johnreiter
Well-known member
This was inspired by the short story "Eutopia" by Poul Anderson, specifically the world of Westland which he describes. Briefly, it is a world were both the Eastern and Western Roman Empires fell, and Western civilization grew entirely from Germanic and Slavic roots with little-or-no Latin or Greek influences.
I love the setting, but I didn't like the POD, which was that the Arabs captured Constantinople in 718. To me, this is too late, and also more likely to lead to a Muslim dominated world. So I tracked down a POD which I liked better, and then roughed out a timeline describing how the Eastern Roman Empire could fall in the 5th century at the same time as the Western Roman Empire.
the POD is in 447 AD. Attila the Hun is sacking the Balkans, and making his way to Constantinople. Normally, the Huns would be no threat to the city, due to it's unbreachable walls. However, this year a violent earthquake has collapsed part of the walls, leaving the city vulnerable. IOTL, Attila did not reach Constantinople in time to take advantage of this. Flavius Zeno delayed him while Flavius Constantinus rebuilt the walls. ITTL, Attila is able to quickly crush Zeno in a decisive battle, and then reaches Constantinople where there are still huge gaps in the walls. The Huns sack the city, and then force the citizens to raze the walls so that they will have no protection against future attacks.
In 449, Emperor Marcian (who came to the throne earlier ITTL due to the events of the sack) sponsors revolts against the Huns by the Ostrogoths and Gepids, and begins trying to rebuild the walls. However, these revolts are quickly crushed, and the outraged Attila sweeps over the Balkans again, taking everything, and sacking Constantinople a second time, worse than the first, killing Marcian. Later, while drunkenly celebrating his victory, Attila dies from a blood clot in his brain, and the Hunnic Empire devolves into chaos.
Over the next 15 years, problems hail down on the Byzantines. The Ostrogoths, Rugians, Sciri, Heruli, and Gepids all rise up in revolt, claiming land for themselves. Aspar the Alan soon seizes power in Constantinople, deposing the current weak, puppet emperor, and proclaims himself King of Greece. Zeno the Isaurian refuses to acknowledge his rule and leads a revolt in Asia Minor. The Persians take advantage of Byzantine weakness and invade from the East. The pagan Blemmyes invade Egypt, sacking and pillaging, but Bishop Dioscorus I is able to seize power in Alexandria and use his considerable influence to organize a defense, becoming the de facto ruler of lower Egypt.
What would the future of this timeline look like? There will be no conquests of Justinian the Great, probably no Council of Chalcedon, and no Papal States. The Persian Wars will be more of a Persian stomp, since there is no organized resistance against them. OTOH, Persia may suffer their own Barbarian invasions, since Byzantium no longer exists as a barrier to protect them from the chaos in Europe. And what would happen to the Muslim conquest ITTL? Would they still be able to conquer Persia, it was not weakened by years of war with the Romans?
I love the setting, but I didn't like the POD, which was that the Arabs captured Constantinople in 718. To me, this is too late, and also more likely to lead to a Muslim dominated world. So I tracked down a POD which I liked better, and then roughed out a timeline describing how the Eastern Roman Empire could fall in the 5th century at the same time as the Western Roman Empire.
the POD is in 447 AD. Attila the Hun is sacking the Balkans, and making his way to Constantinople. Normally, the Huns would be no threat to the city, due to it's unbreachable walls. However, this year a violent earthquake has collapsed part of the walls, leaving the city vulnerable. IOTL, Attila did not reach Constantinople in time to take advantage of this. Flavius Zeno delayed him while Flavius Constantinus rebuilt the walls. ITTL, Attila is able to quickly crush Zeno in a decisive battle, and then reaches Constantinople where there are still huge gaps in the walls. The Huns sack the city, and then force the citizens to raze the walls so that they will have no protection against future attacks.
In 449, Emperor Marcian (who came to the throne earlier ITTL due to the events of the sack) sponsors revolts against the Huns by the Ostrogoths and Gepids, and begins trying to rebuild the walls. However, these revolts are quickly crushed, and the outraged Attila sweeps over the Balkans again, taking everything, and sacking Constantinople a second time, worse than the first, killing Marcian. Later, while drunkenly celebrating his victory, Attila dies from a blood clot in his brain, and the Hunnic Empire devolves into chaos.
Over the next 15 years, problems hail down on the Byzantines. The Ostrogoths, Rugians, Sciri, Heruli, and Gepids all rise up in revolt, claiming land for themselves. Aspar the Alan soon seizes power in Constantinople, deposing the current weak, puppet emperor, and proclaims himself King of Greece. Zeno the Isaurian refuses to acknowledge his rule and leads a revolt in Asia Minor. The Persians take advantage of Byzantine weakness and invade from the East. The pagan Blemmyes invade Egypt, sacking and pillaging, but Bishop Dioscorus I is able to seize power in Alexandria and use his considerable influence to organize a defense, becoming the de facto ruler of lower Egypt.
What would the future of this timeline look like? There will be no conquests of Justinian the Great, probably no Council of Chalcedon, and no Papal States. The Persian Wars will be more of a Persian stomp, since there is no organized resistance against them. OTOH, Persia may suffer their own Barbarian invasions, since Byzantium no longer exists as a barrier to protect them from the chaos in Europe. And what would happen to the Muslim conquest ITTL? Would they still be able to conquer Persia, it was not weakened by years of war with the Romans?
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