin who argued most forcefully for an armed revolt after the Kornilov Affair. The vote was 10-2 in favor. Perhaps Trotsky simply replaces Lenin in this case and because the major figure of the revolution? Seems though like Lenin was the figure who had the best support for actually leading the government rather than Trotsky who was the main military figure. Seems like a lot of variables and not knowing the details around the revolution and aftermath it is really had for me to have an opinion.
Ok, so I was incorrect, Trotsky was a major figure in the October Revolution:
Leon Trotsky - Wikipedia
Question is can he rise to power without Lenin, since it was Lenin who argued most forcefully for an armed revolt after the Kornilov Affair. The vote was 10-2 in favor. Perhaps Trotsky simply replaces Lenin in this case and because the major figure of the revolution? Seems though like Lenin was the figure who had the best support for actually leading the government rather than Trotsky who was the main military figure. Seems like a lot of variables and not knowing the details around the revolution and aftermath it is really had for me to have an opinion.
Trotsky opposed Brest-Litovsk, though, so even if he's actually able to launch a successful revolution in Lenin's place, the Germans could subsequently quickly overthrow the new Russian Bolshevik government once it becomes clear that the Bolsheviks aren't actually interested in making peace with Germany.
Also, off-topic, but can you please respond to this thread of mine? :
https://www.the-sietch.com/index.php?threads/franz-ferdinand-dies-of-tuberculosis-in-the-1890s.7284/
Thank you.
BTW, @sillygoose What would have been the odds of some Marxist vigilantes eventually murdering the person who murdered Lenin in this TL?
Lenin was coward send by germans with 20 dudes - revolution was win by Trocky send by Wall Street with band of thugs.Sink ship on which they sailed,and then you change something.
sillygoose
Well-known member
Wall Street didn't Jacob Schiff did because he hated the Czar. He actually also financed the Japanese war against the Czar in 1904-05 in revenge for the Pogroms starting in 1903.
Jacob Schiff - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Not sure how accurate this essay is, but it came up on google and has a lot of details about the Schiff-Trotsky connection:
Wall Street didn't Jacob Schiff did because he hated the Czar. He actually also financed the Japanese war against the Czar in 1904-05 in revenge for the Pogroms starting in 1903.
Jacob Schiff - Wikipedia
But it says here that Schiff disliked Lenin and Trotsky?
sillygoose
Well-known member
It claims that, but supposedly his grandson said he financed the return of Trotsky to Russia. US military intelligence had a file on this and blamed Jewish financiers for the Bolshevik Revolution. I think that any Jewish financier funding for the Bolsheviks was more to topple the Czar and ensure Jews were protected (the Czarist army was targeting Jews during the war both in CP territory and in Russia), which the Provisional Government did; the problem was the Bolsheviks were able to take advantage of the situation in October and were able to seize power unexpectedly, but I highly doubt that was part of the plan to get the Czar out and liberalize Russia.
I edited my previous post with more info.
Thanks! Will check out!
sillygoose
Well-known member
Sorry, I edited the last post too, I thought quickly enough before you read it, but I guess not.
Thanks; I have read it right now.